Worrying about my saddle tilting forward

[TheBlindBard]

Hello, all
I have an eastman md305 and I have been playing it for quite a while now and enjoying it. I haven't posted because I've been too busy playing!
But, to my question: I think my saddle is tilting forward. I feel the saddle towards the tailpiece and it has a wider gap than the part of the saddle facing the neck of the instrument. it's one of those compensated saddles, the ones that go back and forth like a snake. Is this normal? or should I try and adjust it?
I tried earlier to straighten it out by loosening the strings and tilting the saddle back, but when put under tension, it seems to have gone back to normal.
Any advice?
It's not hurting my playing, it just seemed a little bit off to me.

[Gene Summers]

Bard, That's the way they are made. It's called the "Eastman tilt" The MD305 is a good sounding instrument, btw, enjoy!

[Folkmusician.com]

If you are able to straiten the bridge with the strings loosened, it should be fine. You really need to do this under full tension. If done with the strings loose, as the strings are tuned, the bridge will be pulled forward. If you are not able to get the saddle at a 90 degree angle with the foot still getting good contact on the top, then the bridge may need some work.

[TheBlindBard]

.... ah, they are supposed to tilt? That's good, I feel happy thanks, guys.

[Michael Lewis]

No, they are not supposed to tilt. It's just that they often do. As Robert suggested, try to pull the top of the bridge back a bit.

All floating bridges (violin, viola, cello, bass, archtop guitar, banjo, mandolin, etc.) tend to rock forward as the strings are stretched up to pitch, so you have to keep an eye on the bridges and keep them sitting in the proper position. It goes with the 'territory'.

[Ivan Kelsall]

If you're not that familiar with bridges & their foibles,i'd slacken the strings of just enough to make the bridge easily moveable & then pull it back up so that it's as close to being perfectly vertical as you can get it & that there's no gap under the feet,front or back. If the bridge base (feet) seems vertical,but the saddle (top) is still leaning a tiny bit,that's fine,one of my mandolins is like that.All you need to do is to ensure that the bridge saddle is in the correct position.You can do that by checking the intonation on open strings & when the strings are fretted at the 12th fret.I usually just tune up a couple of strings to a note that my tuner recognises,they don't need to be up to pitch,just a 'proper' note. Having got the intonation correct,i tune all the strings up to pitch & then re-check.
As Michael Lewis says above,all 'floating' bridges act the same way = nothing to worry about,
Ivan

[Tobin]

.... ah, they are supposed to tilt? That's good, I feel happy thanks, guys.

No, they're not supposed to tilt. I think what Gene Summers was referring to was the fact that Eastmans tend to have the arch in the top of the mandolin in a peculiar position, causing the bridge to angle forward in relation to the strings, even when it is perpendicular to the top. Which is to say, the peak of the arch on the Eastmans is behind the bridge, and the bridge sits on the downhill slope, making it lean forward. This is different than having the saddle leaning forward with respect to the bridge base. The so-called "Eastman tilt" is normal for that mandolin, but the leaning saddle needs to be corrected.

The usual way to do this is, like Robert mentioned, simply pulling the saddle back with the strings under full tension. It needs to be done carefully, with the mandolin in your lap and the neck pointed away from you. You just put your thumbs on the rear of the bridge base (foot), and use your index fingers to pull the top of the saddle back. You have to do it firmly, but not too violently, or you'll risk moving the entire bridge or damaging something. You're just trying to straighten the saddle without moving the bridge or altering its contact with the mandolin's top. The tension of the strings, and the contact of the windings of the strings in the saddle grooves, will make it a bit difficult, and it will sound awful when it moves. It only moves a small fraction of an inch, but it can make a big difference in your intonation. You'll need to recheck the tuning and intonation after doing it, of course, to make sure it's correct.

[TheBlindBard]

The base of the bridge is seated pretty nicely on the body of the mandolin, it's just the saddle that is tilting. I'll go try and fix this later today. Part of me is scared to, because this is the only mandolin I have that plays really well and I am happy with.

[Tommcgtx]

The base of the bridge is seated pretty nicely on the body of the mandolin, it's just the saddle that is tilting. I'll go try and fix this later today. Part of me is scared to, because this is the only mandolin I have that plays really well and I am happy with.

I have a 305 also, and noticed the same thing. I've corrected it a few times like Tobin explains above, and had the same worries you do now. After doing it, it's surprisingly easy. Scary at first, but easy.

[Tom Haywood]

As Ivan suggested, loosen the strings some until you can stand the saddle straight up. Keep adjusting it there as you tighten the strings until they hold it in place. Normal procedure for string changes, etc.. Trying to move it under full tension without having any experience with what it should feel like is a recipe for breaking the bridge.

