Volume

[kurtwestphal]

I know the only real way to find a loud mandolin is to play as many as possible, but I'll ask anyway. I've been playing non-amplified guitar in groups for a long time, but only playing mandolin at home. My guitar is a very loud L-5, and volume has never been an issue. I have a 2- point Aria mandolin, and an Eastman 814. Both are very good sounding mandolins, but since I,ve started to play with others, volume has definitly been an issue. I 'm starting my search for a loud mandolin and find it's very difficult to tell just how loud a mando is in the store. Any thoughts or ideas are appreciated.

[ab4usa]

Kurt,
I have an Old Wave A that has the 2 banjo players in my jam session scratching their heads. It's fun to chop over them and then back off for the others. There was one in the classifieds, why not give it a test drive.

[Mike McCoy]

You might want to try a ToneGard on the mandos you have first if you haven't already.

[kurtwestphal]

Alan, I've sent you a PM. Kurt

[8ch(pl)]

A cast tailpiece will increase volume somewhat. If you are looking for a new mandolin, you will probably find a carved top will be a bit louder than a flat top, mostly due to the higher bridge.

[John Flynn]

You have probably tried this, but phosphor bronze strings, like J74s and J75s are louder than other types. Newer strings are generally louder than older ones. A pick with a bit of a point and a little bit of "snap" on the string release will yield more volume. I like the Dunlop Ultex 1.0 for that. Some people find that on some mandolins, an ivory bridge saddle will produce more volume. Also, a perfectly set up mando is generally louder than one that has just an OK set up.

Many previous posts on the board seem to indicate that brand-wise, Stiver mandolins have a reputation of being some of loudest mandolins made. I cannot vouch for that personally having never played one.

[jmkatcher]

I wasn't aware they made them any other way... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Flowerpot]

I have tried a recent Stiver that is loud indeed, well balanced too. I have also tried a couple of older ones which were not particularly loud, and were not very deep in tone.

My Dearstone (redwood top) is about the loudest thing I've had in my hands. When things get really hairy, it will cut through multiple banjos and several guitars. I like some of the more subtle tonal points of a good traditional spruce top, but the Dearstone has a huge chop and incredible projection. It may just be my mandolin, I don't know (not for sale in the classifieds or elsewhere), I've tried several other Dearstones, most of which were similar to mine but not quite as loud, and one which blows mine away. The louder ones, I think, are the ones which have been thrashed mercilessly for years.

[glauber]

Maybe one of these?

http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/uploads/national.jpg

[glauber]

You want volume? Here you go. (http://www.apollosaxes.com/banjocumbus.html)
I thought that was illegal.

But how about one of these?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/uploads/post-6-82720-Horn_mandolin.JPG

[Philip Halcomb]

Glauber what the @#@k are those? I've seen violins with that type of arrangement but never a mando. Cool stuff.

[Andrew Reckhart]

NEW Stivers are probably the loudest mandolins in existance. NEW Stvers also have great balanced tone and an awesome Bluegrass sound. I live in "Stiver Country" and gt to play lots of them. Some of the older ones aren't as great (some of them are amazing too though), but everything I've played that has been built in the last 8-10 years sounds really good and kills banjos dobros and even fiddles with ease. I love my 'A' and soon I'll have my 'F' to match it! For the money I haven't found anything that I personally like better.

[glauber]

Glauber what the @#@k are those? I've seen violins with that type of arrangement but never a mando. Cool stuff.
That was in a previous thread here. One of the opinions there was that someone had taken a Stroh violin and transformed it (not very skilfully) into a mandolin. I think that picture was from an eBay auction in France.

Stroh violins were invented during the time when recordings were done mechanically, as a way to concentrate the sound of the fiddle in one direction, so it records better. Nobody uses them for this anymore, but strangely they found a niche in Romanian (Transylvanian) music.

