Folk of the Wood

[reeljigs]

There was a post below about purchasing an instrument from Folk of the Wood.
I personally have learned so much from this board and have been thankful for all the info people have been willing to share. I debated whether to post this, and finally decided to do it- only to help prevent some other person from going through what I did.

I purchased my first mandolin from FOTW. I called around, and they had some lower prices and (initially) helpful staff on the phone. I had never even played a mandolin before and needed a starter instrument. After much conversation and advice from them, I decided on an instrument and purchased it through them. I got it very quickly, no problems, etc.

After a few months, I quickly grew dissatisfied with this instrument. It did not have a great sound and the strings were hard to fret. FOTW claims to have a 100% exchange policy- meaning you can return the instrument you purchased from them and apply 100% of the price to a higher level instrument. So, I called them up and talked about exchanging it for another one. I had a better idea of what I wanted, and they also sold that make. They had what I wanted in stock. I sent my first mando back, and soon got my new one. Well, the new one that I received was the WRONG one. It was the right make but wrong style. I couldn't believe it. We had gone over the details like 3 times. Oh well. I called them back and explained the mistake. They said, oh sorry, we'll take care of that right away. He (my salesperson who I will call 'J') said to just keep that one until we get you the right one.

A few weeks went by, and I didn't hear anything. I called 'J' back and he said it was being sent out that week. Another week passes. I call back again. They ask for my name and am told that 'J' was not in. I try the next day, same answer. I try the next day and 'J' answers the phone. He says he will call the manufacturer right away and see what the delay is. I wait for him to call me back. He doesn't. I call back the next day and he says that another one won't be available for a few weeks. I am disappointed, but figure it is worth the wait to get the one I want and originally ordered.

A month goes by, and still no call from 'J'. I call back and he is conveniently not in. This goes on for a while. I am now beside myself. Why won't they send me the right mando??? I finally called the manufacturer myself. I didn't know what else to do. I am told that they have no record of an order of this model with FOTW. FOTW never placed an order for my correct mando! They called 'J' themselves. I got a call back from the manufacturer and they say they will get this mando made and send it to FOTW, but it was their busy season and it would take at 6-8 weeks. I am disappointed, but figure there is not much else to do but wait some more. In the meantime I am not wanting to play the 'wrong' mando they sent me. I didn't want to get any scratches on it because I knew I would be sending it back to them and wanted to keep it in new shape.

Finally, after some time, the mando is ready. I got a call from the manufacturer that they were shipping it to FOTW. I am very excited. After a few days, I called and spoke with 'J'. I am told that they received it and would be setting it up and sending it out the next day. Guess what?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif? A week goes by and I didn't get it. I called 'J', but he is not in. I called fed ex- and guess what?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif?? FEd Ex had tried 3 times to deliver it and each time FOTW refused delivery. I just couldn't believe this! What a pack of lies I was fed by FOTW. Such blatant dishonesty!!

So... I called the manufacturer. They couldn't believe it either.

To make an even longer story short, the manufacturer had fed ex return the mando to them. They set it up and sent it directly to me. I sent my 'wrong' mando to them. In the end, I got my mando. It took 4 months to get it and a lot of frustration, but am finally able to enjoy it. If it wasn't for the manufacturer stepping in, I would still not have it, and probably would have never gotten it. So much for FOTW's 100% exchange policy.

I wish I could name this manufacturer because they were GREAT, but I don't want to put them in an awkward position. I am so thankful for them. They were more than generous in helping me with this flaky dealer called FOTW.

So, what is the lesson here?......If there is something you want and FOTW has it in stock, you probably won't have many problems. But if you want to trade up an instrument or need any kind of customer service, you can't rely on them. Personally, I wouldn't even order a mando pick from them in the future. They don't deserve the business!

Phew... sorry that was so long. I hope my headaches with this retailer helps some other poor unsuspecting soul.

[delsbrother]

'W'?

