Need quick thoughts on: Reischman, Stiernberg, Lichtenberg

[belbein]

I have an opportunity to take a week of courses with John Reischman, Don Stiernberg and Caterina Lichtenberg.

These are not alternatives, so it wouldn't help to hear "Take A over B." This week of courses will cost a pretty penny, and if one or more are ... let us say, not premier teachers, I will be able to benefit costs and benefits.

I already know the value of a week of courses with like-minded people. I'm just trying to figure out if any of these teachers will be less than optimal.

Thanks in advance. (If you prefer to give me your thoughts privately, please PM me!) Unfortunately, I pretty much need to make up my mind today or Sunday.

[djweiss]

I've spent time with Don Stiernberg at the Mandolin Symposium over a few years, and found much of the information invaluable. He's a wealth of knowledge. The others, I'm sure, are the same.

In my experience, don't expect immediate gratification. You'll ideas and concepts and study material to last a long time, and the only way to put it to use and gain traction is to practice!

[sgarrity]

Reischman and Stiernberg are both excellent teachers. I've never been in a workshop with Catarina but she is a very talented musician. I'd jump on that opportunity in a heartbeat!

[Marc Berman]

If you are talking about the Swannanoa Gathering you left out Mike Marshall. As for the three you mentioned I've been to camps with John and Don and I feel they are excellent teachers. I have met Caterina and based on my conversations with her and her background in teaching mandolin at the university level I would think she would also be a fine teacher.

[UsuallyPickin]

Two thumbs up for Reischman and Stiernberg ... both are excellent teachers ..... I have not had a workshop w/ Ms. Lichtenberg as I am not particularly interested in classical music or playing it on a mandolin. From those who have attended her classes I have heard that she is an excellent teacher and her workshops build one upon another. So if you do not learn and understand what went on yesterday you will not be able to understand what is going on today. Reading music well will also I expect be a big help in her class.... If you are serious about classical mandolin this is an opportunity not to be passed up. ...... Swannanoa?

[GKWilson]

What are you looking for belbein?
Each of these teachers are among the very best of their styles.
John usually teaches a beg/int Bluegrass or more advanced int/adv Monroe style class.
Being a full week you may get it all.
I even took a Latin style class from him once.
Don will numb your brain with chords, chord and fretboard theory.
Both will send you home with enough homework for the rest of the year.
And they are both the nicest men I've ever met.
Like the posters above I haven't taken classes with Caterina.
But, I'm sure she is a very good teacher. Most European classical players teach
all week. Then play concerts on weekends.
So, what's the answer belbein? Bluegrass, Swing, Classical?

[belbein]

So, what's the answer belbein? Bluegrass, Swing, Classical?

Rap, actually. I'm going to be the first middle-aged, bearded, balding, mandolin-playing Gangsta Rappa, yo.

[belbein]

you left out Mike Marshall

Marshall's classes are full. I'm sure that if I hadn't waited about two months after the catalog came out, I might'a stood a chance. Oh well, there's next year.

[bigskygirl]

Was at camp with Reischman and Stiernberg and they were both great. I'm sure you won't be disappointed with either.

[johnparrott]

Workshop choices/bang for the buck...Belbein, consider what it must have been like to try and learn mandolin before there were such workshops, and before there were such great players to choose from...when the risk of having "less than optimal" teachers wasn't an issue. Some of the most admired mandolin players got their start without the workshop experience you're about to enjoy. How did they do it?

With giants like these to choose from, "What kind of student am I?" seems like the better question to ponder. "Grateful" might come to mind.

Enjoy!

[OldSausage]

They all specialize in different genres, can't imagine any of those three are hopeless duffers. My choices would be all about the genre.

[jmagill]

Just wanted to say that, in addition to those mentioned, we've also got Emory Lester, David Surette and Matt Flinner.

[GKWilson]

WOW. What a great lineup Jim.
But I don't think belbein ever stated where he was going.
Could be the Symposium.
Gary

[GKWilson]

OOPS. Checked and Reischman won't be at the Symposium.

[belbein]

Workshop choices/bang for the buck...Belbein, consider what it must have been like to try and learn mandolin before there were such workshops, and before there were such great players to choose from...when the risk of having "less than optimal" teachers wasn't an issue. Some of the most admired mandolin players got their start without the workshop experience you're about to enjoy. How did they do it?

