Gibson -- still dead in the water.

Still no formal charges for either the 2009 or 2011 confiscation of tone woods at Gibson. According to this piece Gibson exhausted their supplies of ebony & rosewood and in December, 2011 started using composites for their instruments? I suppose Gibson per se will not fold over this as they have other products lines but will it mean the end of OAI and guitars/mandolins? :(


http://video.foxnews.com/v/155876964...ylist_id=86858


I suggest this video be considered FYI only. Comments always turn political and get sideways with the rules.

Bernie - we have been receiving a steady supply of Gibson mandolins. I assure you there are no composites in the mandolins we are getting. Shortage of supplies has slowed things down a little and has kept Gibson from producing lower end mandos but hopefully at some ppoint that will change and we'll at least see F9's and some A's again. I can also assure you that the quality of the mandolins is the most consistent quality that I have seen from any period in Gibson history.........both in fit / finish and sound. Dave Harvey knows what he is doing and takes great pride in the mandolins he puts his name on!

I don't think this board is an appropriate place to discuss pending legal cases by the Federal government.

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Originally Posted by Markus

I don't think this board is an appropriate place to discuss pending legal cases by the Federal government.

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True... Bernie does raise a legitimate question about future product availability. That's politically neutral.

It's been "pending" since 2009. No charges to date.

Let me see, I can basically buy any wood I need to build an instrument domestically, that is from sources where the wood is already in the US. If I can do that, then I would have to assume Gibson could as well. If Gibson is using composites then I would assume that's part of their business plan. They aren't going out of business because of this so to say they are dead in the water would probably be wrong. Much ado about not very much.

The story says `Gibson ran out of wood in December', yet I have seen 2012 instruments with real wood ... is there actual facts being conveyed here?

I cannot find any actual new facts being added to the discussion by this link or discussion, excepting what TMS added.

Is a one sided retread of already known facts adding anything new?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Markus

I don't think this board is an appropriate place to discuss pending legal cases by the Federal government.

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I respectfully disagree. This is news that affects the mandolin market and as far as I know no one here is part of the legal teams representing either side. It's classic First Ammendment stuff. The Newsfetcher on this site has addressed this case before. I think that as long as it does not degenerate into a political diatribe in violation of the posting guidelines, it is exactly what we should be discussing here. This is THE main mandolin discussion site, for heaven's sakes!

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Originally Posted by The Mandolin Store

Bernie - we have been receiving a steady supply of Gibson mandolins. I assure you there are no composites in the mandolins we are getting. Shortage of supplies has slowed things down a little and has kept Gibson from producing lower end mandos but hopefully at some ppoint that will change and we'll at least see F9's and some A's again. I can also assure you that the quality of the mandolins is the most consistent quality that I have seen from any period in Gibson history.........both in fit / finish and sound. Dave Harvey knows what he is doing and takes great pride in the mandolins he puts his name on!

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Good to hear Dennis! Being a major seller of Gibson mandolins you are most directly knowledgable about this matter and in position to know. Likewise, from what see at my "distance" I do think Dave Harvey is a great asset to Gibson mandolins -- from several perspectives.

OTOH, I do think that one part of your response points to a potential risk to Gibson as to mandolin production if they do not see resloution soon.

For example, if entry level mandolin production (A-9's & F-9's) are being impacted it implies that Gibson is being forced to make production decisions.

I guess it boils down to can they sell enough higher end mandolins to justify the high quality workforce required to construct them?

I am not making or selling insturments for a living but in many kinds of businesses the entry level products provide the means for users (in this case mandolinists) to start using the company's products and to develop brand loyalty that will eventually see a percentange of them buying the more expensive models?

I hope you are right about it being resolved soon.

I do think the political aspects of this matter are possibly a factor in the matter but I suggested that this was not germane here because discussions always boil out of control. As to the matter of the source of information. What does that matter? Has it been three years since 2009 or not? -- have charges been filed or not? If there is anything in the video is factually incorrect then that would be a different matter.

But again that is not my concern in this thread -- my question was what will this mean to Gibson mandolins. It was good to hear from Dennis that there is a good supply albeit the higher end of the line.

The subject is relevant and effect all of us. I doubt that there PAC-RIM counterparts are having the same problem with there regulatory agency's. A great American company trying to produce a good product. And also employing Americans, god forbid we should let that happen.

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Originally Posted by nickster60

I doubt that there PAC-RIM counterparts are having the same problem with there regulatory agency's.

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I can type ebony mandolin fretboard into google and find quite a few suppliers who are willing to sell me them. In quantity if desired. I can buy a mando w/ ebony fretboards from every other mandolin maker in the USA.

Yet Gibson ran out?
Have they heard of the internet?

Is another $5 in cost on a mandolin costing thousands going to bankrupt them?

What I see makes me wonder how they `ran out of wood in December'.

Here we go...10, 9, 8, 7...

Markus do you dislike Gibson? Seems like I spend less time on the cafe what has happened to this place.

I think there are some who are determined to make the disucssion political so that it will be shut down.

As to the idea that Gibson who uses ebony and rosewood by the ton -- buy pieces off the internet? That's absurd.

I usually leave content decisions to the moderator team. Never understood when a non-moderator interjects an opinion about topic relavence.

Never cared much about Gibson, however. . .

f-d

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fatt-dad

I usually leave content decisions to the moderator team. Never understood when a non-moderator interjects an opinion about topic relavence. f-d

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No problem, guess you'll have to cosider that as one of your life's little mysteries then?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nickster60

Markus do you dislike Gibson? Seems like I spend less time on the cafe what has happened to this place.

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I don't dislike Gibson at all.

I am aware they are being charged with illegal activity and I am also aware that no one is fully aware of all the facts of the case currently.

Given that, I strongly dislike their attempts to use media manipulation to tell an incomplete one-sided version

This story is infotainment. It's not news.

If you're linking to Fox News, MSNBC, anything Rachel Maddow, Rush Limbaugh, Keith Olbermann or Glen Beck -- all peddling their political leanings there's a good chance it's going to get shut down. Get your extremism and political fix elsewhere please. This topic has and could be discussed appropriately but we will not host threads started with intent to create political stir.