When pick material

[mandobassman]

I have heard claims in the past about Wegen picks being made of Kevlar. Is there any truth to this. I have heard it disputed before. Some say not true, but The Mandolin Shop states on their website "each pick is handmade from Kevlar". I'm sure Michel Wegen want's to keep it a mystery, but I'm just curious. Is the Mandolin Shop posting info based on rumor?

[mandobassman]

We'll. don't I feel stupid. The title was supposed to be Wegen Pick Material.

[Elliot Luber]

Good question. Bad spell check. Must have an iPhone.

[Mike Scott]

Hmm.........doesn't sound like kevlar, but who knows-well someone knows but isn't talking. Pulled the following from a music store website (in Europe):

Wegen picks are made in The Netherlands, by the artisan Michel Wegen. Using a plastic material (which he holds as a tightly guarded secret), Michel makes each pick by hand in his modeling studio, as a hobby from his regular work of professional model maker for museums, advertisement agencies, attraction parks, hospitals, etc.

Working in such a fashion, Michel is able to custom manufacture picks to design for all customer requirements. Through the years, he has developed a number of basic models which have become standardized into a product line, which The Pick Shoppe is proud to carry in stock.

All Wegen picks have a built-in bevel, which simulates the wear of many hours of playing time, so that from the time you open the package, your Wegen pick will feel like you've been playing it forever! Moreover, the picks are designed with built in features to help improve control - for example, the thicker picks have distinctive ridges which help you hold on and control the pick. Some of the thinner models have holes drilled through them in patterns designed to maximize gripability.

The (secret) plastic material has very tortoise-like qualities, and in fact, many Wegen users claim the picks sound equal to or superior to real tortoise.

[UsuallyPickin]

The word Kevlar is in the process of becoming a generic term.. plasticizing if you will.. much like Dobro replaced resophonic......... I'm sure there is a proper name for all of the given mythic pick materials out there........ I surely don't know them so Kevlar it is ....... sometimes..... pick on! R/

[bratsche]

Pulled the following from a music store website (in Europe):
.......
for example, the thicker picks have distinctive ridges which help you hold on and control the pick. Some of the thinner models have holes drilled through them in patterns designed to maximize gripability.
.........

(emphasis added)

So one can complain more about them because they have holes instead of ridges?

I'm sure there is a proper name for all of the given mythic pick materials out there........ I surely don't know them so Kevlar it is ....... sometimes..... pick on! R/

I nominate the generic term "plasplectranium"!

bratsche

[JeffD]

Unobtainum

[Michael Bridges]

Unclickium

[Ivan Kelsall]

Wegen picks are most certainly NOT made from Kevlar. This topic cropped up a couple of years (or more) back when folks were speculating on what the material actually was. I e-mailed Michael Wegen to mention this,& the reply was a resounding laugh !.Kevlar is an Aramid fiberous material.To produce a material that could be machined into picks,it would have to be impregnated with resin.Then,after the machining process to the various thicknesses,it would be totally shredded & unuseable scrap !.So forget Kevlar,
Ivan

[lorrainehornig]

Kevlar is an Aramid fiberous material.To produce a material that could be machined into picks,it would have to be impregnated with resin.Then,after the machining process to the various thicknesses,it would be totally shredded & unuseable scrap !.So forget Kevlar,
Ivan

I work in the textile industry. Specialty fibers such as Kevlar and other aramids (Carbon fiber, etc.) are being used in entirely new ways. You are correct in stating the woven fiber has to be impregnated with resin prior to machining. However, machining is performed successfully on impregnated fibers all the time. We produce panels and complex 3-D structures that are impregnated and machined...including the drilling of holes. Impregnating the fiber changes the characteristic of the fiber...it doesn't just layer overtop the woven material. It infiltrates every fiber of the material...that is why machining is not out of the question and will not cause shredding of the material. Kevlar is very expensive and if it were ever used for picks the thickness could be determined by the denier of the fiber...the heavier the denier, the more expensive the final product would be (although it would not be out of the question for multiple layers of resin to coat such a product). Kevlar is a very versatile fiber because of its very high tensile (breaking strength). The thinnest Kevlar is difficult to cut with scissors and thick woven fabric is used for bullet-proof vests...bullets will not penetrate it. Also, Kevlar is highly sensitive to Ultraviolet light and exposure turns the material from its natural yellow color to a brown color in a relatively short time...so adding UV protection would add cost as well. So I guess the bottom line is weather or not the manufacturing of picks is a feasible application for Kevlar. If Wegen is using Kevlar in the manufacture of their picks, I don't think they would admit it...it is certainly not out of the question though.

[Manfred Hacker]

Kevlar or not Kevlar ...
there must be a difference in material of the white and black picks. I have used Wegens for years now and two visually completely identical picks (name (M150), size and thickness) produce distinctly different tone: the white one produces a much brighter tone than the black one.

[Mike Scott]

Kevlar or not Kevlar ...
there must be a difference in material of the white and black picks. I have used Wegens for years now and two visually completely identical picks (name (M150), size and thickness) produce distinctly different tone: the white one produces a much brighter tone than the black one.

I would agree with a slight tonal difference, but the web site says it is the same material

[lorrainehornig]

Kevlar or not Kevlar ...
there must be a difference in material of the white and black picks. I have used Wegens for years now and two visually completely identical picks (name (M150), size and thickness) produce distinctly different tone: the white one produces a much brighter tone than the black one.

There is black Kevlar on the market...it's much less common than the normal yellow Kevlar. Maybe you have a black Kevlar pick.

[mandobassman]

Wegen picks are most certainly NOT made from Kevlar

I thought so, but I just find it interesting that a authorized Wegen would make that statement on their website.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I worked as an Aerospace composites design & manufacturing engineer for over 8 years,specializing mainly in Carbon / Carbon/Glass & Carbon/Kevlar layups. The majority of Carbon - Carbon /Kevlar composite items had to be drilled prior to fitting to an aircraft & this required the use of ultra-sharp,high speed drills.We used drills & cutters manufactured by the Klenk Co. in Germany. These drills/cutters were also ultra-hard (& ultra-expensive),so much so,that if dropped they'd shatter like glass. After drilling a component,the holes would be 'feathered' ie.the fibre strands would pull free of the general matrix & they had to be re-sealed with the appropriate resin to consolidate the fibres back into the matrix.
The point i'm trying to make is that any machining or drilling of a composite component (pick), would result in the fibres in the general matrix decoming exposed. I mentioned that i'd contacted Michael Wegen re.the curiosity in his pick material,i should also have mentioned that i cut through an un-used 1.5mm Wegen pick (i use 1mm thick ones now), & there was no trace whatsoever of any fibres or anything resembling fibres in the cut section.
I'm sure that since i retired,7 years ago,that advances have been made in the use of Carbon / Kevlar materials,but fibre is fibre & you can't disguise it to look like a 'solid'. Once it's been cut or abraded,fibres will show one way or another.
The Carbon or Carbon/Kevlar panels that we used for Aircraft outer skins were high pressure water jet cut to size.The drilling was done using very high speed drills, which unless well cooled,could cause the resin to melt / oxidise because of the low melting point of the resin. All these factors combined,would make producing Kevlar 'picks' almost impossible to produce economically (if at all !). So,as i said - forget Kevlar.
As for Larry's point - i've read the same thing on the same website.I did e-mail the dealer,but obviously they did nothing,
Ivan

[guthriej]

Wegen' are made of Polyoxymehylene Dupont invented it for model makers,
and it is used in medical devices too. It's commond name is Delrin. Yes his picks
are quite unique in tone too..

[Paul Busman]

Hmmm... I have some generic Delrin in my shop (I use it for my whistle making) sold as Acetal copolymer. I may just try to cobble a pick or two. It's interesting, very tough stuff.

[guthriej]

Paul,

There are several high tech polomors simular to Derlin, and it is possible it is one to those too.
If you can't patent protect, and sometimes even when you can, you just never say what it is. He
is a model maker, and Derlin is very stiff, and stable just for that alone, and they also used those polymors
a lot for orthopedic prosthetics too. Plus He is real good at working with it, and has his own style of pick
building that is also as unique as the tone they produce.

[DHopkins]

Does it matter?

[Ivan Kelsall]

As a rider to guthriej's post,there are several different specs.of Delrin as well,made to suit different purposes. There are some picks made from a plastic material called ''Ultem'',but having made picks from the spec.of Ultem used in the aircraft industry,i can testify that they shredded in minutes,
Ivan

[PseudoCelt]

Does it matter?

It doesn't really matter, but the fact that it's a secret makes me want to know!

Wegen' are made of Polyoxymehylene Dupont invented it for model makers, and it is used in medical devices too. It's commond name is Delrin. Yes his picks are quite unique in tone too..

I've heard this before. The plastic in Wegen picks does look similar to some types of Delrin/acetal. OTOH, Delrin is already such a common material for picks that I wonder why he would want to keep it so secret.

In a completely unscientific "drop test", Wegen picks don’t sound the same as the Delrin picks (Dunlop Tortex and 500s) I have of the same gauge, although it could be a different type. In my drop test, the most similar-sounding pick was a Gravity pick, which I think is made of acrylic/PMMA. Another rumour I’ve read is that Wegens are made from some sort of dental composite, which seem to be based on PMMA or related polymers.

Patrick