Advice wanted: luthier communication level

**rnjl** · Feb-25-2005, 11:21am

Hello everybody, it's Neal, haven't been around much in a while, but hope to start playing and participating again.

Here's my situation, and I'd appreciate some sage advice.

I ordered a mandolin from a known builder a while back, and put up (over time) half the anticipated cost as a deposit. Again, this person is known and respected in the mando world, and based on previous dealings with him, and his reputation, we didn't sign a contract, but just had a verbal agreement.

Months go by, and no word, even after several emails and phone calls from me just wanting to confirm that he received my deposit (which arrived in several chunks over time.) Now it's somewhat past the time he said the mando would be ready, and I have no evidence that he's even thinking about starting it, nor do I have a contract that holds him to anything, nor have I heard from him in many months.

Please note: I'm not in a huge hurry to get a new mando, I just want to talk to the builder about the project, discuss different options, and get a sense of timing and cost.

Now, I know this person isn't a full time builder, and has had some personal issues in his life in the past few years, and I also realize that creative people with busy schedules aren't always the most organized when it comes to the business side of things. Still, it seems to me that if somebody is holding your money, you have a right to expect a return phone call within a week or so.

Any thoughts?

If you have thoughts or advice but don't want to make it public, feel free to email me off the board: rnjl@hotmail.com

Thanks!

Neal

**grandmainger** · Feb-25-2005, 12:17pm

Neal,

I would start getting antsy only after 15 days of no reply. It's customary for people to take up to 2 weeks vacation.
Also, do you know someone who knows this builder personally? If so, it may be good to get in touch with that person just to get in touch and maybe get some news... If your chosen luthier is a well respected member of the community, he'll reply... Maybe he's away or maybe he has computer troubles... Keep us posted but don't despair just yet!

Germain

**Philip Halcomb** · Feb-25-2005, 12:21pm

Neal,

Germain gave you some great sound advice. Although touching on the darker side of the matter, a couple well-known good luthiers have passed away in the past couple of months. I hope that's not the case in your situation (and probably not), but you might want to check up on that especially if the individual is of expiring age.

**rnjl** · Feb-25-2005, 1:21pm

Hi again.

I can confirm as of this morning:

He's not dead (just pining for the fjords. . . never mind), and it's been about five months of one-way messages.

So that rules out both of those possibilities.

Keep the advice coming, though!

thanks for your help,

Neal

**neal** · Feb-25-2005, 2:18pm

If you have a phone # now's the time to use it. # If that doesn't work, you have an address, go to mapquest and look for a business nearby, call them and ask them to check in on the guy, he might be .... #Someone in town knows the guy. #It may sound a little intrusive, but he's not answering, and he has your money.

-The other Neal, even spelled right # #

**Ken Sager** · Feb-25-2005, 2:19pm

Five months past an expected delivery date is probably more common than you think, but five months with no reply is much too long.

You've outed yourself already, but a simple post with "Does anybody know how I can quickly contact Builder X?" would do the trick. Maybe try it to the Co-Mando list. If for some reason he's not answering emails, and not picking up his phone, it's likely that more than one person out there knows the reasons why and might share that knowledge with you.

Waiting is hard enough, but waiting with no contact must be killer.

Good luck,
Ken

**b.pat** · Feb-25-2005, 2:21pm

Please tell me this isn't another Ron O___ thread.
B.Pat

**rnjl** · Feb-26-2005, 9:25pm

Hi again.

Nope, it's not Ron O, but for now I'm just looking for advice.

I did hear from an associate of his that he doesn't answer his cell phone when he's gone over his monthly minutes; that should give us all some perspective on how hard luthiers work, and for what kinds of rewards.

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for your help- anybody else?

Neal

**sunburst** · Feb-26-2005, 11:06pm

I don't really have any advice, but I will say that your luthier does owe you a responce or a refund. Of coarse, I realize that a refund isn't very likely if you can't get a responce.
All I would say is keep trying, and follow the advice you've been given.
Being behind in ones work and late with deliveries is one thing, but being unresponsive to paying customers is another.

**Gibsonman** · Feb-27-2005, 11:19am

I agree with sunburst. I have my oun business, and would not think of treating my customers that way. Do you know if he has received your money? If so and if I were you, even if it meant getting on a plane, which I have never done. I would have to make me a HOUSE CALL. I don,t like to be that way ,but right is right.

**mandolooter** · Feb-27-2005, 7:47pm

Have your emails mentioned a quasi-threat to go "public" with the whole deal? Might be time to get him/her thinking of future customers and the repercussions the lack of communication could cause. Im a small biz owner and wouldn't treat anyone with that little of respect. The money may be spent due to a family hardship etc and the embarressment factor can also play into that equation (his, not yours) I hate when i screw up and have put off informing customers until I had a alternitive game plan figured out to appease us both, but 5 mo.s is a L O N G time...too long in my view. Good Luck with the whole thing. Life can throw good honest folks some curves that are hard to manuver, especially if they are compounded by relationship problems etc. I wish you the best and hope its some sort of fluke and your dream mando shows up soon...with ya both happy!

**Stephen Perry** · Feb-27-2005, 7:52pm

A nice letter inquiring about progress and asking for return of money if it is no longer possible to make the mandolin. Certified mail.

**rnjl** · Mar-05-2005, 6:50pm

Well, maybe we have a happy ending.

I finally reached the fellow on his cell phone, he was very apologetic, and said he's got my mando partially finished in the next batch.

Now, as it turns out, b/c he and I never had a written contract, he had some details wrong regarding what I wanted, but we went over the whole thing from tailpiece to headstock and he claims it'll be ready by summer.

OK, I'm psyched, I'll let you know.

I think what we have here is a case of creative focus stomping on organizational details.

Neal

**TommyK** · Mar-07-2005, 12:44pm

Well mjl, it sounds like your problem is mostly resolved.

For anyone who wants to listen, there is plenty to say for being able to trust a man's word and doing business with a handshake. The problem comes in that with a complex item, such as a musical instrument, it always pays to get it in writing. If the term 'contract' bothers you, then call it a letter of understanding or just sit down with the guy and as you make up the order, write it down, then send a copy. This saves a whole lot of confusion over details. Especially over the course of months (in my case days), details can be forgotten.
If seller doesn't take it upon himself to write it down on a shop order, or whatever, you as the buyer can write it down and make sure you both have a copy. Tell him you own memory is not what it ustabe and you need to write it down so you don't forget. You might just save a friendship. If the worst happens and the luthier does pass on to his great reward before deliver, how are his heirs supposed to know what you two agreed on. You can't be mad at a man for dying, but you're still out your hard earned bucks.