New collaboration Idea

[mando_pete]

Hello all,

I've been with the cafe for sometime now but have been lurking in the classical section all this time. I've been very impressed with the amount of knowledge shared here in this forum.

Anyhoo, I was sitting here composing tonight, which I do rarely, because I'm not very good at it and had an idea. ....

I thought it would be fun if we all composed a piece together. Maybe 8 or 16 bars per person rotating aorund. We could call it the "Mandolin Cafe Sonata", or some such.

For example, person A writes 8 bars and passes it to the next person B who adds their 8 bars etc. Kind of like the great pick tour if any of you were familiar with that.

I've got the 8 bar intro ready to share. Who wants to pick up the ball and run with it?

The only unanswered question I have is what format to do this in so we can all add our pieces. And the thought I had was if you can send me your piece, in PDF or some other viewable format I will maintain a master PDF on my website with pieces added as they come in.

Let me know what you think and if interested just post a "Yea" in this thread and you'll be person "x" on the list to pass the piece around too.

Thanks,
Pete

[Eugene]

Frankly, I'm probably not up for committing much effort to composition, but your idea could make for some good fun. This was approached in a slightly different way by the romantic-era publisher/composer/guitarist Anton Diabelli. Rather than a handful of bars, he wrote a little waltz-like theme and asked a number of the time's prominent pianist composers to each write one variation on it. Diabelli did assemble the variations by the likes of Schubert, a rather young Liszt, etc; however, Diabelli's initial concept was completely overshadowed by the fact that Beethoven generated a whole composition of his own on the theme consisting of 33 monumental variations. Beethoven's work is, of course, considered one of the milestones of the whole history of the form. It's the one that is now known as the Diabelli variations, op. 120. This is a mighty long way to offer a precedent to suggest that rather than a series of short, incongruously constructed bars, why not generate a theme to share that functions as a conceptual whole? Interested parties could then each generate a variation on it. (Just don't pass to Herr Beethoven; he's a ball hog.)

[John Craton]

Didn't Rimsky-Korsakov do somethings similar with Cui and Liadov, each writing their own variations on "Chopsticks"? I believe that was for pf 4-hands, but I've never actually heard it.

[mando_pete]

Okay, so I take it this was not received warmly. Thats okay. Just thought it would be a fun exercise.

In any case. I really enjoy playing classical music on the mandolin, and look forward to conversing with you all in the future.

Pete

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hello,

I would like to try. The only problem is that my note typing program is "Capella" and I think the format could not be converted to .pdf I may send my 8 bars as a .jpg, if someone agrees to re-type them.
Eugene and John, very interesting to know these curious things! Thanks!

Good luck!

[John Craton]

Okay, so I take it this was not received warmly. Thats okay. Just thought it would be a fun exercise.

No, Pete, I wouldn't say your idea was coolly received. It just jogged a couple of memories of other similar projects. Why not post your opening 8 measures and see what others care to contribute? (If you post it as a regular JPG we could all view it.) No telling what you'll end up with -- perhaps another Death Waltz? -- but it would be interesting to see.

[Eugene]

No, Pete, I wouldn't say your idea was coolly received. It just jogged a couple of memories of other similar projects...

Indeed. The more relevant nugget of my post would be in reference to "good fun." Please, carry on.

[Eugene]

I just noticed, Pete, that your profile lists you in Ohio. Have we corresponded in the past? Where are you located?

[NYClassical]

Hmmm...sounds like fun. Pete--maybe the best way to proceed would be for you to be the moderator and lay down some arbitrary guidelines.... for example.... you could decide the structure of the thing ahead of time.... a, b, a' ....theme and variations.... etc. and then we could all sign up and do 8 bars.... you as the moderator could assemble everthing and then edit and tweak it here and there..... theme and variations might be less collaborative, but easier to handle... you could just accept submissions and put them in order.

or it could be a b a' or rondeau form and you could pick the number of bars.... just a thought... i'll sign up...nothing to lose!

Adam

[JimD]

Sounds like it could be fun.

Puts me in mind of John Cage though. In one of his books, he makes reference to a Japanese poetic form (if I recall correctly, it is called "Waka")in which two or more poets collaborate by composing lines that alternate but each subsequent line is as different as possible from the previous line.

There is also and old surrealists game of collective drawing. In this activity, one person begins a line drawing and then folds the paper so that the last bit of the line shows -- but the next person has no idea what the rest of the drawing is -- he/she only knows where the pencil left the page, as it were.

Cage, Lou Harrison, Virgil Thompson and Henry Cowell dabbled in a musical version of this. Interestingly, Peters has published some of the results. I think they called the collection "Party Pieces"

I suppose it all depends on how surreal you wish to be...

[NYClassical]

There is also and old surrealists game of collective drawing. In this activity, one person begins a line drawing and then folds the paper so that the last bit of the line shows -- but the next person has no idea what the rest of the drawing is -- he/she only knows where the pencil left the page, as it were.

I've played the (really fun) watered-down version of that where you fold the paper in 3 like a letter and do head, torso, and legs....so fun!!!

[JimD]

One way to do it with music is to compose a line of music(treble and bass perhaps) and end your contribution at the beginning of a new line (one bass note, one treble note). Then fold the paper so that only the new line is visible.

The next person does likewise and so on.

[mando_pete]

Okay. I'll come up with some more concrete ground rules and we will give it a shot. JPG's are fine, I'll type them in and post them on the website.

I'm travelling the next two days. I'll put the ground rules up on Thursday night when I return.

-- Eugene ... I'm in the Columbus area ( Genoa Twp actually. ) Would love to find someone to sit down and play with if you are close by.

Pete

[Eugene]

I am close by...and I play with some frequency here in town. In fact, a classical concert sponsoring organization with which I am involved meets every third Saturday at the Borders Books, Music, and Cafe at Kenny & Henderson Rds. here in Columbus. I almost always carry a mandolin with me for a bit of baroque/classical "jamming." Check out The Columbus Guitar Society.

[OdnamNool]

I've played these fun games in all (oh no! #how do you spell it? #jaunra (?) #...with words, drawings, and music... #I'm up for it. #There's a kazillion ways to approach it! #That's part of the fun...

If you really want the outcome more "tight" or "sensible", perhaps you could write the whole melody...the whole song, and us contributers could alternately add (our perspective 8 bars) of either accompanying chords or counterpoint to your melody...

However you decide to approach it will be a fun adventure I'm sure! #Oh boy! #Someone to play with!

[Daymando]

I'll throw my compositional hat into the ring. Who knows: perhaps the inspiration could bubble over into a full-blown mandolin orchestra piece! (It's been known to happen...)

Allen

[mando_pete]

I aplologize in advance for starting and then dropping this thread but I ended up travelling way more than I thought I would the last couple of weeks.

Things have calmed down and I now can turn my attention to important things like my kids and the mandolin #

Anyway, if anyone is still interested I have posted 16 bars of a "something" ( I'm thinking fugue but really am not sure ) to my website in pdf format.

You may elect to compose 16 bars of "chair 2" or 4, 8 or 16 more bars of melody.

The choice is yours. Send your changes to me in pdf or bmp format and
I will add them to the score. Indicate what measure the change starts and ends in and whether it is melody or backup.

If you want to participate I will make changes as you respond to this thread.

i.e Player A says I'll add 4 bars get the first four bars.... Those 4 bars will be posted for player B, etc, etc.

The pdf is located at My Webpage