View Full Version : Frank's tone....
telepbrman
Jan-29-2005, 4:46am
Do you think Frank's tone is more due to the bone saddle or him baking his mando in the oven? Any scoop? Thanks, dy.
Two variables - his attack, his mandolin.
avanti
Jan-29-2005, 6:05am
When Frank was visiting here last year, I heard him sample several different mandolins. His Loar is great, but the sound comes from his right hand technique. He gets a similar tone from any mandolin he plays.
abram
Jan-29-2005, 12:42pm
Frank baked his mandolin in an oven!?!
hlebowi2
Jan-29-2005, 3:30pm
I was just at Frank's house today.
Do you want me to ask him next time I see him?
Howard
Flowerpot
Jan-29-2005, 4:29pm
I talked to a guy who was taking lessons from Frank, and he mentioned that Frank was adamant about using a very thin pick. That probably plays a part is his signature sound as well.
glauber
Jan-29-2005, 4:35pm
How thin was it? [insert Rodney Dangerfield joke here]
And forgive my newbieness, but who's Frank?
springer_spaniel
Jan-29-2005, 4:53pm
I had a lesson with him in November and he was using a very plain 1mm nylon black guitar pick.
jim simpson
Jan-29-2005, 5:19pm
I don't like the sound of a thin pick. I would think a 1mm pick would be considered at least a medium.
Flowerpot
Jan-29-2005, 6:09pm
It was probably three years ago when I talked to the guy taking lessons. He said Frank made him swear off his big thick tortoise picks, and then he handed me what he was told to use. It was a purple/pink plastic teardrop, felt like a piece of paper to me, had to be way less than 1mm. But that was a while ago. Take it for what it's worth.
Martin Jonas
Jan-29-2005, 6:32pm
A while ago it was reported here that Frank likes using 0.88mm Jim Dunlop nylon picks (the dark grey ones), and prefers them when they're very worn. As it happens, that's my own preference as well, but only on my bowlback. From springer_spaniel's post, it seems that he uses the Jim Dunlop 1mm nylons (black) now (or he may use both gauges alternatingly). I would call both of these medium in terms of mandolin picks, verging on heavy in guitar terms (there are another four gauges of progressively whiter and lighter Dunlop nylons below that).
Martin
Scotti Adams
Jan-29-2005, 6:42pm
..and for what its worth his bridge is made of epoxy..not bone. Plus...back when he lived in my neck of the woods my father witnessed his kids pouring milk in the f-holes of that ol mando. Thats probably been over 30 yrs ago. The last time I seen him he was using a pick comparable to a Fender extra heavy teardrop......believe me...."That" tone comes from "The" right hand....and that ol mandolin has a little to do with it....he played BRW #40 and it sounded as good if not better than that Loar...a good, seasoned musician can pull the tone out of a tree stump.
avanti
Jan-29-2005, 7:00pm
OK, here's the deal -- Frank plays with a 1mm Dunlop nylon pick. He denys the milk in the mando incident ever happened, Scotti, unless he was too drunk at the time to remember (he stopping drinking years ago). Willie also says he was there when the top on Frank's Loar was graduated, and Franks says that although he painted and baked that mandolin, the top or back has never been off it.
Also, he made the epoxy saddle when he worked at GE.
Scotti Adams
Jan-29-2005, 7:13pm
...well I stand corrected....although my father wouldnt lie to me.. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
hlebowi2
Jan-29-2005, 9:08pm
OK, here's the deal -- Frank plays with a 1mm Dunlop nylon pick. He denys the milk in the mando incident ever happened, Scotti, unless he was too drunk at the time to remember (he stopping drinking years ago). Willie also says he was there when the top on Frank's Loar was graduated, and Franks says that although he painted and baked that mandolin, the top or back has never been off it.
Also, he made the epoxy saddle when he worked at GE.
Avanti is right.
Frank gave me some of the black Dunlop 1mm and said I should use those.
