Noodled on a Vega 10-string Cylinderback Mandolute - CCGGDDAAEE. Apologies to JS Bach and Ian Anderson...
Nice -- I'll really have to dig out that particular Bourrée and see if I can play the original. It's from one of the lute suites, isn't it? In the meantime, I've only just recorded a Bach bourrée myself, this one from the third cello suite. Played on my Kala slimline uke, retuned to GDAE mandolin tuning (so it's really a mandolin, right?). Tabs/notation are at Mandozine in TablEdit format. Martin
Very inspiring Eddie, I am quite sure Johan Sebastian would forgive you; I am not so sure about Ian though, he always seemed so serious about his stuff. Officially, this is the fifth movement from Suite in E minor for Lute, BWV 996. Mandolin or not, Martin, it looks like one of the smaller angels sitting on the ledge of a church organ could play it, the perfectly played piece matching the picture. I feel one those fits of baroquomania coming on. MUST. RESIST. THE. URGE. - oh well...
You know what they say: If it ain't baroque, don't fix it. I remember this from Jethro Tull--never knew where it came from. It's on my list to learn.
Hehehe... and I had never heard of Jethro Tull - never had the foggiest who you guys were talking about. Live and learn. bratsche
For all who didn't get acquainted with the Bouree the wrong way, i.e. via Jethro Tull, here's how it goes: I have started practising, so stay tuned. I am considering to play it standing on one leg...
If you do, Bertram, you definitely must get some high laced boots as well! My word, that was certainly, ummm... wild and woolly! Is this guy responsible for making all those weird vocalizations as he played, or was there someone else doing them? I guess now I know where the odd spelling of bourree with one 'r' dropped originates from, as well. Vedddy interesting. bratsche
Ian Anderson does everything himself - playing, breathing, moaning, babbling. I guess he has served as an example for generations of music students on how NOT to play the flute... I doubt if Ian's attire would look that good on me, especially since it does not end with the boots...
Well played gentlemen. Thanks for mentioning the .tef file Martin. Scott
I've been playing around with the bourrée in E minor today (the Jethro Tull/Eddie one), and as long as one just plays the top voice I think it sits just fine on mandolin (or mando-tuned uke) so I'll make a recording over the weekend. Rather easier than the bourree from the third cello suite, in fact. If anybody else wants to give it a go, it's at the Icking Music Archive here in standard notation. That's a harp/harpsichord transcription, but it's fine on mando if you just leave out the bass voice. There's also a guitar transcription here, but that's not much help for mandolin. Trying to play both voices on one mandolin would need some careful rearranging of the double stops, and doesn't look very promising to me, so I think I'll stick with the top voice. Martin
Jim Baker has a nice arrangement of the Bourree in Em that's very playable.
Actually, I wanted to practice Hollow Poplar, but then ended up here. Martin, we must have the same book (Landau ?) . Here is my stab at Bourrée 1:
Thnaks for reminding me, Eddie: Jim has posted the tabs on the Cafe before (link). It's still only the top voice, though -- the piece also has a bass voice meant to be played on the same instrument. Jim's version is identical to the Icking guitar version, except for the missing bass notes. On fingerpicked guitar, the bass voice can be played at the same time, as it can on lute (the original instrument), harp or harpsichord. Not so easy on flatpicked mandolin. One thing I've only just noticed (he says shame-facedly) is that the Icking guitar version -- and Jim Baker's -- are in the original E minor, whereas the Icking harp transcription has been transposed down to A minor. I rather like it in A minor -- it makes more use of the four strings of the mandolin.
Eddy very nice version. I like the way you start as Bach and morph into Anderson. I don't recognize the second part. Guess I need to learn the whole piece. Martin, do you have tab or abc for the base notation that you can share? Very fine Manfred. Any way can share this in abc format?
Well played everyone, I've got to dig my Tull cds out now!!!!
Her's an update of my version in abc: X:1 T:Boree C:Bach - Anderson L:1/8 Q:120 M:4/4 K:G z6 ef |: g2 fe ^d2 ef | B2 ^c^d e2 =d=c | B2 AG F2 GA | BA GF E2 ef | g2 fe ^d2 ef | B2 ^c^d e2 =d=c | B2 AG F3G |1 [G6B,6] ef :|2 [G6B,6] BG |: d2 Ac B2 gd | e2 Bd c2 BA | ^G2 AB c2 BA | A6 dA | B2 gd e2 Bd | c2 ae f2 ^ce | d2 ^cB ^A3B | B6 bf | ^g2 fe a2 e=g | f2 ed g2 d=f | e2 ae f2 ^ce | ^dB4z eB | c2 dA B2 cG | A2 BF G2 FE | ^D2 EF G2 FE | |1 E6 BG :|2 E8 | W:Created with TablEdit http://www.tabledit.com/
Still working on it. Today I managed to play the whole thing from memory for the first time. The second part is the hard one, because it was never played by JT (which is where I originally learned it) and because of Bach's consequent juggling with accidentals. I will not try to play it in Bach's original rhythm but stick to Tull's syncopated swing instead. Videoing it standing on one leg will not do because I would have to stand too far away from the camera to make it visible. Maybe I'll stand on my head instead. That's one Ian Anderson has not tried afaik...
A little hesitant - that dang camera syndrome - played on a Vega Cylinderback Mandolin - GGDDAAEE.
Eddie, I love the change from straight to swing! Best of both worlds. Manfred, I saw that version of Bouree in the Bancalari Bach book, it's a different Bouree but you played it very well !!!!
Jim: Manfred plays the first half of the same piece as in my video earlier in the thread, the Bourrée of the third cello suite -- it's in TEF format at Mandozine (Link). Sorry, I have no abc or tab for the bass voice of the Eminor lute bourrée , but it can be tabbed quite easily from the standard notation guitar transcription at Icking (Link). There's a fabulous Youtube clip of Narciso Yepes playing the piece (both voices) on ten-string guitar, an instrument he developed specifically so that he can play baroque lute pieces (such as this one) without having to transpose bass notes. Martin
Thanks Martin. Turns out I did have it but didn't remember until the download started and prompted me. As for the bass part I can tab it. No problem...........at least until I try to play it. Cheers
I got around to recording two clips of the Eminor Bourrée today -- one on the mando-tuned ukulele and the other on my 1898 Vinaccia bowlback. With it being a lute piece, the uke tone suits it pretty well. The piece is fairly easy, except that I need to work on my baroque trills. The bourrée has two of them (four including the repeats), and they're more or less OK in these clips (in the right place, in time, starting on the top note and resolving to the lower), but somewhat pedestrian. Brilliant trills (like in the Yepes clip above) are what gives a tune a baroque feeling, so I'd like to improve on them On ukulele: On mandolin: Martin
Nice Martin. I prefer the mandolin but just my taste I guess. I'll have to practice the "trill". Just a quick hammer on pull off maybe. Could that be notated as a triplet/treble?
Just now looking at the bourree in E minor adapted for guitar including the base notes Martin. Of course it will not translate directly to mandolin as is. I'm trying to make sense of some of the base notes. They do not all follow harmonies familiar to me. (not surprising) My intent is not to attempt to translate every base note of course. Rather, I'd like to use what base harmonies I can glean to come up with double stops or two finger chords in appropriate places.
...come up with double stops or two finger chords in appropriate places. That's exactly what I also do Jim. Since this piece is not as polyphonic as you'd expect from Bach (and certainly not a fugue), there are no serious countermelodies to cover (as opposed to Händel's Sarabande, see the other thread) and catching doublestops as they come in handy is the way to go.
I'm still in awe of this Narsico Yepes fellow. That's just amazing. I think maybe I'll tune up the old six string and play around with the E minor arrangement for guitar. Might be fun.
Yes, that is impressive. But with fingerpicking with the right hand and mostly moving about the same 3 frets with the left, it resembles more of harp playing and is hard to compare to what we can do with a 5ths tuning and a plec. At least, I feel better now about looking at the fretboard most of the time.
