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View Full Version : Cheap Mandolins...worth the effort?



darthstar
Feb-08-2005, 12:22pm
Hey everyone...

I play guitar at the moment (passably...I'm no Garcia), but because I've become obsessed with listening to bluegrass (I pretty much play it exclusively on my mp3 player at work--helps me survive), I've decided to take up the Mandolin. This decision was accelerated as I walked to work the other day after going to court to fight a ticket (the wonderful thing about courthouses, there are always pawn-shops nearby). Well, I pulled a Mandolin off the pawn shop wall and gave it a few strums (my first ever) and the sound pretty much grabbed me by the testicles and had I had $300 in cash in my pocket, I would have had it. By the time I got to work, I was obsessed, and I found a cheap mandolin on e-bay...which should be here in a couple of weeks.

My question is threefold: Am I wasting my time trying the cheap mandolin, will it be an exercise in futility, and should I just plunk down $150 or so at a music store for a basic name-brand?

Thanks in advance for any advice...I figure the worst case scenario is I end up with two mandos...one I can take camping and to music festivals and one I treat like a goddess.

glauber
Feb-08-2005, 12:32pm
It depends on the mandolin, of course. A used mandolin for $300 could be a very good instrument. On the other hand, since you are new to the instrument, you may not be the best person to judge. Do you have anyone to help you test it? At the very least, check for low action (which may indicate it's a better instrument or one that has been set up). Or ask around here in the "Cafe", there are several people who could probably sell you a mandolin in that price range, and you would have a better chance of getting a good one. Fat Dad (sp?) comes to mind, although i haven't bought anything from him; he seems to have a good eye for less expensive instruments. Check the classifieds too.

I personally would much rather buy a good used instrument than a new one in this price range.

Lee
Feb-08-2005, 12:39pm
Where's Fatt-Dad??

glauber
Feb-08-2005, 12:56pm
http://www.fatt-dad.com/

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 1:01pm
A $150 mandolin almost certainly going to be an utter and complete piece of junk. Particularly if that is the "new" price from a "music store." It most likely won't stay in tune (even if it will get there in the first place), will not intonate properly, will be hard to play, will warp, fall apart, crack, sound like [insert expletive], and generally make you unhappy. Anything selling for even less than that would most likely not be worthy of providing kindling for your woodstove.

Next time, I'll tell you what I really think.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

glauber
Feb-08-2005, 1:03pm
Unless i misunderstood, the question was whether to pick up a $300 instrument in a pawn shop or add $150 (to $450) to pick up something in a music store.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 1:03pm
Yeah, I see the fat dad has a couple in the $200 range. I would buy one of those if I wanted a cheap but playable mandolin.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 1:05pm
Unless i misunderstood, the question was whether to pick up a $300 instrument in a pawn shop or add $150 (to $450) to pick up something in a music store.
Oh. Maybe I misunderstood. Still, even at $450 I wouldn't think you'd find anything worth buying at a regular retain store. But at least you're in the game at that price.

glauber
Feb-08-2005, 1:08pm
I agree, i think there is hardly anything worth buying new for less than $600-$700, but there are plenty of nice used instruments in the $300s.

darthstar
Feb-08-2005, 1:09pm
A $150 mandolin almost certainly going to be an utter and complete piece of junk. Particularly if that is the "new" price from a "music store." It most likely won't stay in tune (even if it will get there in the first place), will not intonate properly, will be hard to play, will warp, fall apart, crack, sound like [insert expletive], and generally make you unhappy. Anything selling for even less than that would most likely not be worthy of providing kindling for your woodstove.

Next time, I'll tell you what I really think.

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Thanks to you and Glauber...Maybe I ought to head back to that pawn shop and see how low I can haggle the guy...the mandolin looked to be in pretty good shape, and I suspect I could knock him down 50 or 60% with a pocketful of twenties.

I'm trying to remember the name of the mandolin at the pawn shop...Elder Creek or something like that...I could be confusing it with names I saw on the eye-candy links here. Maybe I'll go for a walk at lunch today and take another looksy.

I bought a cheap guitar once...don't have the heart to donate it to a school even...I'm thinking of pulling the strings, painting it, and using it to hold a bromeliade(air plant) on the wall.

Thanks again, gents/ladies.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 1:12pm
Just buy one from fat dad. He's honest, and the ones he has listed are actually pretty decent. I'd probably get that Japanese Kentucky 180. That's bound to be a decent instrument. The Korean 160 should be ok, too. Both under $300.