[John Flynn]

reeljigs:

Thanks for sharing. I almost ordered from them once and I'm glad I didn't. Thanks to previous posts on the board, they are already off my list of people to do business with, but your post reinforces that. Finding out about people's experiences with builders and dealers is one of the great features of this board. It helps balance "buyer beware" with a little "dealer beware!"

[peterleyenaar]

reeljigs

That must have been extremely frustrating,I am glad you finally ended up with the mandolin that you wanted, you should perhaps mention the name of the company that helped you getting your mando, the deserve the recognition for making things right.

As for FOTW, there have been other reports of poor custumer service(in this case extremely poor, or customer disservice), that must be the kiss of death for a business .
Fortunately, all the music stores I've had business with treated me very well.

[Lane Pryce]

Yeah I say name em too.FOTW has been ID'd too many times and are right at the top of the "buyer be-ware" and "mando-player public enemy #1" lists.Good businesses deserve the extra attention too.Especially those that go the extra mile to cover for a really sorry vendor.Just my two!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif Lp This
mystery company is more than likely a buisness with a solid reputation to boot!!! Lp

[mmukav]

Reeljigs---congrats for being persistent and getting what you ordered. And it sounds like the manufacturer really bailed you out! They should be applauded. FOTW should be soundly boood again.

As far as FOTW goes, they're c*#p as far as I'm concerned. I too had probelms with them, starting with my first purchase, then my second (and last). And as far as James, the salesperson you wouldn't mention, but I will because I'll bet a lot of people will not only know his name but also agree with me, is a great example of what is wrong with that company. "Oh, we have that in stock, send me your money, I'll send it right out" (either never is sent or the wrong thing sent, or what is sent is set-up bad, damaged, or flawed). Weeks go by and you hear nothing, or James 'isn't in', or when he is it's "o-yea man, I'll get that in in 3 days, I just talked to the rep today", or "yea man, listen, you don't want what you ordered, it's no good, but I've got a great #&*%@ mando that's just killer for only $300 more, let me sell you that instead", only when you get it there's 2 big goober flaws in the lacquer finish that he never mentioned......

There have been a lot of threads concerning FOTW on this board, mostly negative. In my opinion, if you do deal with them, 'be afraid, be very afraid', but better yet, don't deal with them at all!

Elderly is great, Greg Boyd is great, FQMS is great, and I'm sure there's a few more that I can't remember, but FOTW is to be avoided altogether!

[Tom C]

I would also like to know what brand of mando. They did you good bypassing their own retailer.

[mmukav]

Quote (delsbrother @ Feb. 01 2005, 03:57)
'W'?

'E'?

HUH? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Jack Roberts]

This mandolin maker very much deserves recognition for excellent customer support. Who was it?

Jack

[Red Sakti]

I am gonna guess..um Weber?..and FOTW sound like they suk bigtime...never used em, now never wanna...wtg you fer sticking it to em!

[mpeknox]

'W'?
Sorry, would you like to buy a vowel?

[Red Sakti]

ROFL @ Mutant Dan's grunts, you guys always make me laff..

[Gary]

MM?

[mtnrose]

Warning: long post!
I used to want to give FOTW the benefit of doubt but these threads just show up too frequently. These problems seem to be status quo and not just flukes. My own recent experience mirrors the above posts.

I put a used Bitteroot OM that was on sale into layaway. I talked to 2 different guys who also checked with each other on this. A few days later I notice the internet price has jumped $250 but no mention of an update on the web page. A couple of weeks later I get a call from FOTW offering me the instrument for $250 less than the sale price if I can pay it off now which I was not able to do. They said they needed more space for new inventory. I think there was a cash flow problem or the previous owner had traded it in and was getting impatient.