Jim, There are a lot of useful threads on the Cafe on how to play trills, and I think the general consensus is that it works better to pick every single note rather than play it as hammer-on/pull-off. The baroque trill specifically should start on the note above the one written in the score, and end on the written note, so it would have to be a pull-off/hammer-on/pull-off combination to get a minimal four-note trill. Trills in post-baroque classical music are different; they start and end on the written note, so you can get away with a three-note trill. Old threads: Link 1 Link 2 Link 3 Link 4 Link 5 Martin
David, I agree about JT damage - I even wonder how people would dance to Bach's original rhythm, seeing it has no swing at all. Quoting from Wikipedia: In his Der Vollkommene Capellmeister (Hamburg, 1739), Johann Mattheson wrote of the bourrée, "its distinguishing feature resides in contentment and a pleasant demeanor, at the same time it is somewhat carefree and relaxed, a little indolent and easygoing, though not disagreeable" In other words: you may dance it in a lewd and licentious way as long as everybody like it Therefore, I think, JT just exploited the definition, and Bach has no legal leg to stand on against it. BTW in your second part you seem to have flashed back to Bach sometimes, so this is another interesting before/after study.
I think everybody can play the tune just as he or she likes -- David's version sounds lovely, very musical and free! Bach's intentions are difficult to ascertain at this distance, but I recall reading a detailed article to the effect that the cello suites at least were almost certainly never intended for dancing. They followed the form of the baroque dance suite, but were not themselves actual dance music, and indeed are effectively undanceable to (some experts in baroque dance tried and failed). I guess that's not so very different from much of the current Irish or bluegrass repertoire: at the speed at which dance tunes are played by professional bands in concert or even in most pub sessions these days, they are utterly impossible to dance to. These have become pieces for listening even though they are in the form of dance tunes. Similarly with the trills discussed above -- they are an integral part of baroque music, but there is quite some fluency in where precisely they should be (the harpsichord version at Icking has one trill more than the guitar version, and the trills in the Yepes video are in completely different places than either). In one of the old threads I've linked, Chris Thile is quoted as saying in a live intro to one of his Bach renditions "trills are entirely, ENTIRELY, not acceptable on the mandolin", wheras in another one Victor Kiolaphides says: "I must admit that I find trills on a picked instrument to be a MUCH more brilliant, "energetic" effect than those on a bowed instrument. To wit, I suspect (intuitively, as I am no behavioral scientist) that the listener perceives the effort applied to any specific, physical activity, and evaluates it accordingly. In plain terms, the audience reacts with a natural, uninhibited, pre-cognitive "Wow!" when experiencing that sparkling, scintillating pick-every-note effect of a mandolin trill because it projects energy, effort, reflex acuity, mental presence, dexterity, etc. By way of counter-example, a long (say, whole-note) trill on a violin, pianissimo, is a rather soothing, placid effect. " So, take your pick and play it any which way you prefer... Martin
You got me curious and I've looked into what a real bourree looks like. Alright then, Bach's composition bears no apparent resemblance to it, and using the name would probably earn him a lawsuit for trademark copyright infringement today... On the other hand, you might be able to dance twist with the JT version. And if you feel a slight tremor under your feet, it's probably Bach spinning in his grave It is possible, btw, to dance to fast Irish tunes played in a pub session - I see it happen about every two months. There are several step dancers who are normally asking us to play faster than we already do and then bang away at the wooden floor with hard shoes. There's also a tremor, but I am quite sure Bach has no truck with it.
Here goes. I finally decided to bypass any dangerous or offending stunts by trying to look like Mr. Anderson in his later years.
Well done Bertram, doublestops what an unusual choice, but fitting nonetheless. Was that a self satisfied grin I detected at the end?
Either that, or he was auditioning for the part of the Cheshire Cat in the Alice in Wunderland sequel... Great version Bertram.
Thanks David and Eddie, I thought you'd be surprised by the doublestops I guess I was just glad I had made it through the take, but I have saved my real Cheshire Cat grin for a video yet to come - you'll need a wider computer screen.
Listening to Bertram's video, I thought that it suits the tune rather well to drop down into the OM range, so here is another one, played on a nine-string 1926 waldzither tuned GDDAAEEAA. A surprisingly resonant tone for such a small-bodied and short-scale instrument, I think it has a certain ancient quality to its tone that sits rather well with baroque and renaissance music. Martin
Sweet sounding Martin, I hear that ancient quality, too. I think it has also to do with the fact that you're playing rather far away from the bridge, thus giving the spectrum less overtone percentage, i.e. exactly what they liked back then. Dang, I should have tried that.