If you think you are going to find an F style mandolin for that kind of money, please do yourself a favor and think twice. You'll most likely end up with another instrument you wouldn't even donate to someone.

darthstar
Feb-08-2005, 1:30pm
Just buy one from fat dad. He's honest, and the ones he has listed are actually pretty decent. I'd probably get that Japanese Kentucky 180. That's bound to be a decent instrument. The Korean 160 should be ok, too. Both under $300.

If you think you are going to find an F style mandolin for that kind of money, please do yourself a favor and think twice. You'll most likely end up with another instrument you wouldn't even donate to someone.
Thanks...I'm looking at his site...one more question if you don't mind...I was looking at an A-style originally, and I love the F-style designs...is there much of a difference for a 'first mandolin'? I'll run this question by fat-dad as well.

Thanks again for the great advice everyone...Now I suppose I should try getting some work done...

luckylarue
Feb-08-2005, 1:34pm
Hey Darth Star,

Check out Mid-Mo Mandolins - handmade in the USA in the $400 - $600 range.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 1:41pm
With all due respect, anyone looking at f-hole style mandolins, and struck by the sound of them (and interested in bluegrass generally), is most likely not going to be pleased with the sound of a Mid-Mo. Just my opinion, of course.

Darth, as is very often noted around here, the differences between A and F styles are not tonal, all other things being equal. I would strongly suggest going with an A if your budget is under, say, $800. My first mandolin (about two years ago) was a Kentucky KM150, an A style. Very nice mando for the money (around $250, I think). I still own an A, a much more expensive one.

Michael H Geimer
Feb-08-2005, 1:42pm
" A $150 mandolin almost certainly going to be an utter and complete piece of junk. "

Sugar coating your prose again, Mark?

IMO - A Mid-Missouri would fit both your musical needs and your budget.

www.midmomandolin.com/

I went the cheapo-import-I'm-only-learning route, and that was a BIG MISTAKE.

Do yourself a big favor, and either commit to spending the Big Bucks on a quality solid wood carved top mandolin, or get a nice flat-top Mid-mo for around $400.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 2:00pm
Sugar coating your prose again, Mark?
Too many years in this lousy profession. Mamas, don't let yer babies grow up to be lawyers.

bmac
Feb-08-2005, 2:50pm
I agree that a Mid-Mo is a fine mando at a reasonable price I have played mine three hours per day for over a year and am still quite happy with it. Also look for a used one... They show up now and then.

I second the Fatt-Dad recommendation. He seems to have some interesting mandolins at reasonable prices. You'll often read his comments on this site. With his mandolins you can be assured they will be set up properly. They are all "used" but that is not necessarily bad. If you tell him what you need and the price you are willing to pay he may be able to help.

luckylarue
Feb-08-2005, 3:48pm
Darth,

Beware of lawyers around here who will attempt to corrupt and lead you astray. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif

darthstar
Feb-08-2005, 4:17pm
Darth,

Beware of lawyers around here who will attempt to corrupt and lead you astray. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
I've got a brother who's a lawyer...I know better...by the way, my cheapo-mandolin arrived today...yep, you get what you pay for...it'll make a nice flower-box.

I'll still pick up some decent strings for it and try giving it a tune. At least I can practice fingering the fretboard while I search for something playable. And it didn't cost me more than I'd pay for a bag of nugs, so no damage is done.

Thanks again, everyone, for the advice...I've emailed fatt-dad, and I'll be stopping at music stores for the next few weeks pulling different models off the wall and giving them a strum. In the meantime, I've got some guitar-work to appreciate (Derek Trucks thurs, Phil Lesh & Friends saturday)...

GnomeGrown
Feb-08-2005, 7:34pm
sounds like you have an excellent week planned out.....very jealous here!!!
topic at hand:
After cruising the cafe, I recently acquired a MK solid about a month ago...all solid wood, decent instrument. Got an excellent deal as well...

It was literally all the instrument I could afford, and in retrospect, I am glad I spent as much as possible (for me).
I suppose I could have gotten an ebay junker, but having something halfway decent to learn on is a joy indeed!

J. Mark Lane
Feb-08-2005, 8:10pm
Darth,

Beware of lawyers around here who will attempt to corrupt and lead you astray. #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif
....and will bill you by the hour for doing so.

Feb-08-2005, 8:11pm
A complete piece of junk. Come on people. He is just starting to play the mandolin. There is many good mandolins in the 300 dollar range. Exsecially for begginers. Just because it might not sound like a Gibson or another top brand doesn't mean its not going to be descent. Don't get me wrong, i love expensive instruments. But a mando for that kind of money would be great until you get more experienced and what not.

You might want to get an A-style if you are looking for loudness in that range. The A's seem to be louder but the tone on the F's seems to be clearer.