[fatt-dad]

My Stiver is a great LOUD mandolin. I also love (and other's walk across a jam and tell me this too) my 1983 pre-Gibson Flatiron A5-1. I have an Aria 2-point mandolin, which I really enjoy having in my collection, but it's no where as loud as as a well-made carved top mandolin. It just turns out that my two "banjo-killers" are a-models, but I would expect the F-models from either Stiver or Flatiron to be equally impressive (don't rule out Gibson though).

Good luck with your hunt. It's lots of fun.

fatt-dad

[MDW]

Before upgrading your Eastman I would try a cast tailpiece, toneguard, armrest, and wegen 2.0 mm mando pick. Total price will be about $180. You're almost guaranteed to be louder but if your not, all of those things can easily be removed and put on your next mandolin.

[kudzugypsy]

the cheap fix....jack your action up, put on some J75's, and use a HEAVY pick (and get the volume from your right hand)
quite honestly, that is all your gonna get.
i dont think spending money on new bridges, tailpieces, etc will get you very much on a lower end mando.

[fatt-dad]

i dont think spending money on new bridges, tailpieces, etc will get you very much on a lower end mando.
I really wonder whether the cast tailpiece gets you much on a higher-end mandolin. You know they may be nice, but I don't see Gibson using them. My two "best" mandolins (and plenty loud - Flatiron and Stiver) don't have them and I just wonder whether their just nice or if they really do something. I figure that if they really made a difference, Charlie would have started to use them on the Gibson lineup.

f-d

[jasona]

Think that better technique might help improve the volume too? Its what I've been working on for more volume, and it seems to be helping.

[kudzugypsy]

i believe those cast tailpieces are nice, BUT, in general, on an acoustic instrument, the more weight you add the less resonance you get. i had one on my old kentucky dawg, and i replaced it with a traditional one. it made a difference, as those cast tailpieces are heavy. even monteleone has gone with a lighter tailpiece on his new mandos using more of a violin design.

you can get more volume from your right hand than all the $$$$ upgrades ever will. try one of those wegen trimus 250/350 picks....i guarantee there is not a louder pick out there, they are as thick as a silver dollar and they'll move some serious air!

[luckylarue]

I agree w/ jasona, I think a lot of volume comes from technique and the hands. I tend to play rather quiet, esp. practicing alone, but when I've given my mando to a top-notch player, I've been amazed at the volume difference. Check out Dr. Dave Cohen's mandolins - mine is very loud but with beautiful tone.

[SternART]

Now a mandolin that is both LOUD..... and has beautiful tone....if it also felt right in your hand...would probably be a keeper.

[Lee]

QUOTE: "...in general, on an acoustic instrument, the more weight you add the less resonance you get."

True, if we're talking about a vibrating component. Some would suggest the cast tailpiece provides a solid anchor, whereas the stamped tailpiece might act to dampen some frequencies. Note how Weber's tailpiece brings the loop end to anchor all the way at the rear of the instrument anchoring directly into the end block so no part of the tailpiece vibrates.

[Tim Saxton]

One thing to consider about the volume is: Volume to whom?

I have a mandolin that is tough for me to hear while playing but cuts across very well. It seems that some instruments have a wide and shallow projection wile others have a narrow and long one. I hope you all understand what I'm trying to say.

If you could see the sound the one that seems louder would look more like a ball while the other that seems quiet would look like a cylinder.

So the mandolin that i have a hard time hearing while i play sounds good to the person across the jam circle.

just my $.01

Tim

[Bill Van Liere]

Stiver

[Scotti Adams]

The loudest mando Ive ever heard...hands down..was an Ellis I heard at IBMA 3 yrs ago.

[Mandomax]

I agree right hand is the most important component of volume. I had been resting my hand on my bridge and thought I had a killer tone. Whenever I played in a jam,however, my tone just seemed to disappear. Well, I was choking it with my right hand. I've spent 4-6 hours a day since my revelation revamping my technique to implement a modified Gypsy style picking method, with only my forearm resting on the edge of my mando. It sounds like a different mando.
My question is this: When people say "that is the loudest mando I've ever heard," does it hold true when different people pick the instrument? What's y'alls experience?
Thanks,
Max

[ronlane3]

I can appreciate the search for volume, but let me ask this. Can a player draw volume from a mandolin in such a way that they draw tone from one? Meaning, could someone like Doyle Lawson get more volume out of my mandolin than I can?

[GBG]

Wear a cowboy hat (wide brim) when you play. You will get more perceived volume from your mandolin. The brim reflects some of the sound back to your ears.

[John Flynn]

One thing to consider about the volume is: Volume to whom?
Good point. I have two mandos, a Rigel A+ and a Parsons Flat-top. People tell me the Rigel is noticeably louder. But I can hear myself better with the Parsons. I'm wondering if oval hole mandos are better for dispersing the sound, while F holes are better for projecting it.

[Scotti Adams]

Doyle can get volume and tone out of a tree stump..

[Jack Roberts]

I was in San Luis Obispo yesterday. I spoke with one of the builders at National Guitar. He says they are almost ready with their first lot of mandolins, and yes, they are loud.

[fatt-dad]

Then again you could go with a Rigel and ask for the chartruse finish - was that what you ment by "loud"?

ha.

f-d

[Juice6120]

I have a new Eastman 615 that is very loud , And for the price makes it even louder ! The loudest I have heard with acoustic resonance was surely Dan T of Alison Krauss AKUS. The Band I worked with opened for them in 97 at Carpenter center here in richmond. We were loading in and his Apitius was ringing outside. I know oliver is high end but the Resonance and Power were awesome compared to so many others I have heard. Yes I have heard givens, gilchrist etc the gilchrist and apitius were the loudest. Also the most expensive.

Mike

[Paul Hostetter]

I had the pleasure of playing guitar for several decades for a couple of terrific Italian mandolinists, Riccardo Tunzi who was from Ticino in Switzerland, and Tony Flores who was from Sicily. In those years I played with a number of other Italians, and I have to say they were, as a group, the most stentorian mandolin players I have ever heard. In general they played modest instruments, and they all played with the lightest pick - extra thin, cut to a point with a pair of scissors. It's the Italian way. Most of the Wegencrowd wouldn't know what to do with such a pick.

Last April I played Tony Flores's last concert - he was going down real fast with cancer and just barely managed to make the San Francisco Mandolin Festival. My pals Jody Stecher and Eric Thompson were also on the bill, so they finally had a chance to hear Tony play live. Jody observed that his and Tony's right hand style were extremely similar, and that was correct. Jody's also an incredibly powerful player.

My point here is that getting good volume and projection is more about technique than about instruments, string gauges, gear trivia or action. Tony played J-74s on a Yasuma A-5 copy (pressed solid top, ply body) with very low action. Jody plays the same strings on a fabulous Stan Miller A-5, medium action. Both are real easy to hear no matter what, but Tony's actually louder.

[Scotti Adams]

I have a new Eastman 615 that is very loud , And for the price makes it even louder ! The loudest I have heard with acoustic resonance was surely Dan T of Alison Krauss AKUS. The Band I worked with opened for them in 97 at Carpenter center here in richmond. We were loading in and his Apitius was ringing outside. I know oliver is high end but the Resonance and Power were awesome compared to so many others I have heard. Yes I have heard givens, gilchrist etc the gilchrist and apitius were the loudest. Also the most expensive.

Mike
Im not so sure Dan T. was playing an Apitius in '97....I know he played a black faced Flatiron for a long time.

[flairbzzt]

My mother-in-law isn't a mandolin, but she sure has the loud part down pat! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Baron Collins-Hill]

Pheonix Mandolins, i just played several and they were the loudest madnolins i have played in my life. really great guy as well.

[kurtwestphal]

Hi, PhishPhan, I agree with you totally. Since starting this thread, I aquired a Phoenix neo-classical through the cafe classifieds, and it has resolved my volume issue. Thanks all for the responses. -Kurt

[woodysny]

My Dearstone with redwood top is really loud, and it has great tone.