Howard
mandolooter
Jan-29-2005, 10:56pm
Frank's my mando-hero and at a workshop he said 2 things regarding picks...1. allways use the same shape/size/thickness and 2. make sure its easy to replace in case ya loose it. His at the time was a teardrop shaped about 1mm thick. He played several mandos that folks had built or just had with them and they all sounded like Frank in his hands. He also said that radiused fretboards suck and he prefers flat. Im fairly sure I deciphered his sdrowkcab talk correcttly. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
mando_pete
Jan-29-2005, 11:00pm
Frank gave me the black nylon 1mm to try as well during my lesson, but I got better tone out of my Clayton Eagle 1mm on "my" mandolin. He recognized my discomfiture immediately and had me switch back to the Eagle.
The greatest part of being with Frank was the lesson. He has sooo much to "learn into you". And he is just so fun to be around. I had a private lesson with him as well that was scheduled for 1 hour and lasted 1 and a half. The only reason we stopped was my fingers hurt and I had a long drive home. If I could have kept going I'm sure Frank would have too.
BTW -- I love Frank, and I'm trying to set up a private lesson with him in his house this spring, but I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of his "tone". I'll take his technique anyday, and his insight into playing, but his tone is a little too scratchy for me. I love his playing style and color, but the tone just doesn't do it for me.
This isn't a slam on Frank, obviously I'm a big fan, just my opinion.
Curious what others think.
mandolooter
Jan-30-2005, 12:10am
Pete...I'd love to take some lessons from him and don't think your comments on his tone are a insult in the least. Everyone has there own idea of whats right for them and its not an issue to argue about, but respect, to each his own as they say. Its not so much his tone with me but what I find is his songs that he wrote sound so "familiar" to the sounds I come up with noodling on my mando. I seem to have the slowest left hand in the world and get 90% of my sound from my right hand and attack...plus I have a "weird" taste in music compared to most folks. Two things I allways remember when picking are these..."It wasn't a mistake if ya do it twice" (my guitar-picking neighbor) and "there's beauty in repetition" Prince.
Whether ya like his tone or not, he is a mando-pickin great guy and is as nice as they come!
OdnamNool
Jan-30-2005, 1:43am
Well, m'looter... #(phew... #All this time I thought perhaps you were a pilferer o' mandos! #Come to find out, by golly... #yer justa mando-lute-type-o-guy!
Now... what was my point... #Just to say that I understand your slow left hand... #Me too... #I'm slow all over.
Gotta go now! #It's time for me to (continue) to take down the Christmas tree! #HOW SLOW IS THAT? #I'm tryin'!
(Luckily, my friend sent me a couple of (no doubt wonderful) c.d.'s... #I'm gunna go crank 'em up now, while I embark upon the tasks at hand...) # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
mandolooter
Jan-30-2005, 12:18pm
Does that tree have any needles left, you do seem to be running a few daze late with gitting it down tho Im sure some mando music will help the process! PS don't light up near the thing!!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
glauber
Jan-30-2005, 2:35pm
"It wasn't a mistake if ya do it twice"
These are words i live by! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
And San Rafael, thanks, i need to check him out.
Re: picks: i personally think each one of us can make good sound with a range of pick shapes and thicknesses; it's a good thing to choose one kind and stick to it. Even best if it's not too expensive or too hard to find.
fatt-dad
Jan-30-2005, 2:53pm
"It wasn't a mistake if ya do it twice" (my guitar-picking neighbor)"
Mandolooter,
Can I add this to my quotation collection? If so, please provide correct citation. (Would it just be mandolooter's guitar-picking neighbor?)
f-d
p.s., quotation collection available at www.fatt-dad.com
grandmainger
Jan-30-2005, 3:02pm
<span style='font-size:17pt;line-height:100%'>Who on Earth is Frank???</span>
I can't think of any player called Frank, but if he does have a nice tone, I'm keen to try and get some recordings... So, Folks, who the heck are you talking about? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif
jim simpson
Jan-30-2005, 3:10pm
I'll answer in case you're not kidding.
It's Frank Wakefield. See threads on his tour. He is a legendary player for sure. There are recording available with Frank & Red Allen, The Greenbriar Boys, The Good Old Boys (w/David Nelson, Don Reno, Chubby Wise), and he's also on Grisman's Bluegrass Mandolin Extravaganza.
Flowerpot
Jan-30-2005, 3:14pm
Frank Wakefield. (Oops, I see somebody already chimed in with the answer.)
His tone, and technique, are... well... unique. Some like his tone and approach to the instrument, some really don't like it. His playing is not my cup of tea; I like hearing an ultra-clean, smooth delivery, and FW's playing is more... what's the opposite of subtle? That's not to diminish his contribution to the instrument, nor his stature as a performer. Let's say he's an acquired taste to some.
SternART
Jan-30-2005, 3:26pm
And Frank was an early mentor of David Grisman......Frank could really play the Monroe style back in the day, still can but has evolved a more personal vocabulary over the years. Grisman got a good head start learning from Frank.
grandmainger
Jan-30-2005, 4:37pm
Thanks for the answers, and no, I was not kidding... The name does ring a bell now, but Bluegrass is not quite my alley, so apart from Monroe... ;)
It kind of amused me that you guys went on about Frank for 23 posts, without ever mentionning his surname http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif so I thought I'd ask!
soapycows
Jan-30-2005, 4:56pm
Frank's Official Website (http://www.mossware.com/FrankLesn.html)
fatt-dad
Jan-30-2005, 6:58pm
I too had never heard of Frank Wakefield, but saw him about 2 months ago in Richmond, Virginia. I was impressed with his character (plenty of it) and his playing. I was also impressed with that mandolin!
f-d
Philip Halcomb
Jan-30-2005, 9:21pm
I jam with Frank once or twice a month. He hasn't made me get rid of my 2mm pick yet though. It's true he uses standard black nylon 1mm dunlop guitar picks. I've heard him play ultra clean many times, but he uses the Monroe style of picking with lots of notes. Definitely a great contributer to the Bluegrass style of mandolin. If you ever get to play with Wake Frankfield you'll notice one thing, the guy has a lot of soul.
mando_pete
Jan-31-2005, 9:48pm
I do want to add that he plays those picks on their thick sides, not the point.
I also would like to mention that I don't think anybody else in the world of Mandolin has made themselves more accessible to the average mandolin player than Frank has. The guy has a heart thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis ( hands spread wide apart ) big and he is willing to open it to anybody who loves music.
What better endorsement could one give a man than that ?
Pete
Martin Jonas
Feb-01-2005, 2:32am
I do want to add that he plays those picks on their thick sides, not the point.
He does? I am surprised to hear that. These picks have a heavily embossed logo on the wide side (presumably to improve grip), which goes to pretty close to the edge. I occasionally experiment with turning picks around, but although I don't dig in very deeply, the Dunlop Nylons are the ones that I have never managed to play cleanly when turned around. Frank must play very shallow to manage.
Martin
Almost two years after i had a workshop w/ frank at my house ( and meeting him for the first time )I attended a birthday party ( which Rob Coleman so graciously hosted )and after greeting frank and much to my chagrin, he responded : " Hi Keith " He mind, memory is very sharp,and he's so gracious and warm.
On the 1mm nylon dunlops, I don't think that's the key to his Tone. Jess Brock uses the same pick and he's about as smooth and clean as they come!
On a side note... about 6 years ago I bought a Goldtone banjo when I was just getting into bluegrass and what really sold me was that it was endorsed by "Legendary player, Frank Wakefield". Didn't know who he was at the time but I figured it had to be good if Frank Wakefield endorsed it! Didn't find out until later he's known as a mandolin picker! Ha HA HA!!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
kudzugypsy
Feb-02-2005, 6:48pm
i think the reason some mandolin players are unaware of the great Frank Wakefield is that he seemed to disappear from the radar for a while during the 80's & 90's. a lot of new pickers have no idea that he was THE man influencing players like grisman and the new acoustic lineage. people can quote monroe as grismans influence all they want, but i hear a lot more wakefield than monroe.
i just recently got the kitchen tapes about 6 months ago, and all i can say is TONE, TASTE, and TIMING. even the informal kitchen setting with an old reel recorder, you can hear that amazing tone.
a careful study of wakefields style will yield mucho to your playing.
btw, i think frank is the ONLY one who could pull off the monroe stuff even *better* than mon.
hlebowi2
Feb-02-2005, 8:33pm
I was visiting with Frank and his friend Marsha last night, having him sign some cd's that fellow Cafe'rs (sp?) had ordered and I thought, seeing they don't have internet access at home, they would get a kick out of this long thread about him. They did! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif