Mark's Great Adventure

[J. Mark Lane]

Well folks, I finally took a day off and went down to Staten Island. It was a nice day here in NY, if a bit windy and cold. The trip down was very pleasant. I took the Metro North from Westchester this morning, and got the subway at Grand Central down to the tip of Manhattan. From there, I walked over to the Staten Island Ferry Terminal, just a couple of minutes from the subway station.

Note that there is a new Ferry Terminal. It's really nice. And guess what? The Staten Island Ferry is FREE! Meaning, you don't have to pay. It's amazing.

This report will consist of a number of posts. I played a lot of mandolins today. I made notes, and I took pictures. I've got a lot to say. Bear with me (or bail out, if you aren't interested).

I would suggest that people hold off responding until I have indicated that I'm done. That way, the various comments, pictures, etc., can all appear in one series, and the comments (if any) can follow.

Here goes....

[J. Mark Lane]

First things first. We live in a different world nowadays, and lower Manhattan is the center of that difference. This is Jingles. He works at the Staten Island Ferry terminal in Manhattan. He's a bomb dog. His master, a very nice DOT officer, didn't object to me taking a picture of Jingles. For his part, Jingles posed well and gave a big smile. Good boy!

[J. Mark Lane]

I hope Scott and Ted don't mind too much if some of these pics are a bit "off topic." Mandolin Brothers is a sponsor of this site, and I thought perhaps folks would like a little taste of what it's like to go there....

Here's the tip of Manhattan as you pull out on the Ferry.

[J. Mark Lane]

The Brooklyn Bridge (and the Manhattan Bridge in the background), looking up the East River.

[J. Mark Lane]

Lady Liberty. Merci boucout, les frogs.

[J. Mark Lane]

New Jersey (ick).

[J. Mark Lane]

Manhattan from the Staten Island side. You see, it's just a few minutes on the Ferry from Manhattan, and it's a beautiful Ferry ride, really. People were taking pictures everywhere. Lots of tourists just take it just for the ride. And...did I meantion, it's FREE!

[J. Mark Lane]

OK, what followed was a short bus ride. The bus driver was a great guy. Gave me a little bit of a tour along the way. Lived on Staten Island all his 36 years. Nice bus ride.

Then...I arrived. And this greeted me.

[J. Mark Lane]

And this....

[J. Mark Lane]

And...this....

[J. Mark Lane]

A wall of Mid-Mo's....

[J. Mark Lane]

There was lots and lots more. This place is pure heaven, folks. Mandolin heaven. And you should see the freakin' guitar collections!

Anyway, let's get more specific. I'll post some pics first, then talk about how they sounded.

I know from Collings that they have produced three blonde MF's, and that Mandolin Brothers ordered all three. I saw two there today. They were both very nice. One had white binding, the other black. Here's the one with black binding.

[J. Mark Lane]

This is a lousy picture, but it's a Gibson F5G. As discussed below, this was one of the ones that most interested me (in my price range). More on that later. I tried to brighten up the picture a bit, but this is really a very pretty mandolin. I need a new camera, alas.

[J. Mark Lane]

Much of what I saw is easy to find pictures of, so I didn't take pictures of everything. #But these two Gibson oval holes really were too much not to post. #

This 1906 three-point blackface was wonderful! #Price tag said $5k. #The picture does not do it justice (the glossiness of the picture is from the flash, and it looks much more even and smooth in real life).

[J. Mark Lane]

And then there was this 1918 F4. #It played like butter, and sounded soooo sweeet. And it had the vintage instrument smell (I sniffed the hole, alas). I loved it. If I was in the market for an oval hole, I would buy it. Priced at $5,195. #

[J. Mark Lane]

Sorry, I got my pictures mixed up with my notes there. Corrected now.

I hear the wife calling for dinner. I'll come back after dinner and post the real juicy stuff. If you guys can hold off posting any replies in the meantime, that will allow the story to continue evenly, and then we can let the stuff fly....<g>

[Santiago]

Ah, the pilgrimage to visit Stanley. If his place was on 48th street, it wouldn't have half the cache. Many a celebrity has had to go find him there on S.I., and it's invariably worth the trip for someone who knows the difference. One of these days when I have enough to spend to make the trip worthwhile rather than an exercize in frustration, I too will cross the New York Bight to taste the Brother's vintage. They event sent me some email advice on starter instruments.

[J. Mark Lane]

<sigh>

OK, where were we? #

Purpose and methodology: #I did not go there today to answer All Great Questions. #I went there very specifically to get some perspective on the following: what can you get for $4k plus or minus, and how does it compare to things at about one price point below or about one price about above that? #I also wanted to clear up for myself some "controversies" about, um, certain makes. #So I focused largely on instruments in the range between about $2k and about $7k. #

Out of curiousity, and so as to be able to offer a helpful hint or two to others, I also tried out a number of instruments in the price range of around $1k to $1.5k. #But I didn't try anywhere near all of them in that price range. #

Instruments that I took notes on include:

Weber Big Sky #
Weber Yellowstone
Weber Bitteroot
Weber Gallatin
Weber Bighorn

Phoenix Neo-Bluegrass (3 examples)
Phoenix Bluegrass (2 examples)

Collings MF (3 examples)
Collings MT (2 examples)

Gibson Alan Bibey
Gibson Sam Bush
Gibson Doyle Lawson
Gibson F5G
Gibson F5L "Fern"
Gibson F9 (2 examples)
Gibson F5L used -- 1988 Model

Flatiron F5 Artist used #-- 1996 model
Flatiron F5 Artist used #-- 1993 model

"Givens" A (oddball, see below)

Rigel G110 (2 examples)

Apitius Grand Classic

Kentucky KM750 (Chinese model)

Breedlove Quartz OF

Eastmans (4 models, I didn't write all the model numbers down but they were not cheap)

Several Mid-Mo's

I played a number of others, but those are the ones I have notes on. #Some, I picked up and put down immediately and took no notes. #Those included a Morgan Monroe and a handful of various other Asian imports. #

Moving on.....

[J. Mark Lane]

I went in with no expectations or prejudices. .... Well, perhaps that's not entirely true. One expectation I did have was that I fully expected to love the Collings MF's. I was also a tiny bit skeptical about some of the Gibsons, perhaps due to all the stuff I read here.

Any expectations I had were shattered.

I have two revelations:

1. Gibsons are just awesome.

2. Phoenix's are just awesome.

Let's talk about Gibsons. .... Well...jeez. LOL. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. I absolutely loved them. The three instruments that I loved the most of all the mandolins I played today were: the Doyle Lawson model, the Alan Bibey model, and the Sam Bush model. The other Gibsons were all very nice, as well. They were each slightly different from the other, something that I found very comforting, actually. I think perhaps "consistency" is often obtained at the expense of greater beauty (I mean tonally). They were all wonderful instruments.

My favorite was the Doyle Lawson. That thing just rang! It was loud, oh yes. But the volume was secondary to the tone. It was clean, clear, even, balanced, strong, crisp. It barked like a mad dog. It was wild. I loved it. Alas, it was priced above my ceiling at over $7k.

Next in line, for my own personal taste, was the Bibey. In fact, as I A-B'd the two over and over, sometimes I preferred the Bibey. The Bibey had stronger bass than the Lawson. And the "woof" of that thing nearly ran you out of the room. I know this all sounds a bit overblown, and after all I did just get back. But seriously, I was really taken with these two mandolins.

The Sam Bush model was equally impressive. In some ways, it actually felt like more instrument. Of course, the fretboard is slightly wider. That is noticeable, but I could easily adjust to it. But the Bush had a distinct tone for some reason. And honestly, the tone *sounded like Sam Bush*. @#$%(*^$? Surely, it was not the player.

I played the Fern for a while, and loved it, but for some reason it didn't get to me as much as the above three. It was set up a little low for my tastes, and that may have been part of it.,

I did focus heavily on the F5G, because it is within my price range (at $3800). At first I didn't love it (probably because I had been playing the Lawson), but with playing I began to like it more. It's a beautiful mandolin, really, and it rang quite nicely, had strong "chop" and was very clean and clear. As noted below, in the "below $4k" range, it ranked close to if not at the top, for me.

The two F9's were very very nice. Frankly, I expected not to like them. I just couldn't believe the hype about these being "the same as all the other Gibsons except for the details and finish work." But sure enough, the tone and volume on these were very strong. They were not in the same league as the signature models that I liked so much. They didn't have quite the bright, strong, clarity of the more expensive ones. Also, the two were slightly different, and one (the darker finished one) was a little better, I think. But both were good.

The used Gibson F5L (1988 model) that I played was ok, but not great. It was the weakest of any Gibson I played today.

So, for me, the issue has been put to bed. The Gibsons were far and away the best instruments I played today. All the new ones were wonderful, and each was indeed slightly different. In most respects, I would not describe the differences in terms of "better or worse," but in terms of personal preferences. Nice stuff.

And...

[J. Mark Lane]

Phoenix.

For the money, for my tastes, and based on what I was able to play today, these may be the best deal out there. These are really nice instruments. I would say, if you like the Gibson tone, you would like these. They barked much like a Gibson, and the overall tone, balance, etc. was similar.

Interestingly, to me anyway, the "Neo-Bluegrass" models sounded better than the "Bluegrass" models. And they were cheaper, too. In fact, it seemed like each Phoenix was priced differently, even within the same model designation. I couldn't figure out why. But the one that was priced about the lowest -- a Neo-Bluegrass at $2800 -- was my favorite. In fact, in the end, for the "under $4k" price, it became a hard decision between that one and the Gibson F5G (I didn't buy anything yet, more on that later).

At one point, I did a four way comparison for a while between the Phoenix mentioned above, the F5G, a Collings MF and an F9. I eliminated them in the following order: the Collings went first (see below); then the F9; then I had a hard time after that. I may slightly favor the Phoenix. We'll see....

I should mention, there are lots of little details about the Phoenix's that make them more intriguing. The tailpieces are unique, and appear to be the very epitome of sleek, function design. I liked them. The headstocks are nice, not overblown. The tuners seemed better than I lot I tried. The fretboards are cut off in an intelligent location (and are nicely radiused). (Incidentally, I really don't care about radiusing...I can enjoy them either way.)

I highly recommend checking these out. They're great.

[J. Mark Lane]

Weber.

I am actually struggling a bit on what to say about these. Let's do it this way.

The lower end Webers seemed pretty nice for the money. The lowest priced Weber I played, the Gallatin, played very nicely, felt good, had really nice highs and seemed very well constructed. At $1456, I guarantee you this is a better instrument than an Eastman, or anything else I have played in that price range (except maybe my Morris...which I had with me, and which held its own quite well throughout the day). It had very little bass response, and no woof at all. Volume was relatively low, but the sound was overall much better than any Asian import I played. Very good intermediate student instrument.

The Bitteroot, at $2140, was similar. Honestly, I didn't think there was a significant difference.

The Big Sky, at $3599, was uninspiring. That's all I wrote about it, "Thin, uninspiring." Of the Yellowstone, I wrote "slightly better than the Big Sky." Both of these were disappointing. For instruments in the same price range as a Gibson F5G, or a Collings MF, they're not even in the same league.

I played a "Big Horn," which looks kinda like a Phoenix (or one of those Gibsons like Jethro used to play, whatever you call it). It, too, was unimpressive, in the same price range.

[J. Mark Lane]

Collings.

I half expected to walk out of there today with a Collings MF. #In fact, I was almost certain that if they still had one of the blondes, I'd be taking it home. #They had two (plus a couple of bursts). #I didn't take them. #

This is not because I didn't love them. #I think that if I had shown up at a shop that had any one of these MF's, and did not happen to have the Gibsons, or the Phoenix's, I would have bought one. #They are very nice instruments. #Fit and finish are excellent. #And I love the satin finish on these blondes. #Very nice. #

The tone of the Collings's is, indeed, consistent. #I could hardly tell the difference one from the next. #Even between the MF and MT, I could discern little difference. #It's pretty remarkable, actually.

And the tone is...well, what's the word? #It's a specific tone. #Nothing else I played sounded like a Collings. #I don't really love the word (none of them are adequate), but "woody" comes to mind. #It's hard to describe it, if you haven't played one. #I really liked them. #And I would like to own one. #I'm just not sure it's quite what I'm looking for right now. #The tone of these things is very even, very balanced. #The highs don't "ring" quite like a Gibson, they more "resonate." #I didn't specifically test this, but thinking back, I wonder if they have less sustain than the Gibsons. #The chop is there, but it's not the same kind of chop. #For some reason, I want to say it's more of a "newgrass" sound, although that's also really silly. #

Whatever. #I can't explain it. #These are great instruments, but I don't think it's quite what I'm looking for. #What I'm looking for is truly as close as I can get to the traditional bluegrass sounding mandolin.

[J. Mark Lane]

The Rigels.... #I fully expected not to like these. #Boy was I wrong. #Looking at them, I had this thought like, "They can't sound like a real mandolin. #They look too strange." #But they sound great. #And they play like butter. #And the workmanship and finish are amazing. #I would like to own one of these some day. #I really would. #But again...I'm out for the traditional, and they certainly are not traditional. #They do have more "chop", and are much stronger on volume, than I expected. #I think you could play one of these in a bluegrass setting, easily. #Assuming nobody beat you up. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

The two used Flatirons that I played were significantly differently, surprisingly given that they were the same models but only three years apart. #The 1996 model had a nice tone, very sweet and clear, but was weak on bass. #At $3595, again, it was not the equal of the Gibson F5G. #Nor was it as strong as the Phoenix, or even the Gibson F9. #

The other Flatiron, also and Artist F5, was a 1993 model, and was actually much nicer. #It was very balanced, if not very strong on bass. #It sounded very clear and clean. #At $3499, it came close to making the final cut of instruments I might buy for under $4k. #But in the end, I think I'd go with a lower end Gibson first. #(I will say, this 1993 Flatiron was a close call, and the finish on it was really nice. #It's a prettier instrument than and F9, imo.)

The Breedlove Quartz. #I've played a few of these before, and didn't like them very much. #This one was no exception, really. #But one has to be fair. #This instrument is being offered for $959. #For a grand, it may be the best thing around. #It certainly sounded and felt like more mandolin than the Asian imports. #Louder, woodier, more "musical." #For a student, I would highly recommend one of these. #Indeed, as between, say, this and the Weber Gallatin or Bitteroot, I think I'd suggest the Breedlove...largely because it's half the price, and the Weber is not twice the instrument. #Very nice fretboard, very nice look. #A good buy.

[J. Mark Lane]

OK, a couple of comments on the imports. #

After all I had read here, I was anxious to try an Eastman. #In fact, that was the first thing I picked up after I washed my hands and settled in. #What can I say? #They were disappointing. #They sounded basically like the Michael Kelly's and Morgan Monroes and other comparable instruments. #Very thin, weak, low on volume, lacking in compexity of tone, just plain dull. #Sorry, I had hoped to say nice things about them. #But I want to be honest here, to the best of my humble abilities.

The Eastmans did look very nice. #They really did. #They certainly have the fit and finish over MK, for example. #Very impressive. #But...who cares? #

The one Kentucky I bothered to play was about the same. #It was a KM750, a fairly "high end" of the Chinese made instruments, and it was marked at $918. #I'd surely buy the Breedlove first, without blinking. #I'd buy the Breedlove first over the Eastmans, too. #

[J. Mark Lane]

What else? There was that odd 1975 "Givens." It didn't look like a Givens to me. And it sounded pretty lousy. My Givens Legacy A6 is ten times the instrument (and cost less than the price tag on this one).

Oh, the Mid-Mo's. The last time I played one of these was a couple of years ago. I recall thinking it was junk. Can't recall why, now. I played three. They were all pretty nice. The sound is very very different from what you get with an f-hole style mandolin. But for "Celtic" music or various other things, these would be great. I may buy one. Heck, they're only $500. Nice. Wow. I like.

Oh, ... he he he, you're wondering about the Apitius. I can't talk about it. I'll start crying. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif The Apitius was not hanging in the usual mandolin room, and I didn't see it until I was about ready to leave and wandered the other rooms, just for a quick survey. It was hanging in the archtop guitar room, oddly enough...along with another Apitius (slightly less money) and a Collings MF5. It was late, and I needed to leave, so I just grabbed the Grand Classic for a couple of minutes. It was awesome. At over $10k, it was the most expensive mandolin I played today. And because the price point put it significantly outside my research criteria, I didn't dwell on it. No doubt, I'd love to own it.

[J. Mark Lane]

Well, I'll stop here. It was a fun day. I will add that the folks at Mandolin Brothers were very nice. They welcomed me warmly when I walked in (it was cooold out), showed me where to hang my coat, showed me where to put my instrument case so I could take my Morris around with me to compare...and offered help if needed. Then they left me alone, which is what I wanted. I was able to walk about this amazing store and pick up and play anything I wanted.

A couple of really good musicians were in and out while I was there, playing instruments. What a wonderful thing. Nothing like what you get at Manny's or Sam Ash, with all manner of wankers playing shred on loud electrics or overblown basses or drums.... This was nice acoustic music. (I did hear a banjo being picked Scruggs style at one point...eeek!)

So, that's Mark's Great Adventure. The results? Stay tuned.... coming up soon, MASatisfaction.

[John Flynn]

Mark:

Great documentary. I can't wait to find out what mando you got. BTW, which Rigel models did you play?

[pickinpox]

Did you run into Joni Mitchell?......Sorry.....we wore that out on another thread.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

Mark:

Great documentary. I can't wait to find out what mando you got. BTW, which Rigel models did you play?
G110.

[s1m0n]

Hey, cool thread! Thanks.

Unless I'm mistaken, the blackface 3 point gibson is blurbed on their website as having a warping neck and "action as high as a kite". Was that your experience, or is it not nearly as noticable in actuality?

[J. Mark Lane]

Hey, cool thread! Thanks.

Unless I'm mistaken, the blackface 3 point gibson is blurbed on their website as having a warping neck and "action as high as a kite". Was that your experience, or is it not nearly as noticable in actuality?
Well, I only played it in the lower registers. And I think I played the F4 more. But I recall it playing very nicely. I'm surprised to hear that. Makes me wonder if it's the same instrument.

[MANDOLINMYSTER]

Excellent review! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[s1m0n]

Maybe the humidity level is different from the day it was described and the neck has straightened itself up.

[luckylarue]

Mark,

You're way too prudent. I'd have jumped the gun and taken one home with me. But, then again, obviously nothing must have really spoken to you, "This is the one!" Alas, many more waters to sample.

[J. Mark Lane]

No, lucky, several spoke to me. There's more to it. After all, consider that Mandolin Brothers is not the only source of mandolins on the planet <g>. I have written down some serial numbers from today, but I have a few other things to follow up on before I decide.

[Keith Newell]

Mark that has to be the best review of any place I have read, nice touch taking notes and keeping the descriptions to the point and very clear.
Keith

[Bob Sayers]

Great tour, Mark! I took the train up to NYC last spring and then the ferry over to Staten Island. I was looking for the Martin guitar of my dreams, but my attention was quickly diverted by the row of Gibson mandolins. I played most of the signature models that you mentioned. The one that took my breath away, though, was a wine red Wayne Benson model. It wasn't so much the sound--in fact, it seemed to lack some of the "bottom end" of the other Gibsons--but I just loved its satin red finish, white binding, and blue abalone fern. And the fit-and-finish, contrary to the claims of Gibson bashers, was (and is) absolutely flawless. I went away empty-handed. After a week, though, I couldn't stand it any longer and had Stan ship it down to me in D.C. A year later I'm still extremely happy with my purchase. It has a wonderful even sound which seems to have matured a bit. And I still love the wine red finish which harkens back to a much-beloved 1917 F-4 that I played for many years.

Bob

[Harry H]

Mark,

Thanks for all the effort, my brother!

If you have any other specific recollections of the Apitius,
I wish you post 'em.
How did the neck feel?
What did the sound compare to?

[mandoJeremy]

You lawyers are always so specific (and wordy) on details! I love that and I am still going to send you some pics J. Mark as soon as my friend returns my camera tomorrow. Great review. Thanks.

[R. Kane]

So Mark (if I may),

MandoBros is fun. But you're a named partner in a New York law firm (I checked Martindale), so you bill at $400+ per hour. You probably pocket half that amount. How much did your day off cost you? Work another day or two and buy the Apitius!

Richard http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[krishna]

What a great thread! Thanks for all the trouble you went to for 'little ole us"...Kerry

[J. Mark Lane]

LOL. Yeah, arcane, it costs me money to take a day off like that. But I will say this, being a "named partner in a New York law firm" does not necessarily mean you bill out at $400 an hour. Our billing rates a lower than that. We're just a small firm.

And speaking of lawyers.... Harry, I wish I had taken more time with the Apitius. I don't recall the neck shape or feel, other than the instrument felt very good in my hands. <g> It was beautiful, and it sounded as good as anything I touched that day, probably better. To my ears, and based on a very brief encounter with it, I recall my reaction being that it had the tone and feel of the expensive Gibsons. Bright, powerful. It was also a different room (a much bigger room), and that certainly had an impact. It surely was a beautiful instrument. Sorry I can't tell you more.

By the way, I edited my comments on the oval holes. My notes are confusing on those instruments. Sorry.

Hey Robt, why don't you post a pic of that Wayne Benson model?

Mark

[DorothyD]

Wow, Mark! What a great journey you just took us on! Thanks for sharing your adventure!
Dorothy

[kudzugypsy]

glad to hear you really liked the lawson. i also have heard those are very unique in the gibson line. no one can put their finger on the reason.
i bet a used "signature" series would suit your budget, unless you're looking for the full warranty.
so they didnt have any master models??

i am NOT trying to open the old gibson pricing thing again, but it speaks for itself when a NYC lawyer who really likes them best, passes because of the price. i remember back when i bought my first gibson, i thought that $2500 was a lot of money....i just dont see even today, that i could spend $7K+.

mark, the great thing about shopping and researching is that you get more specific about what you eventually want and will know it when you find it. you really have to play A LOT of mandos before you settle on what is best for you. the interesting thing, it seems, is that you havent narrowed your thinking down to just brand X, and are taking in the whole body of current makers.

its to bad there is no way to A/B the small luthiers (Rose, BRW, Brentrup, etc) against the big shops. that would be cool.

[Keith Miller]

Well the big green eyed monster has just struck http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif NOTHING like that choice here ! in the words of Monty Python..You lucky lucky B******
Great posts felt like I was almost there. I would go for the F4 myself.
Keith

[Fretbear]

Thanks, Mark, that was great.....

[ronlane3]

Mark,

Looking at the first picture of mandolins, the third row from the top that you can see, the furthest right side, is that a Distressed Master Model? If so, did you try to play it? If not, that is showing some real restraint.

[Leftyman]

Mark
loved your report, on mandolin Bros,which I realise is also my local Gibson dealership strange as it may seem. The MAS is strong, so inspired by you Iam planning a weekend trip.
So thats London - JFK - Manhatten - Statten Island ferry (which is apparently free, so that will reduse costs!)- and on to Mandolin heaven.
Iam glad to hear your Morris F5 'held its own',on the day. I will be taking delivery of my one (#71) in June thanks again for the advise.
Dave

[J. Mark Lane]

Ron -- Lord no, that's not a Master Model. That's a Collings MF. There was no Master Model there, that I saw. Too bad, I wanted to play one.

Keith -- The F4 would be a very nice mandolin to own. It sounded great. It's just not the sound I'm in the market for right now. But I will get one, eventually.

Kudzu -- just to be clear, I did not "pass on" any Gibson "because of the price." I am shopping in a particular price range, for very specific reasons. Part of my study plan is to reward myself at various points, by moving up a notch. But not by moving all the way up before I "deserve" it. So this is an intermediate step, for an intermediate player. Frankly, I had not planned to move up this fast, but I was feeling the limits of my current instruments, and I don't think that's ever a good idea. I don't want to get into the debate about pricing right now. Except perhaps in the relative sense, of commenting on the relative merits of instruments within the subject price range. Just to be clear...

Lefty -- yes, the Morris surprised me. I will try to write up a more detailed comparison and post it separately. I think it's worthwhile to do that. In short, the Morris had more volume than any instrument in there under $2000. It had far better treble and bass response on single notes and double stops than a number of instruments priced above $2k. The Morris chop is not that great -- it sounds a bit muddy. But it's surely better than the imports, and better than the low end Webers, imo. The Morris falls down a bit on the chop, though. But overall, it sure did prove itself, for an instrument that can be purchased for well under $1k.

Later,

Mark

[Jeffers]

Very interesting posts, Mark! I'm looking for a mandolin in the same price range within the next couple years. Was interested in trying Weber, Phoenix, Collings, Gibson, Flatiron, Breedlove, Rigel plus a few other smaller makers. Alas, never yet been in a shop where I could compare these instuments with each other. Thanks so much for sharing!

Jeffers

[AlanN]

Thanks for a very nice photo montage. I bought my first good mandolin back in 1978 at that store and your walk-through brought back memories.

No Loars in house?

[grsnovi]

Mark,

Great job!

I just did the Mandolin Bros. "day" the Monday prior to Thanksgiving. You should have posted a picture of the front of the building from the outside and then the view immediately as you open the door.

I also noticed that you didn't post a shot of the Gibson row in the room upstairs.

I also happen to be in the mood for another...

Prior to my Staten Island trip, I made a 4 hour drive from Portland, OR out to Kennewick, WA and had approx. 18 Gibsons to play (including several varnished examples: MM, Fern and (oddly enough) an F5G). I didn't bring one home that day - although when I left that morning I expected to.

Neither did one follow me home from Staten Island.

I did like the Bibey but it didn't whisper: "take me home" if you know what I mean.

I was really impressed by the people there. Had plenty of time to myself (literally had the place virtually to myself for several hours). Had a nice chat with Stan and left a happy camper despite not spending a dime.

After a year with my Collings MF, I do love its sound but I'm still not "comfortable" with the sharp V of the neck. I thought that I'd get used to it...

[jasona]

Very interesting review Mark. I quite agree with your reviews to the extent our mando experiences overlap. I've not played a Phoenix I didn't like. And you should be glad there was not a Master Model there--I still dream about the one I played.

Considering we seem to have similar ears, let me make a suggestion. Unless you get a chance to play one yourself, drop Summits from consideration. While they are powerful mandos, the lack a bit of the midrange complexity you get in Gibsons, Phoenixes and Collings. IMHO of course. And I think you'll like Silverangels...

Also: glad another has seen that the reputation that Rigel has for being quiet with no chop is undeserved. These things are really great sounding, powerful and loud instruments. I was seriously conidering one during my own upgrade shopping, before it came down to Old Wave and Ratcliff.

Enjoy the rest of your hunt!

[J. Mark Lane]

Yeah, I was planning to post a pic of the outside of the store, but when I got there I was so excited to go in, I didn't bother taking any outside pics. <g>.

As for the "room upstairs" -- you mean just up the steps toward the back? There were a few mandos up there, but I didn't see a "row" of Gibsons. Did I miss something?

Thanks for the tips and comments, guys. Stay tuned.... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[luckylarue]

There's nothing like spending many hours in a fine store tasting mandolin's. Especially when you have the green light to purchase something. May the Force be with you!

[mad dawg]

Great thread Mark. Your reviews were very balanced, well written, and inspiring, and I also enjoyed the your intro on the ride from Manhattan. And the pics of their walls of mandolins -- I've never seen anything so beautiful in a long time! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

(I think its time for a window-licking trip to Gryphon...)

[luckylarue]

Maybe we should start a Cafe pool - Which mando will Mark pick? The Neo-Bluegrass? The F5G? Any takers? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[cutbait2]

nice to take that much time for us "mando shop challenged" folks. i did a similar (but much shorter) essay about a trip to nashville, Gruhns, and gibson a couple years ago. its hard to beat the opportunity to try multiple instruments in that atmosphere. i walked into a used instrument shop in tallahassee not too long ago and i felt like a known shoplifter. another aside i took a trip to staten island from my southern home about 25 years ago to visit a college girlfried. i didn't know or hear of MB's but the food was awesome. Thanks again.....

[grsnovi]

Mark,

When I was there in November, the Gibsons were all up those few steps and around the corner towards the back (not the first room up the steps with the banjos, or the one straight ahead of that with the electrics).

And, unlike you, I drove over from the Jersey side and the toll was pretty steep on the bridge. I used to live in Jersey years ago and remember my folks hearding us all onto the Staten Island Ferry to do the "free ride" unfortunately nobody told one of my brothers not to get off on the Jersey side. We were on our way back to Manhattan before anyone noticed he was missing. Talk about frantic parents (maybe it was only one of them, my memory is a little hazy, I was only 10 or 12 at the time).

- Gary

[kudzugypsy]

i got ya mark.
my humble advice, however, would be to think at least 5 years down the road, per your abilities. you are doing the right thing, but dont rule out where you plan to be musically in a few years, and will that mando satisfy you then?
i like the buy once method, i see too many buy, sell, buy, sell, etc. ...usually, you end up with the instrument you could (should) have bought 5 years ago for 1/2 the price.
but shopping is all the fun anyway....now that i have cured my MAS, it seems to have taken some of the excitement. now i have to get down to the serious study, and have no more excuses.

[fatt-dad]

If you play on those 8-strings as fast as you type, you deserve the best mandolin you can find - irrespective of your billing rate! Wonderful post - one day I too would love to check out the Mandolin Brothers. Heck, I'd be happy with a t-shirt - ha.

f-d

[Undercover Brother]

Thank you for that awesome write-up Mark!
You've definately got me thinking I need to get my hands on a Phoenix just to see what the buzz is all about.
Can't wait to hear what you wind up with.
If you need directions to Gruhn's (and gas money)let me know.
I'd love to read another on-line tour of another Mando Mecca.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Chris

[Scotti Adams]

...great stuff JMark..thanks for the tour..I dont ever expect to get to Mando Bros....but you have peaked my interest.....BTW...have you talked to Dale???...

[neal]

Good post, Mark! I'm betting the Gibson. That is, unless he get's the Phoenix, at which point I'll delete this post.

Isn't it nice to be able to play a lot of high-end instruments in a laid-back setting?

[pickinpox]

I wonder how much the different conditions of the strings on these instruments affect the overall impression of each tasting. An extreme case but I once went into a music store and played a high end mandolin which almost sounded like it was stuffed full of socks. It had an old set of nickel strings which I'm sure was responsible for the poor tone. As some of the mandolins are played more than others on the wall perspiration, oils and grime deaden the strings to varying amounts. This throws an extra wrinkle into direct comparisons I suppose although generalaties about certain brands or styles probably remain obvious. Just thinking out loud.

[J. Mark Lane]

I don't think the strings were a significant factor. The strings were basically like new on pretty much every instrument I played. Most instruments were in tune, or very close. The only oddball was that one of the MF's had some sort of silver strings, maybe silk and steel. They actually sounded very good. I think, at least from my subjective point of view, it was a fair tasting.

[mandomick]

Nice Job Mark, I felt like I was there too!

[jim_n_virginia]

Mark great tour I really enjoyed it. Thanks!

I have a friend who just bought a house and moved their with her family, great to know that when I go visit her I can check out Man. Bros. too.

Just one thing Mark... I don't understand the reasoning behind buying only the mandolin that cooresponds with your level of playing. I have always heard to buy the best instrument that you can afford. That way you have what you really want and it makes learning easier if you are playing an instrument that is top quality and looks they way you want it.

Right now I have my Flatiron (that I love) and I will never part with it but if I had the means to get my dream mandolin (Gibson Master Model or Distressed Model) I would own it tomorrow!

Good luck in your search! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

Jim,

It's not so much that I'm buying a mandolin that corresponds to my level of playing. I am not worthy of what I am about to buy. It's more that my little study program provides for me to reward myself when I have reached a certain level. Then I'll reward myself again when I reach another level. Etc. As I said, I really wasn't at the level where I was supposed to get my next "reward," but I was trying to learn rhythm better and the instrument I have been playing was not making my ears happy on some kinds of chord work. The new one will.

Mark

[Links]

Great stuff, Mark!

I understand your "reward" theory, but I also agree with Virginia Jim and Kudzu. I have always encouraged everyone, even new learners, to buy the best they can afford (I guess that is the collector part coming out in me). One, I always think that instruments that are easier to play will encourage new players (this is not your case), but that also if they ever give it up, it is easier to get your money out of a finer instrument than a clunker. That said, I have always admired those folks (whom really I hate!)that can make an old junker sound great.

Your adventure has also helped me along with my search, and although I am still looking at some of the smaller makers, I am also going to consider some of the larger "traditional" makers. It has also made we get out my old F-4 that I bought from Harry West about12 years ago and re-string it and play it. Before I got my F-5's, I played it all the time, and I must say, in the privacy of your home, sitting watching TV, nothing sounds much sweeter. This is your thread, so I will post pictures under a new topic!

I think what you have done most of all is to illustrate that the "hunt" may be the most exciting part of the process. The internet, for the most part (in all it's glory), has taken away the adventure of beating the bushes and scaring up the mandolin of our dreams, Then again, without the internet you would not be sharing all of your adventures.

Can't wait 'til the next chapter!

[mandopaul]

Mark, thanks for the informative post...

Can you elaborate more on the Bitterroot's tone vs. the Eastman? Was the back Maple or Mahog.? I have a Mahog. back Bitt. and have (i think) plenty of bass, but never compared to another. How about the diff. between Bitt. & the '88 Flatiron? Thanks!

[mandopaul]

Mark, thanks for the informative post...

Can you elaborate more on the Bitterroot's tone vs. the Eastman? Was the back Maple or Mahog.? I have a Mahog. back Bitt. and have (i think) plenty of bass, but never compared to another. How about the diff. between Bitt. & the '88 Flatiron? Thanks!

[acousticphd]

In short, the Morris had more volume than any instrument in there under $2000. #It had far better treble and bass response on single notes and double stops than a number of instruments priced above $2k. #

Enjoyed your recount of your mando tasting and posts, thanks for that. There have been numerous discussions about the brand-new sound of various mandolins, whether they are great right out of the box, or need a break in period, and how long the opening up process takes. You have mentioned a little previously about how much your Morris F has improved, and you have obviously played it a lot. How much of an "unplayed" factor would you guess might have affected your opinion of some of the new mandos that you weren't so impressed with on this trip?

But obviously, as you found, some new instruments sound great immediately, and other well-played ones can be disappointing based on our expectations.

Question, to Mark and the Gibson-knowledgeable; what is the hierarchy of current Gibson models going up from the F9, and what is their approximate cost? What's the difference between a F5L and F5G? Is there virtually no middle ground between the $2K and $4K pricepoints?

For its price, I wonder if you might be drawn to reconsider the '93 Flatiron - this era of Flatirons seems the most highly regarded and sought after. But it sounds like you prefer the new F5G to the weathered Flatiron?

Maybe that Givens Legacy A6 will find itself for sale in your evolution/improvement process?

[J. Mark Lane]

Can you elaborate more on the Bitterroot's tone vs. the Eastman? #Was the back Maple or Mahog.? #I have a Mahog. back Bitt. and have (i think) plenty of bass, but never compared to another. #How about the diff. between Bitt. & the '88 Flatiron? #Thanks!
Well, let's see. First, the Bitteroot was a mahogany model. I didn't directly A-B it with an Eastman (I just played it). The bass was just not really there, but you have to recognize that I was also playing some really fine, much more expensive instruments (and so the bass I was hearing out of them distorted my expectations, perhaps). For $2k, the two lower end Webers were, imo, pretty good instruments. As I said, imo they were a whole lot better than the imports. The tone was nice, they felt good, they were well put together.

I don't really want to "bash" any maker. But there has been so much hype here about the Eastmans, that I felt it was worth making a critical comment or two. For a starter mandolin, perhaps they would be fine. They played very nicely, and looked great. I didn't really test intonation, but I assume it's good. And the company seems to be good about customer service. So I'm sure they serve a good purpose. I think they are seriously overpriced for what they are. 'Nuff said.

I don't think I played an '88 Flatiron. I played a 1993 and a 1996. I played a 1988 Gibson F5L. The two Flatirons were priced around $3500, and the Gibson about $5200. So they were priced in a very different category from the Bitteroot. And naturally, that was reflected in the sound. Again, I didn't directly A-B them with a Weber, but I am pretty clear in my memory that all three of these would be considerably better instruments than the Bitteroot (at least for the sound I was looking for). And of course, they should, at those prices.

Hope this helps.

[J. Mark Lane]

How much of an "unplayed" factor would you guess might have affected your opinion of some of the new mandos that you weren't so impressed with on this trip?

...

What's the difference between a F5L and F5G? #Is there virtually no middle ground between the $2K and $4K pricepoints?

...

For its price, I wonder if you might be drawn to reconsider the '93 Flatiron - this era of Flatirons seems the most highly regarded and sought after. #But it sounds like you prefer the new F5G to the weathered Flatiron?

...

Maybe that Givens Legacy A6 will find itself for sale in your evolution/improvement process?
OK, first, Yes...the Morris has "opened up," and continues to do so. I have been quite surprised by it, actually. I have long believed that "opening up" does occur, in many instruments. But I have also long believed that you have to start with a pretty high quality instrument before you really experience it. (All the talk about...uh, various low-end imports "opening up" has always struck me as ridiculous.) So, I didn't really expect the Morris, which costs around $850 new, to do this. But hey, what a pleasant surprise.

I think it is quite possible that a lot of the mandolins I played at MandoBros would open up and improve. Possibly the Webers, certainly the more expensive ones like the Gibsons, Phoenix's, Collings's, etc. I do not personally believe that the Eastmans, for example, will really experience much improvement. I don't know, it's just my opinion. Hopefully, I am wrong.


As to the Gibson F5L vs F5G, the F5L definitely sounded better. I have no idea why. I can only speculate that they select better woods for the higher end models (or perhaps they finish out the better sounding ones as higher end models, I don't know). As I said, the F5L didn't really strike me, perhaps partly due to the setup or strings or something. The F5G could benefit from some "opening up." It was not at the same level as the higher end Gibsons, that's for sure. But to my ear, it did sound better than the two F9's I played. It had greater clarity, and stronger trebles, and was louder. I liked it fine, for its price.... I do think the Phoenix Neo-Bluegrass is probably a better mandolin for the money (actually, $1000 less).

The 1993 Flatiron was pretty nice. But for the price, I think I preferred the F5G (which of course would have the benefit of a warranty, as well). But yeah, it was pretty nice.

As for the Givens, no, I don't think it's going on the market any time soon. It's having some major work done on it right at the moment, and after all that, I doubt that I will be able to afford to sell it. And I do happen to think it's one of the nicest mandolins I've played. It will be interesting to see how it compares to my *new* mandolin....<g>

[Yellowmandolin]

I was at the Showcase this past summer and did a similar experiment. There was only one F5L, 2 Bushes, 2 F5Gs (one with a Bush neck), an Adam Bibly and a Doyle Lawson. There was a distressed behind the counter which I also tried. The Lawson was by far my least favorite. It just didn't have nearly the clean, dry tone of the others. Of the rest, I felt they were all in the same range of excellence. However, I felt (and this is only the opinion of one person) that the F5L did not have the powerful woof and tone that the others had, including the F5Gs. The Distressed was amazing[B]too. Just my 2 cents.

[kudzugypsy]

great replys here mark,
you know there are only about 1/2 dozen music stores in the country that would allow you to play so many makers and models side by side. great to get some unbiased opinions.
good to know there is something out there for every level of picker and price point.

[lindensensei]

Hi Mark, first let me say I have wanted to do that Mandolin Bros. tour for a long time and may, yet. #Second, I have experienced the same quandry for a while in regard to the Gibsons you mentioned. #The result is that I own an F9, an F5G, and an F5L Fern. #They are different enough that once owning them, I could never let one go. #

I was recently told, however, that all the Gibsons are the same in the white. #That all are built to a cerain stage and then the they are grabbed at random for finishing to a 'G' or a '9' or even a 'Fern'. #I don't know if its true, but the fellow I heard it from seemed knowledgeable and sincere. #However they do it, they make them all unique.

Great job, Mark!

[Big Joe]

Hey Dan...That is close, but not exact. Each one has its own grading of wood for the type of grain or appearance they should have. If you look at the backs of the various models you will notice a pattern. Each has a different appearance. However, if we run out of a piece of wood for a model, and we have a piece that is a higher grade or better than normally used, we may still use it on the lesser expensive model. For example, some F9's may get a back from a Fern that would be much nicer than normal. An F5G may get one from a Lawson or http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif. Each are built to the same specs as far as graduations and wood type. We use a high grade on all of them but they are seperated by the model they are intended for. This should not alter the tone substantially, but helps account for the differnces in tone between the models. That and the slight differences. For example, the Lawson has bound F holes. This alters the tonal response. The Bush has the larger neck changing the tone. It goes on for each model. The Benson with the matte finish alters the tone a bit. The mandolins are built to the same specs as far as tap tuning, and cavity tuning, but differ in trim. The MM uses a different top, different glue, and different finish, but otherwise is very similar to the other mandolins. Hope this helps.

[Nora]

Thanks for the trip, Mark. You made us feel as though we were there, as well.
As a beginner student with a cheap mandolin(less than $100), it left me feeling bare, even naked. However, you have re-newed my dedication to be the best that I can be in hopes that a year from now that I can deservedly purchase a mandolin of better quality and that I will be called (not said to me but about me) a lousy mandolin player - at least that is being called a mandolin player. I will often refer to your notes.
Your rhythmic words have opened a new world to those of use who are new to this instrument. I nearly wept while reading your most eloquent essay.
Thanks, again, for all the encouragement this has brought.

[dtb]

thanks, that was very nice, for a Monday morning read and look-see.

[Lee]

Thanks for the heroic effort Mark.
Now quick, fly out to Elderly.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Too bad there weren't a couple higher end Czech mandolins to compare.

[Links]

Mark:

I noticed that a number of folks have chimed in about the expense of mandolins and what they can and cannot afford. You were also quite adamant that you were evaluating instruments in a very specific price range. I have a few stories that I hope will help some of those folks that are looking for a nice instrument but may be a little (or lot) financially challenged.

While I was in high school in the 1960's one of my classmates wanted a new Corvette (check that - all of my classmates wanted an new Corvette). For three solid years, this guy worked at the local supermarket as a bagboy for tips ($.10 - $.25 range in those days) and eventually saved enough to buy a 1963 Corvette Stingray, which he enjoyed during our senior year. My first instrument was a Gibson RB-170 that cost about $180.00. I was a high school student and financed it for two years at $10 a month, but by golly, I got it! I later traded it, plus cash, for a Mastertone while I was in college.

Later, I began collecting musical instruments when I was working making minimum wage with very little disposable income. I must say many that some of my better instruments were obtained during that period and I still have them today. Having to work to find good deals and figuring out how to pay for them tends to make you appreciate them more and helps build "character".

My recommendation is to maybe look a little beyond what you might be able to afford (not go into more debt - but save) and get an instrument that will retain or increase it's value. Look at your instrument as an investment as well.



[QUOTE]All generalizations are invalid - including this one!

[J. Mark Lane]

Yes, I was looking in a certain price range. #But I did also want to check out some of the less expensive instruments. #And, of course, I did so. #

I was perhaps a bit harsh on some of the lower-priced instruments (I've received a couple of emails suggesting as much...as well as several thanking me for my candor in that regard). #I will say, I intentionally played the lower priced instruments before getting into the more expensive ones, so as not to completely destroy my perspective. #But I did want to try to get a better handle on what people should be told when, as so often happens, they come here asking for advice on a starter mandolin (or an upgrade from something unplayable). #

The whole task is difficult, really. #I think most beginners these days are excited by the look and feel of the mandolin, as well as the sound (as they see and hear all of that in various artists that they and we love so much). #They want that look! #And they don't want to be told, "Forget it, go get yourself a Mid-Mo." #The Mid-Mo may be a far better musical instrument than a comparably priced "F" style mandolin. #But it won't have "that look", it won't have "that feel", and so they won't enjoy it.... They won't even buy it.

So the task of the teacher or helping hand is to steer the student in the direction of something that will meet both needs -- it will satisfy that excitement (and look like the thing Bill Monroe played), but also keep them interested musically, and be inspiring enough to draw them into the routine of daily practice. #

Some of the cheaper F style mandolins are so bad they are likely to fail on the latter point, even while doing fine on the former. #So I think it wise to steer people away from those. #But clearly there are plenty of "playable" low-end F's out there....The question is, which is the best instrument for a given amount of money? #Where is the balance best struck? #

I think your advice is good, John. #Save, struggle, work, do what it takes to get together enough cash to afford something that will make you happy. #Mandolins are complicated instruments, not easy to make (I would venture). #A good one is going to cost a fair amount of money. #You can buy a decent acoustic guitar for $600, but I'm not sure you can buy a decent F style mandolin for that much. #

I think if someone came to me and said "I must have an F style, and I'm on a very tight budget"...LOL, well, I'd first say "No, you must buy an A style mandolin," and then it becomes much easier. #If they stuck with the F thing, despite hard advice, I dunno.... #I think I'd suggest checking in with Howard Morris...but he only has a few instruments a year. #Maybe there are other small builders out there selling F's for under a grand, I don't know. #

Failing that, looking back, I guess the Eastmans do present a good option. #At least, if we're talking under a grand, maybe up to $1200.... #They sure do look nice, and are very well made. #Tonally, they will do, for a student, or an intermediate player on a budget (just do yourself a favor and DO NOT play a Gibson or a Collings or a Phoenix...you'll hate yourself <g>). #I would also perhaps urge saving a tiny bit more and going with the Weber Gallatin -- quite a decent instrument for $1500. #

I'm sure there are plenty of other options, I just didn't see them last week. #All the folks out there trying to deal with this, trying to cater to that market, and making quality products (like Eastman, Weber, Breedlove, etc.) should be thanked for their efforts. #

....Well, sorry, I didn't mean to be so long-winded (again).

Now, I gotta make dinner tonight. #That lovely wife who bought that nice D18 for me deserves some of my time and energy. #


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Links]

I agree with everything Mark said. It is complicated, but ultimately you just want to be happy with your purchase. I don't think that there is any question that every price range (and quality) of mandolin serves a purpose. So I understand that anything Mark may have said that was construed as critical or harsh toward a certain mandolin must be weighed against what he was trying to do.

Certainly there are folks that will buy a Kentucky or Michael Kelly, keep them forever and be totally happy. That is just fine, and they should know that they have a nice instrument that suits their needs! For others, the ultimate is a Loar and if they can afford one, I'll just have to envy them. (I guess if I took my own counsel, I would be saving for one).

[jefflester]

Great read, thanks Mark. I did the Mando Brothers visit back in late September, but was only there for about an hour and was nowhere near as thorough. But I also wasn't in search of an instrument.

[Jonathan Reinhardt]

Mark has done well to present us with a day (and more) in his mandolife. Certainly, making a list and checking it twice is a wise path. Pilgrimages are a wonderful thing.
Those who have spoken up on the Cafe as to their isolation, inexperience, or uncertainty can gain much from this kind of discussion.
And for those that have only a short window of opportunity, or any of the above, if you clear your head, synthesize what you read here, pay attention to what you hear out there in the live music world and recordings (bearing in mind they are recorded), can probably make decent judgements and purchases, even on internet transactions. Re: this, I speak from experience. Although I dislike purchasing an instrument without all that Mark has gone thru (hands on), I have purchased from a vast distance successfully. There are many excellent and reputable mandolin dealers (and owners), and our own classifieds, which Scott has worked so hard to keep as one of the finest sources available, provides an everchanging cornicopia of possibilities.
I hope all comes together, Mark, and you are satisfied. It is not my style to recommend, or get involved in such matters. There are many makers you probably will not get opportunity to check out for one reason or another, but you will undoubtedly find a fine instrument with your methodology, and that's what counts.

rasa

[Michael H Geimer]

What a great read. Brought me back to my trip out there last summer. Thanks Mark!

- Benig

[Larry Simonson]

---and a Quark for master Mark---

[lindensensei]

You know, I liked this idea (Shopping for comparison) so much I went out last night and looked at a bunch of mandolins at a local store - they did not have a single one for over a thousand, but a heck of a lot of them under 300.00. #I found an Epiphone (The Epiphone) for $189.00 that was so good, (REALLY) I bought it on the spot. #An A model, in all black with a pickup. #Complete surprise at how good it is. #I expect I will take it to partys and camping and be completely happy with it. #The point is, there are a few good ones out there really cheap! Does it stand up to the Gibsons? #Of course not, but a good set-up on my Gibson costs more than this entire mandolin.

[Gibsonman]

I live in the Baltimore area, and almost a yr. ago I drove up to Mandolin Bros. I will say this, when you are in a room by yourself, playing lets say the high end Gibsons, and you have several other high end instruments hanging on the walls, that are in tune, beleive me they all sound good, because the sound goes through all of them. It was a great trip, would love to do it again. When I was there they had 1 Gibson Master Model, and 1 Distressed Model. These 2 were not displayed on the walls. You had to ask for these. They were locked up in a differant room. They also had somebody with you when you played these. I ended up with the MM just love it.

[Don Grieser]

Hey Mark,
Nice to see you give such high regard to those Phoenix mandolins. They not only sound good, but they are one of the easiest mandolins to play. Just barely put your finger down and they note out cleanly. And they are light as a feather too. Let us know what you decide to get! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

Yeah, Don, that's one of the things that really struck me about the Phoenix's -- they are light as a feather. Very nice. I'm sure I will own one, either on this round or on another one down the line....

[Lee]

One day while re-stringing my Phoenix Deluxe I was holding it up away from me. Just then the neighbor got into her car and slammed the car door shut. The Phoenix picked up on the shock wave right out of the air and the strings began vibrating. I was rather amazed.

[Avi Ziv]

Mark - did you see any Phoenix Delux and Neo-Classical there, and if so - did you try them out? I'm interested in some comparisons. Building up to critical MAS....

Thanks for the nice review. I go there several times a year (I live about 40 min away) and always have a great time. Bought my Flatiron A5 Artist there several years ago - their treatment of you when shopping, is second to none (in my experience), end of story. The only thing I could wish for, is for MB to carry more CBOM's but perhaps there is not enough of a market for those and their wall are already covered with instruments as it is.

Avi

[J. Mark Lane]

Sorry for the delay in responding, Avi. I wanted to check my notes.

I can't recall if there were any Phoenix Neo-Classicals. I think there was a Deluxe. I didn't play any other than the Bluegrass and Neo-Bluegrass models. Just didn't have time. Every Phoenix that I played was, imo, more instrument than it's price tag would suggest, at least in the relative sense compared to the other items hanging in the store.