In November I noticed on their updated webpage that MY instrument (which I had put in layaway 6 weeks ago) was now listed as a new arrival?http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif So I called to check/make payment and am informed that it was relisted in error and "
just" sold to some one else!!!! .....but they had ordered me a new one at same price even tho FOTW was taking a "serious financial loss on this." Then the guy muttered something about "he paid cash" so I think it was intentional on FOTW's part. I started thinking I
should just try to get my money back (fat chance). By now Im very skeptical so I called Paula Jean at Weber, and she confirmed that FOTW actually had contacted them and gave me a tracking number. So via the internet I watch as FOTW refuses delivery twice on a $3000+ instrument. Seems like it would be prudent to prevent shipping damage by accepting a delivery ASAP.

After its been there about 2days FOTW calls and says
"been there a couple of days but the office didnt tell me, otherwise we would have sent it already." I asked about the bracing, I think it was Nathan, opened the case and checked and exclaimed "oh"!
"Oh what" ?? I asked.
He replied "oh nothing, we'll send it out tomorrow (Friday) you should have it by Monday"

well by Weds. eve no instrument, so I call and am told somewhat defensivley that it was shipped, but they would check on it tomorrw and call me back....a couple of days later no call from FOTW but OM has arrived here. Date on box indicates it was shipped in Teusday not previous Friday. Why didnt they just tell me that when I called? I would have worried less. I impatiently wait 48 hours for the box to warm up, open up the case, carefully pick up instrument and the back tip of the upper point falls off.:( Should be an easy inexpensive fix, maybe I could even do it, at least it wasnt the peghead I tell myself. Then I noticed the prominent raised ridge by the lower point and the thumbsized VERY shiney areas (matte finish) by the treble F holes. Glue perhaps? Yup, repaired gouge by lower point, maybe even a crack or two. Now I know what "oh nothing" meant. If I had been informed of the damage and the repairs were done well (no thumb prints) I wouldnt have a problem. And I did get a new instrument afterall but this one transaction has had so many glitches I wont risk doing business with them again. Even tho it wasnt their fault the good folks at Weber offered to do the repair and fix the cosmetic issues but I decided against shipping it again and risking even more damage.....meanwhile that OM that has sold at least twice is still available on FOTW's website.

Becky

[Lane Pryce]

There ya have it folks.More validation to impress on us all that FOTW is a very slimey operation to say the least.Is Mickey still the owner or did he take the money and run? Lp

[mmukav]

As far as I know Mickey still owns it. Trouble is I got the feeling Mickey is way too busy with his 'Mickey teaches mandolin', or 'octave', or 'fiddle', videotapes to know what's going on there.

And MutantDan; I finally got it! Duh! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Links]

My goodness, what a bunch of jerks!

It appears to me that they tell so many lies they cannot possibly ever get a story straight. It seems like it would be a heck of a lot less trouble to tell the truth and do what you say. What a novel idea!

I have never set foot in their store (and now never will), but I can visualize them! I've known others just like them. I am surprised that any of the manor manufacturers will do business with them. I suspect that many of them will only sell to them COD, which explains why they refuse so many shipments.

This thread does a great service for the mandolin community and it is our [B]obligation to report folks like them!

[mad dawg]

Was the mandolin made in "U", "C", or "K"?

[atetone]

I almost traded a guitar and a mandolin to them a couple of years ago but I didn't feel right about the answers (or lack of answers) that I was getting so I didn't close the deal.
I am so glad now. These bad news stories about fotw just keep rolling in.
Whoever the mystery manufacturer is that went to the wall for you on this deserves big kudos for customer service. It doesn't seem to me that they would give a hoot about what FOTW thinks about them being identified. I just wonder why they still deal with those guys. The Fedex hassles and expenses alone would drive me away.

[telepbrman]

I placed cash down on a used Hyalite and had been told this and that...then the a week later, they said that the instrument had bracing issues and was being sent back to Weber, they said they had another instrument to sell me which was not a Weber, Breedlove, twice the price, and blah, blah, blah, manager after manager, talk, talk...a big waste. I am now waiting on my refund from FOTW's, and will be working with Elderly. Last item, I e-mailed Weber, they have no info from FOTW's about a Hyalite with bracing issues, and were happy I stuck to my guns, and stayed Weber, later, dy.