With giants like these to choose from, "What kind of student am I?" seems like the better question to ponder. "Grateful" might come to mind.

Enjoy!

Really? I mean, really really? You have to be kidding me.

I should be "grateful" for the chance to spend $1000--the equivalent of the average American's monthly wage--for an opportunity to take a course with people whose reputation I don't know? So grateful that I should not dare to ask a question if it's worth it? So grateful that I should wallow in the dirt and moan, "Am I worthy, am I worthy?"

Please. An educated and intelligent consumer always asks: Is the money I'm going to spend worth it? The idea that we should feel grateful that someone is willing to offer a product or service is absurd.

Beyond that, I'm sure many of us have taken workshop courses, taught by leading lights of their instruments, that weren't worth a tinker's damn. I don't need to spend a stack of bills to hear a bunch of big shots telling war stories about the time they were recording with Jerry, or how they're responsible for Chris being who he is, or how they introduced all the members of XYZ Group to each other. All great musicians aren't great teachers. And they aren't all nice people. So I think my question was a reasonable one and an intelligent one.

So I'm just perplexed at the tenor of your response. "Grateful" my axx!

PS: Thanks to everyone else for providing thoughtful and useful responses.

[Brandon Flynn]

I'll echo what a few others said: looks like a genre choice. Bluegrass, Jazz, or Classical, more or less.

Haven't taken lessons from any of those guys, but Jim mentioned Flinner above, if you are going to Swannanoa. I was one of his mandolin students for 2 years while I went to school and traveled from Chattanooga to Nashville to take lessons from him. Not sure what he may be teaching at this workshop, but he is a good teacher, super personable guy, and more than able to teach multiple genres. Gave me some good advice and learning on moving forward with developing improv (I still haven't put in all the practice needed to really start to reap the benefits!).

[belbein]

I'm curious about the "genre choice" thing. Do y'all really find it's that necessary to stick to one genre? My feeling has always been that a good teacher can teach me things about my instrument even if they play a different genre than I like. And I don't really stick to one genre, anyway: I'll play old time, classical, bluegrass, blues ... it's probably a reflection of my lack of musical education, but it just seems like music's music, and a mandolin is a mandolin. But maybe I'm missing something.

[Brandon Flynn]

Well, you can learn from any genre, and in my opinion that is healthiest musically. It's an issue of practicality. For this particular week of instruction, considering which genre you'd like more insight into sooner might help you make a decision.

My surface evaluation of what each genre tends to bring to these types of instructional situations--Bluegrass: improv and musical vocabulary within the style; Jazz: theory, improv and musical vocabulary within the style; Classical: technique and musical literature within the style.
This is a little simplistic though; each workshop would probably address technique in some way.

I personally am very cosmopolitan in my studies, but I think the effect has been that while I play a wide variety of genres and have some genuine enjoyment of each, I have not really mastered any of them and truly internalized their musical vocabulary and stylistic features. I'm now trying to focus in on some areas in some level of isolation to try and fix that.

[JeffD]

I'm curious about the "genre choice" thing. Do y'all really find it's that necessary to stick to one genre? My feeling has always been that a good teacher can teach me things about my instrument even if they play a different genre than I like. .

Absolutely, but they have specialized talents. So while Don Stiernberg, for example, could likely help you with chop chords, you would be really missing an opportunity if you didn't get some jazz insights.

I think its a wonderful opportunity. Well worth a months wages. All three are world class musicians, recognized in their specialties as being at the top, and I would guess are great if not excellent teachers. I know from Don's posts here that he is a real good explainer.

Yea, I am going to have to disagree with you belbein. I would be grateful that an opportunity existed at any price to take instruction from these folks in particular. Others maybe not so much, but these three... yea grateful.

In my regular life I get to take instruction from world class talents roughly zero times a year.

[belbein]

Yea, I am going to have to disagree with you belbein.

Really. Don't feel bad about it. It's not all that unusual.

In my regular life I get to take instruction from world class talents roughly zero times a year.

I've been lucky enough on four occasions with music, and a half a dozen in other areas, to "take instruction from world class talents." Some of those folks are great teachers. Some of them are great to meet, nice to chat with, fun to listen to--but I wouldn't want to take instruction from them. I won't mention any names, but some "world class talents" are just anal sphincters when it comes to teaching. In fact, in my experience, 50% of the time "world class talent" translates into "world class ego," which does not translate into "good teacher."

But y'all have convinced me that these particular guys are good, so I've gone ahead and signed up. Thanks for the input.

[belbein]

Well, you can learn from any genre... I have not really mastered any of them

You make a GREAT point. I guess the truth is that when you're starting out, and then again at the other end of the spectrum when you're a "world class talent," that you can learn from anyone and apply it to everything you do. It's when you're in the great middle ground (clawing your way from proficient to good to excellent) that you have to buckle down and actually concentrate on a genre.

Luckily (!) not there yet.

PS: You aren't perhaps related to the "Mrs. Flynn" who taught English in SAISD in middle school in the late 60's/early 70's are you?

[Brandon Flynn]

You make a GREAT point. I guess the truth is that when you're starting out, and then again at the other end of the spectrum when you're a "world class talent," that you can learn from anyone and apply it to everything you do. It's when you're in the great middle ground (clawing your way from proficient to good to excellent) that you have to buckle down and actually concentrate on a genre.

Luckily (!) not there yet.

PS: You aren't perhaps related to the "Mrs. Flynn" who taught English in SAISD in middle school in the late 60's/early 70's are you?

Not that I'm aware. New to San Antonio.

[barney 59]

I've taken classes, I find that there is only so much that I can absorb at a time and the amount of information that one can get from ONE great player can put a lot of people on overload. I can't imagine doing three workshops at once. But--more power to you for trying! I took a workshop with Jethro Burns in 1983 that I'm still working at! I would suggest that you bring a recording devise. I think all of these players would be very good teachers, they've all done it a lot. Your not wrong to have some concerns about the quality of the teaching,it's your time and it's your money. Example: I have known Frank Wakefield for maybe 45 years, it was Frank that was the first person to put a mandolin in my hands and commanded me to get one for myself-- which,by the way, I promptly did. I love him dearly but a little while ago he was coming this way and was doing a workshop so I figured "why not" and it was a way to see say hello to Frank who I hadn't seen for some years. It was a couple of hour thing at a music shop and not much money. Not the commitment that a "Camp" requires. Frank is one of the greats of the great and you will always benefit by getting that close to a great player and it was a fun time but as for teaching? well, he didn't ever actually get around to that! I did get to brush up on talking backwards which comes in handy when dealing with banjo players. I would have probably been a bit disappointed if a lesson was the real reason I went.

[belbein]

Workshop choices/bang for the buck...Belbein, consider what it must have been like to try and learn mandolin before there were such workshops, and before there were such great players to choose from...when the risk of having "less than optimal" teachers wasn't an issue. Some of the most admired mandolin players got their start without the workshop experience you're about to enjoy. How did they do it?

With giants like these to choose from, "What kind of student am I?" seems like the better question to ponder. "Grateful" might come to mind.

Enjoy!

Johnparrot: I want to apologize for the tenor of my response to you. I was sort of an ... well, a sphincter. It's bothered me since I actually had time to reflect on it, and I decided that I don't want to be that nasty guy. I'm sorry for my intemperate remarks.

[AlanN]

Grateful and Fortunate come to mind. We are in the cusp of that time when many of the still-picking players we admire and love all learned on their own, either from watching their heroes on stage or slowing down the records to pick up the licks. This virtual classroom thing is very new. We want it all, now.

I took a 3-day class fom Butch B (RIP) in 1994...20 years ago now, Where Does The Good Times Go... Different era. He was one of the first to host a multi-day thing. He had Ronnie M, Mike C, Roland W come in and teach a bit. Even had Bill Monroe show up for one afternoon. There were probably 25 in the class. Cost was $250 for the learning. To manage the breadth of picker there - rank beginner to seasoned picker was tough. I absorbed a lot.

I would jump at the chance to study with JR, DS, MM, et al., particularly when the lesson time can be tailor-made to the picker. As a matter of fact, we are spending a week at the beach this summer, not far from where Alan Bibey lives. I may hook up with him to grab an afternoon lesson.