[Astro]

I tried to do this under full tension and I couldnt. Or maybe I just whimped out. So I slacked the string tension off halfway and did it and carefully retuned keeping the bridge straight as I went. I think I wound up straighter.

In regards to tilt, I think the idea is to get the surface of the top of the bridge on the same plane as the surface of the end of the fretboard rather than worrying about its relation to the surface of the soundboard (which may not be flat under the saddle of the Eastmans.) ?

[Gene Summers]

I tried to do this under full tension and I couldnt. Or maybe I just whimped out. So I slacked the string tension off halfway and did it and carefully retuned keeping the bridge straight as I went. I think I wound up straighter.

In regards to tilt, I think the idea is to get the surface of the top of the bridge on the same plane as the surface of the end of the fretboard rather than worrying about its relation to the surface of the soundboard (which may not be flat under the saddle of the Eastmans.) ?

There is an earlier post I made about the "Eastman top curve", you should read that thread. I believe the bridge will sit at an angle to the fretboard, and perpendicular to the top at the proper bridge position for intonation. Link is here:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...ighlight=curve

[Pete Jenner]

their foibles

Great word - foibles. I haven't heard it for ages - thanks Ivan.

[TheBlindBard]

Yeah, I really don't want to break the bridge. I'm going to leave it for now, the instrument plays fine.
Thank you all for easing my fears
Happy playing, guys.

[Ivan Kelsall]

You can get ointment for them as well Peter - dreadful things,foibles !. It reminds me of a work's colleague of mine when he told me & a few other workmates,that he had 'Asteroids'. We said ''you've got haemorrhoids ?'' - he said, '' you haven't seen the size of 'em !!'' (not really),
Ivan

[David Houchens]

Theres no reason for the bridge not to sit 'straight up" no matter where on the arch it sets. I realize many don't, but to my thinking, its not the best way to get even pressure on the front and back of the base. My earlier mandolins had the arch a little back of the intonation point. I fit the bridges to sit basically 90 degrees to the body binding. The ones I've seen are still sitting that way. If the saddle can tilt on the base, back and forth, I would suggest a new bridge. Or just the saddle. If the holes in the saddle are reamed to the proper size for the post, there will be no movement. If it is worn, I would replace it.
I know this sounds extreme, but with all the worries people have about getting the best sound out of their mandolins, I would think a sound, stable bridge would be desired.

[Stephen Perry]

Easy and least effective: burp saddle back often
More effective: Differential bevel on saddle seating surfact
More more effective: Refit bridge with some back lean and differential bevel
Most effective: Put a decent bridge on.

[wag1943]

the saddle part of the bridge on my 615 mandolin slanted forward
so i decided ti get a cumberland ,,, when i took the original of i found that the holes for the adjuster s were a good bit bigger than the bolts that allowed the saddle to tip forward , i think this also caused the bridge to slant forward to ... if you can understand what i just wrote your a better man than me lol

[Willie Poole]

B.B. Also if you like to run the bridge at a higher level it will tend to make the saddle lean forward...Now here is what I do and some may not approve of a novice trying it but what better way to learn about small things to do to a mandolin...I take a pair of pliers and install some tape on the grooves of the pliers and then while the bridge is under pressure I clamp onto the center of the bridge saddle and tilt it back towards the tailpiece, just apply a slight pressure at first and increase it until it tilts...The biggest thing is to make sure the base of the bridge is in good contact with the top of the sound board, take a close look at the base and see if it shows any place where it isn`t touching, sometimes that is hard to see...As noted above the holes where the post go through the saddle might be too large for the post, that is a different ball game...

Good luck, if you do buy a CA or replacement bridge try and find a good repairman to install it for you and ask him to show you exactly what he is doing so the next time you will be able to give it a try, AND there will be a next time...

Willie

[Brandon Sumner]

I had A MD 505 for a while. Yes, it sounded great and yes, the bridge tilted. It is entirely due to the shape of the top on these Eastman. The apex of the curve sits well behind the bridge location and the top has an unusual shape coming back towards the fingerboard, almost a taper if you will. Seems like All their "A" are shaped like this and it is causing a lot of concern, justifiably, for the owners. I would not go so far as to call it a flaw , because this it how they are made, but I do not find it optimal either. On the plus side ,they seem very well made and finished and have great tone. Wish Eastman would pick up on this and perhaps change their top curve. I have tried contacting them with E-mail but never got any sort of response.
I would not worry too much about it, play it and love it.

[Johnny60]

I have a 505 and the bridge used to tilt forwards. I took it back to the store where I bought it and the guy simply planted his thumbs behind the top of the saddle, his fingers in front of the saddle and gently but firmly pulled it back to 90 degrees. It's still straight and true some 10 months later.