[Buddah]

I vented at length on this topic a couple of weeks ago in a different(but very similar)post. Suffice it to say that I feel your pain brother. FOTW won't be seeing any more of my money. Buddah

[Treetopper]

I also have done business with FOTW in the past and for the life of me I cannot figure out why the owner (Mickey) does not reply PERSONALLY to these problems. He has some underling do his dirtywork for him. My purchase went fine, but it was several years ago. I WILL NOT do business with them again.

[pickinpox]

I don't have an iron in this fire but it seems like FOTW is operating with little or no reserve capital. The catch 22 is that, with service like the above mentioned, they never shall. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Scotti Adams]

Although I have never dealt with FOTW....its safe to say that I would never intend to after reading countless posts of unhappy campers....Has anybody thought about contacting the BBB about your problems?

[MikeB]

Since I started the other FOTW thread, it seems only fair to report that they did, indeed, send me my DVD for free and with two free sets of strings. I know this does not cancel out years of doing bad business, James seems to be making a decent effort.

I give people the benefit of the doubt whenever possible. But, I keep my hand on my wallet....

[Buddah]

I posted this on the other FOTW thread in the general info section, thought I'd add it here as well. I filed a complaint with the BBB in New Mexico today. May or may not influence my own personal dealings with these guys, but certainly can't hurt. If even one person checks the public BBB record for FOTW and avoids dealing with them as a result, my time (and other complainants who've taken the time) will have been well spent.

[thistle3585]

Not to start a flaming, but what I don't understand is why is the manufacturer talking with the customer about a dealer's business? Regardless of whether the dealer is an idiot or not, I don't think it is appropriate that the manufacturer gets involved. If there is a problem, it should go through the dealer. If the dealer doesn't resolve it then the manufacturer should make a decision on whether they should continue that relationship.
The same thing came up recently on another thread, where someone got upset and called the manufacturer, and it seemed to escalate into a "he said, she said.". And that isn't the first time I've heard that. I can understand a manufacturer wanting to be helpful but as a dealer, I know I'd be upset if I found out that my supplier was disclosing info on shipments etc to my customer. Regardless of whether FOTW are bums or not, that isn't right.
Imagine what the dealer would have said if the customer had taken that tracking number, called the carrier and had the shipment rerouted to their house. Just my .02.

[Joe Singleton]

Maybe the "dealer" would have said "Great. I don't have to come up with $3000 capital on this one that I don't have to begin with". Just a thought........

And yes I did buy a used mando from FOTW that had serious condition problems not mentioned before I received it and SURPRISE!! they never answered my email after the sale.-

[mmukav]

I am amazed the dealer is still involved with them, but I guess if you're selling high volume, like FOTW claims they do, it's hard to just give that money up. Better to put up with some hassle if it means selling a lot of instruments year after year.

And I don't mean to pile on here either, but the 2 deals I did with them were both bad. The first instrument was dry as a bone, with a sunken top, and I had to wait over 2 months for the case to be sent to me. I then 'traded-up' to another one, (for which I paid full price--no discount), and that one had 2 huge smudge marks under the finish on the headstock and on the back. Of course, this was not related to me before I bought it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[mandoJeremy]

Let's see thistle...because the customer contacted the manufacturer. #Would you want your name screwed because of some POS dealer like FOTW if you were the one that built the instrument?

[J. Mark Lane]

Yeah, what a silly question. If the dealer doesn't respond properly, I would go straight to the manufacturer, in any product area.

And btw, if you had any doubts that FOTW are a bunch of complete jerks, have a look at their latest post in the other thread. This guy "James" is a real prize. He is now threatening people for "bashing" him and even made some vague reference to "shutting down" this message board. Have a look.

Mark

[Ted Eschliman]

I think enough has been said on this issue for a while. I locked the other thread and will do the same here.
Time to move on.