Well that's enough from me for now.

fatt-dad
Feb-09-2005, 9:02am
Well, you go out into the field on a warm fatt-Tuesday afternoon, come home to find that the wireless connection is not working and miss some postings at the 'cafe. Thanks for the feedback folks. Now to get darthstar tuned up and playing!

f-d

acousticphd
Feb-09-2005, 1:44pm
[/QUOTE]by the way, my cheapo-mandolin arrived today...yep, you get what you pay for...it'll make a nice flower-box.
I'll still pick up some decent strings for it and try giving it a tune. At least I can practice fingering the fretboard while I search for something playable. #And it didn't cost me more than I'd pay for a bag of nugs, so no damage is done.[QUOTE]

Boy, several comments/questions occurred to me in reading this post, but none so burning as, "How in the world did you end up getting the cheapo ebay mandolin on the same day as your original post??"

Sorry to hear you don't think much of it, though. Perhaps if you give it the best setup you can - hopefully you can do this yourself using your guitar knowledge - it will serve you OK as a learner instrument. My first mando was a Kentucky 150S, for about $200, and it was definitely not a piece of junk, so I think there are plenty of pretty good usable used instruments in the <$300 range if you go hunting for a 2nd. And why not; you want M.A.S. just like the rest of us, don't you?

When I decide to ever sell any of my "less" expensive mandos, I've decided to consign them to the Fatt-Dad online store. ("A F-D Best Value Pick!). http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

fatt-dad
Feb-09-2005, 4:38pm
When I decide to ever sell any of my "less" expensive mandos, I've decided to consign them to the Fatt-Dad online store. # ("A F-D Best Value Pick!). # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif
I'm flattered.

mandroid
Feb-09-2005, 4:47pm
I offer the idea of getting a travel mando [don't leave home without one] webber sweetpea, martin backpacker, as #examples, both well made, and eternally usefull, still under/around $300 http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif martin under $200

Nora
Feb-09-2005, 4:47pm
I'm the new kid on the block here (at 50 no less) and now I feel really ashamed,now. Mine is an $80 Johnson. But, what the hay, I'm learning on it. And right now, I'm not sure if I could even appreaciate the difference. I was in a music store a few weeks ago (they are few and far between here) and played a Kentucky (priced $650) and something else I can't remember. I heard the difference, but I can't see spending the money until I know what's best for me (and, of course, learn more). The store owner did offer to let me play some he keeps in back (so people don't just pick them up and bang on them) when he realized I was serious. I said 'No, thank you', but I'll be back in a year and play 'em all when I know more.

p.s.

fatt-dad

I can't find info about pentatonic scales on the lessons page here. Did I overlook it?

Thanks

darthstar
Feb-09-2005, 6:48pm
Okay, update on the cheapo-ebay mandolin...it's a solid piece of blown plastic(seriously--smells like glue)...I spent a good hour or so last night tuning it...Get the G tuned, move to the A, and the G gets out of tune, the D never tuned, and I almost popped the string tightening it (cheap strings)...also, the strings don't appear to be changeable (they're clamped on the back holder, and it doesn't come apart.

Fatt-dad did call me today, and he's going to test-drive his basic models, then let me know which he recommends...I'm cool with that as my main concern is getting an instrument that's playable, and one I can build on as I learn.

Thanks again for all the feedback...and I'll be back with more questions, etc. when I'm up and picking.

I will, however, post a picture of the flower-box when it's complete...it will make a good Xmas gift for musician friends (which means I'll be shelling out another ten bucks for another one this fall when it comes time for making new presents for friends)...it is a pretty piece of plastic, by the way...

Feb-09-2005, 7:39pm
I spent a good hour or so last night tuning it...Get the G tuned, move to the A, and the G gets out of tune, the D never tuned, and I almost popped the string tightening it (cheap strings)...also, the strings don't appear to be changeable (they're clamped on the back holder, and it doesn't come apart.



Maybe its you thats messing up on the tuning. If you tune it real fast it will not tune easily and the strings will tend to break. If it took you in hour to tune it then something is not right. I don't think its the mando either. Are you using an electronic tuner? When you buy new strings just get D'Addario J-74's, they are prob some of the best you can get. There only about 5 bucks too. Well i hope everything works out for you.

J. Mark Lane
Feb-09-2005, 8:49pm
Welcome, Nora. I'm glad to see you got signed on to the Cafe. It's one of the best things on the Internet.

Just try not to mention Gibs... oh, never mind.

