who says you HAVE TO have an f-style for bluegrass?!

[fentonjames]

who says you HAVE to have an f-style for bluegrass? didn't stop sam! great video of sam, tony and courtney from 1971!

[june39]

That A5 conversion didn't last much past that 1971 picture with the arrival of the '37 F5.

[Mike Bunting]

who says you HAVE to have an f-style for bluegrass?

Nobody.

[Jeff Hildreth]

F Styles for Bluegrass are mandated by wishing to belong. Gilchrist told me personally there is no playability or tonal difference between an A-5 and an F-5. He admits he quit building A-5s and concentrated on F-5s because of very limited additional work for a massive increase in remuneration. He said he personally preferred playing the A-5.

I have owned and played F-5s... since my lessons with Tiny Moore ( way back when) I dumped F-5s.

F-5s Weren't designed, or built, for "bluegrass", blue grass did not exist.

[Bill Bradshaw]

Nobody.

You beat me to it.

Bill

[Mike Bunting]

You beat me to it.

Bill

[Bill Baldridge]

Lots of bodies, but so what?

[Cue Zephyr]

Nobody says so. But Bill had one so I want one too.

[greg_tsam]

Nobody says so. But Bill had one so I want one too.

Besides that the scrolls are so, so, pretty. Maybe one day I'll actually buy one.

[Willie Poole]

Quite a few professionals played A models, Red Rector, Tim O`Brian, Jesse Brock...But two of those have switched to F models now just to be in with the majority I guess, F models are easier balanced too, at least mine are compared to my A model, could be where the strap is attached.....All in all I guess it is just a status symbol because Monroe played an F model, that's good enough for me....

If it sounds good what difference does it make?

Willie

[jso]

F models are easier balanced too, at least mine are compared to my A model, could be where the strap is attached.....Willie

Cant an A model have the strap attached in more or less the same place, with a loop around the fretboard projection?

[fatt-dad]

I saw Sam play an A5 in 1973.

f-d

[allenhopkins]

Same video in this current thread.

[CES]

Cant an A model have the strap attached in more or less the same place, with a loop around the fretboard projection?

Unless the fretboard isn't elevated, as is the case with my Silverangel econo and my Flatiron 1N. Flatiron has a Strap button on the heel, which I like OK, though it can get a bit crowded with the guitar strap that's on it now. I need to make a ore appropriate strap for that thing...Easter weekend project!

That said, I kind of like the strap attached to the headstock...played with the strap guitar style I think it's a bit more balanced than my F style over the scroll...

[Rex Hart]

F Styles for Bluegrass are mandated by wishing to belong. Gilchrist told me personally there is no playability or tonal difference between an A-5 and an F-5..

Not to disagree with Mr Gilchrist....but I disagree. I for one can tell a tonal difference in let's say a Collings MT and their F5. I can also tell the difference in an A9 and an F9. Not saying better, just different.

[ralph johansson]

Not to disagree with Mr Gilchrist....but I disagree. I for one can tell a tonal difference in let's say a Collings MT and their F5. I can also tell the difference in an A9 and an F9. Not saying better, just different.

IIRC the top of the MT is in Engelmann, that of the MF5 is Adirondack.

Most notable in the video is Bush's right hand technique, fairly standard. I understand he changed to his present technique (lots of forearm motion) because of an accident.

And the most important thing about the F shape is not the scroll but the points.

[AlanN]

To me, the 'feel' of an F-5 is way different than an A model. I'm so used to an F-5 - the way it hangs, sits on my person when I'm playing it, when I'm getting in close to swing it out of the way to get a gorgeous vocal blend going with the lead singer. If I were to regularly play an A model, I'd likely get used to that, too. I won't touch the sound thing, as I am not nearly as skilled as the many august builders to make a qualified statement about that. The status thing? Has absolutely no bearing for me.

[tkdboyd]

"who says you HAVE TO have an f-style for bluegrass?!"
I do, but no one listens to me...I think my wife has convinced everyone to just ignore the things I say! :-)

Seriously though when standing and playing I like the balance of an F over an A. But given the opportunity to have top shelf A's I would not hesitate to have a few but there is a "almost 3 year old" that is taking most of my fun-funds!

[Dave Greenspoon]

For years Statman made excellent 'grass on his Gibby A. After noodling around for a while on a Kimble F-5, he settled on a Kimble 2 point. Jethro Burns is best known for jazz but could pick bluegrass with the best of them on his A-5. IMO, it's more about the player pulling out the sounds s/he wants than it is anything else. The idea about "belonging" is right on the mark: the bluegrass police seem to have forgotten that even Bill played other instruments.Grisman's Tone Poems 1 booklet has an image of the cover of Bluegrass Country Songs from the early 50's with Mr. Monroe holding an Epiphone Strand two-pointer. I've heard from lots of folks--players and builders--that they prefer the balance and heft of the A style over the F. So, at the end of the day...make music that makes you happy, and ignore the naysayers who don't.

[GuitarDogs62]

I own an F-Style Mandolin because I think they are simply beautiful. I am also going to purchase in the near future an A- Style Mandolin as well. I am looking at Eastman. Now far as playing Bluegrass is something I am already doing. I play my F-style because as of right now it is all that I own. When I get my A Style will I use it for Bluegrass, oh yes I will. To me I am understanding more and more that it is all about the sound of the mandolin and not the style (A or F) that really matters. A Style mandolins are beautiful and F-style just a tad better looking. All I want anymore when playing is sound and comfort. I do not care which style I play with and feel more now than ever either will my Bluegrass group and the audiance that see's me on stage. Once they hear the music and then hear a beautiful Mandolin being played clean and well done that they will be captured into the music and not what style of mandolin I am playing. If I am judged on my Mandolin by type (A or F) instead of judgimg me on my playing, then they can go take a long hike off a short peer. What I have learned over the past two years is that mandolins are fun and they are a beautiful instruments. They can be played slow and very pretty or fast and sharp. Mandolins are truly very special instruments that have a special place in my heart. It's not about the style, it's about the sound and the person playing it. After that then to me it's about style and what I find to be beautiful as my own personal preferance. Let me hear a mandolin that sounds beautiful being played by someone else and you will make my head turn and I will appreciate what you are playing.

[Mike Bunting]

To me, the 'feel' of an F-5 is way different than an A model. I'm so used to an F-5 - the way it hangs, sits on my person when I'm playing it, when I'm getting in close to swing it out of the way to get a gorgeous vocal blend going with the lead singer. If I were to regularly play an A model, I'd likely get used to that, too. I won't touch the sound thing, as I am not nearly as skilled as the many august builders to make a qualified statement about that. The status thing? Has absolutely no bearing for me.

After playing F's since the mid 70's, Givens, Collings and a Stanley, I finally went foe a n A, this time a Duff A5. I just looped a strap through the fretboard extension. I found that it balances just fine, I've noticed no difference in the feel of the two styles. I've also come to see the the design of the A as very simple and elegant and very appealing to me. As for the sound, it suffices to say that it is superlative, but then,it is a Duff.

[Phil Goodson]

We hear, over and over, that the 'bluegrass police' say you have to play an F model to play bluegrass.
I've been in many, many jams, and perhaps I've just been lucky not to see the ugly stuff, but I've NEVER seen anyone berate any player because of the style of mandolin he played. Berated for poor rhythm, playing jam-busters, playing too loud, being obnoxious, etc., yeah. But never because of mandolin choice.

I love F models and prefer them to A models (even though I have and play some). But it's not because 'Bill played one' (I knew almost nothing about Monroe till well into mando playing).

I just love the beautiful design of the F and the way it looks and feels when I play it. Can't help it; that's just the way it is. Has nothing to do with Bill or with Bluegrass. I don't think I'm totally alone.

[Mike Bunting]

They are watching you!

[AlanN]

Has nothing to do with Bill or with Bluegrass

I dunno, Phil. I'd like to believe that (or not, doesn't really matter), too. But the bottom line is most bluegrass mandolin styling is associated/pictured with an F-5 type instrument, from the early days until present. Yes, know about the Jimmy Martin F-4; yes, know about Red Rector et al. And since Bill Monroe was really the main man for some time before the rest caught up, he influenced instrument choice, either implicilty or explicitly.

I started out with an A (affordable, available), the natural progression (for me, at least) was to gravitate toward an F-5. It was the thing to strive for. I think the early cats - Bobby, Doyle, Grisman, Sam, etc. - followed the same muse.

[Beanzy]

The places & way I play no one could hear a tonal difference, but if I were playing an F style they'd probabaly think I was playing in a more bluegrass style and was more committed to the genre than I am.
I still can't convince myself to put it higer up my list of "next mandolins to buy". (note the plural )
If I played in a band for money then I would lay out on a good one fairly quickly just because it's expected.

Anyway that's by the by, it was only a throway line the OP posted to get us to look at the awesomness of a young Sam B's playing.