Mark

darthstar
Feb-14-2005, 4:45pm
Maybe its you thats messing up on the tuning. If you tune it real fast it will not tune easily and the strings will tend to break. If it took you in hour to tune it then something is not right. I don't think its the mando either. Are you using an electronic tuner? When you buy new strings just get D'Addario J-74's, they are prob some of the best you can get. There only about 5 bucks too. Well i hope everything works out for you.

Thanks...yes, I was using an electric tuner (in part, because it was my first time trying to tune a mando, and also because I was trying to tune a toy, not an instrument...I can't emphasise this enough...you'll see pics of that one when it's ready for display). I did download the tuning tips from this site, and I'll go electric tuner-less after my new mando arrives (I refused to use an electric with my guitar until I learned to tune it by ear first, the same will go for my mandolin).

Feb-14-2005, 6:24pm
Im all for an electronic tuner darthstar. I was just asking if you used one. You don't want to rush your tuning though.

darthstar
Feb-14-2005, 6:51pm
Thanks...will do. I still don't want to be dependent on the electronic, though I will use it for backup...I'll be annoying enough to my neighbors as it is in the short term...god help me if I'm also out of tune. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Dawgrobber
Feb-28-2005, 4:03pm
" A $150 mandolin almost certainly going to be an utter and complete piece of junk. "

Sugar coating your prose again, Mark?

IMO - A Mid-Missouri would fit both your musical needs and your budget.

www.midmomandolin.com/

I went the cheapo-import-I'm-only-learning route, and that was a BIG MISTAKE.

Do yourself a big favor, and either commit to spending the Big Bucks on a quality solid wood carved top mandolin, or get a nice flat-top Mid-mo for around $400.

IMO - A Mid-Missouri would fit both your musical needs and your budget.

I live where Mid-Mo mandys are made and have been to the "factory." #Mike (the owner) and his small staff make very nice mandys. #I have one and it keeps in tune and sound nice.

I bought a Johnson (Korean) mandy off the internet because I could get it cheap with pickups. #The action was like a suspension bridge and was so high that I really could not play it. #With more courage than brains I reset the action myself (vvvvery carefully) and it plays, eh, OK now. #For $100 I figured that I could not go wrong.

My Mid-MO mandy is for when I want to play something I like to play and my electric is for when I want to play with the church band.

Don
Mar-01-2005, 7:56am
Didn't someone say something like "When you buy for quality,you only cry once".
Don.

duuuude
Mar-01-2005, 5:36pm
I dunno, personally I think a Johnson, Bestler, Rogue, what-have-you, is a great starter instrument, especially when wary that you may not take to it, but then I can't recall ever hearing that someone didn't like playin' mando. They're also good to have around after upgrading, take 'em camping, practice set-ups, building nuts, filing frets, etc., or pass it on to a friend after they get MAS from hearing how cool they sound.

I'll always have a soft spot in my heart for the pac-rims, it don't matter what ya play, just that ya play!

fatt-dad
Mar-02-2005, 11:29am
I can't find info about pentatonic scales on the lessons page here. #Did I overlook it?

Thanks
Oh well, maybe I was off track. Here are where you can find them though. (warning must have the tabedit viewer to enjoy this free advice). Go to www.mandozine.com click on the link for tabedit files and search for "pentatonic". You will get two hits. Download the scale exercizes and have at it! (Don't forget to download the tabedit viewer.)

Enjoy!

f-d

p.s., I sorry to be delinquent in my response, I just don't lurk in the equipment page very often.

JEStanek
Mar-03-2005, 9:40pm
I spent ~$100 on a Johnson mandolin (55 for the mandolin and 40 for the set up. #After I had a luthier lower the nut restring with some Elixer med. gauges and adjust the bridge I was good to go. #I have a better mando now but I still like playing with my "bad"mandolin. #I take it out and about with out a care and can let my two little one play with it (2 and 4 year olds). #When I got started I didn't have $100s to spend, and the $40 to the luthier was money well spent.

New strings and a set up can really polish up a cubic zirconia in the rough!

Jamie http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

MrTidy
Mar-03-2005, 11:04pm
jeez, I still pull out my $50 Rogue occasionally, it certainly got me interested in mandolin. My $300 F style Rover sounds much better and to me, is perfectly acceptable. "course, I've never played anything better!

gremlin
Mar-27-2005, 11:38am
I asked this same question when i first got here. I started out with a morgan monroe(bean blossom) a model and it was alright untill i actually learned a little more about playing. the G.A.S(guitar aquisition syndrome) kicked in a malady all musicians get. Now I have moved up to a Michael Kelly legacy, and a Dean. which i plan to move up to a breedlove or gibson soon as i find one i like in my range of 800-1000(used):blues: