Some southpaw picking

[John Craton]

This afternoon I interviewed a prospective student who is left handed. Strange at it may seem, in all my years of teaching I've never had a left-handed student, so this leaves me with a few questions I'm hoping some of you might be able to answer, either as a fellow teacher or as a southpaw player.

I know that left-handed instruments are available, but the student's mother would prefer that her daughter learn to play in the standard fashion. It looks to me (as a right-hander) that one could learn to play an instrument with either hand on the fingerboard, provided that's the way they start from scratch. Obviously it would be nigh on to impossible for me to "switch hit" and finger a left-hand mando with my right hand, but if I'd learned that way from the beginning, would it work?

Teachers, what are your thoughts on this? And lefties, how do you manage? This may be a stupid question, but that's okay ... it comes from a stupid poster. (Those who can, do, and all that.)

Thanks!

[Tim Conroy]

Not a teacher, but I am a lefty who plays right-handed. #I also throw lefty, but bat righty. #Even stranger, I surf regular foot, but skateboard goofy foot. #To me it's less about what my handedness is than what feels natural for each particular activity. #My youngest daughter is right-handed in just about everything, but #to her only a lefty-strung instrument feels right. #

While I agree that it's possible to start someone off playing either way, since the muscle memory hasn't been developed yet, there will probably one way that seems more natural than the other. #If the student has no expectations about which is the 'correct' way to play, hand them the instrument and ask them to hold it however feels best (better use an A-style, so there's no scroll bias!) My feeling is that most people will have an inherent preference which does not necessarily correspond to which hand they write with, which is generally how people are labeled as right- or left-handed.

just my $0.02

[R. Kane]

Lefty playing righty here. I've played instruments righty for 40-odd years, having picked up an older brother's guitar when I was 12 (without possibility of changing the setup). I am too accustomed to righty to change, and that probably happened in the first few hours. At this point, it is not an issue. Assuming this is her first instrument, if your student keeps playing righty, she'll benefit from all the available instructional media, and from ease of following you, so she'll have early successes and learn faster. If she flips the mando right to left whithout changing the setup, she'll have a more difficult time learning, and breaking new ground with chord shapes and fingerings, but will have a unique sound and style (Albert King, Libba Cotton). If she's Jimi, she can do anything she wants and it won't matter. I'd recommend her playing righty unless she is committed to a lot of extra work with mirrors.

[Gail Hester]

I think it’s great for those of you who have the ability to make the switch. I have a good friend that is left handed. He was forced to learn to play the guitar right handed as a boy and after forty years of serious playing he still can’t strum or play rhythm worth a darn. He’s a fair player and musically very talented but continually struggles with his right hand. If he flips the guitar over he can strum like crazy but since he didn’t learn that way his right hand is lost. He curses the guy who forced him to play “backwards.” Since most professional mandolin players emphasize right hand (picking hand) technique, I’d work with Mother Nature not against.

-Chuck Hester

[TonyP]

Chris Thile is a lefty who plays righty. It would seem like the previous posts make good points. What feels good to her?

[mandocrucian]

It should not be mama's call as to which side the kid plays from.

Since it is at the beginning stages, the student ought to have the choice as to what feels more natural. #A beginner is not going to be playing a lot of chords, so for single line melodies, any A model can be flipped over to the opposite side. #Let the girl experiment for a couple of weeks, playing the same simple tunes both LHed and RHed. It will become evident to her if it is more natural playing from one side or the other.

Teachers who refuse to teach students anything but RHed are either lazy, or dogmatic, or worse, both.

Aside from chord diagrams, all the printed and audio instructional material is just as valid for LHers. (And I've added an 8-page LH supplement to my Guide To Mandolin Chords)

You know, what Chris Thile does or doesn't do is completely irrelevant to the situation. She isn't him. Maybe he would be even better if he'd played LHed. Or maybe he would have just gotten to the same point a bit sooner. #There's no way to tell.

I'm RHed and I play RHed. But I also have a couple of LHed strung instruments and I put in time playing from the other side too. I've done that to enhance my teaching program for beginner students (by forcing myself to reexperience that level). Playing LHed has #also considerably improved my fingerpicking and pick+fingers an 2-handed tapping skills when playing RHed. #

For a presentation of the "leftys should play lefty" proposition, you may want to read
Ryan Thomson's article re: LH fiddle playing (http://home.tiac.net/~cfiddle/stringsarticle2001.html)

Niles H

[Harry H]

Hi Folks,

I was really struck by Chuck Hester's post.

I am a lefty who plays righty, starting about 32 years ago.
When I started out playing it didn't seem to make any difference if
I played right or left handed. You know, the notes came out the same either way and some people are more ambidextrous than
others, blah blah.

The honest to God real reason I went with the right handed approach because my first teacher, Ellis Posner in NYC,
traded, swapped and bought guitars all the time and I realized it was a 'trading game' (anybody else feel that way?). And there's
more right handed guitars and mandos out there to trade for, right?

After about 10 years of playing, I realized that my left hand had/has
slightly better rhythm than my right hand. It's something that doesn't get in the way most of the time and I can work around it if there's
a problem, but, If I had to do it all over, I would try it left handed.

I don't know if most lefties mind looking at right handed instructional 'media' (they're probably used to it because it's a
right-handed world). FWIW, as a lefty playing righty, If I'm playing with somebody who's left handed, I can see what they're doing just fine.

Operaguy, I guess it's up to you to evaluate your student's
physical #and mental abilities and help her make the best call.
Good luck and thanks for looking for advice on this subject.

[ab4usa]

I'm a lefty who plays that way. I can do several things right handed but it was evident to me that I would never have the dexterity to pick right handed.

We lefty's are used to living in a right handed world and can easily adapt to right handed teaching materials and music.

I think the posts about letting the student choose are correct. I know I would have a world of mandos to play if I was a righty but I also knew I would never have any speed or sense of timing playing right handed.

[John Craton]

I sincerely appreciate all the input, especially from you lefties. As I said, it's odd that in all the years I've taught this is my first left-handed student, so this is a learning experience for me too. The girl in question is semi-ambidextrous, writing with the left hand but doing some other things with the right hand. I think I'll do as suggested -- hand her an instrument and see how she holds it without any coaxing. The girl herself seemed to prefer learning to play right-handed (not just her mom), so I have a feeling I know which way she'll hold it. But if she flips it, then I guess I'm off to the races to learn how to teach mirror-style. Thanks again!

[Keith Wallen]

Hey Operaguy. I am also a lefty that play's right. I write left handed but throw baseball right handed. When I started I felt like both hands needed to be very well coordinated so it didn't seem to matter much which way would be better. In the beginning learning the notes and the chord stretches your hand has to do was easier done with my predominant left hand. I still feel like the more coordinated hand should be doing the noting. I might have her try both way's a little bit before letting her make the decision and see which way she picks up on faster.
Side note: I bat right handed but I think they just have it labeled wrong and should be called left handed when you’re leading with the left arm. It's the one that does the swinging. Instruments are labeled wrong too.... I think most of you right hand’ers would do better playing left handed... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[mandodebbie]

I am a lefty and I play righty. It's this way, you see, I have a mighty brain connected to my body and it's respective appendages. If i can operate a righthanded can opener, door handles, and a multitude of things designed for the right-handed world, then I am sightly more skilled at everything than if I cop out and switch to lefty designed things. Incuding the mando. So, I don't strum like Bill Monroe. That means my mighty brain just has to work a little harder connecting the music to my hands. It is good for character, people. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Harry H]

I might have her try both way's a little bit before letting her make the decision and see which way she picks up on faster.

Hey Operaguy,

I think Keith is exactly right. Let her try it both ways for a little bit!

By the way, I want to congratulate you again for taking the time
and trouble to get different opinions on this matter.

I had a friend in the '80's who used to teach huge public school
guitar classes here in Texas. She told me she made everybody
play right handed!

I was dumbfounded! I asked her why and she said,
" Well, you play pretty good right-handed",
then topped it off with,
"It messes up the ensemble when I have one or two lefties!"
I got soooo mad!

[ironlionzion]

i am a lefty and i play a left handed instrument. when i was 18 i was in highschool and played guitar with an english teacher of mine that was left handed but played a right handed guitar and mando...he told me that he regrated ever playing right handed....also told me to stop playing guitar and concentrate on mando LEFT handed reganrdless of the difficulty of finding a left handed mando, i converted an A style and will never touched a guitar again. their are plenty of left handed F styles( i own a left handed MK) but most have to be speacial ordered but all in all i recondmend letting the student decided
Steve

[cheesecutter]

Right or Left to each their own but wouldn't stringing a righthanded built A or F model for the Lefthand go against the bass and treble tone bars. What would be the effect to tone on each end. Perhaps the lefty should play a lefty built instrument. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[John Craton]

Out of curiosity, do any of you lefties play woodwinds and, if so do you hold them in standard right-hand fashion? Does doing so give you the willies? The closest I've come to facing the problem lefties must face is when I tried to learn to play a shakuhachi flute. Rather than being held left-hand top, right-hand bottom as western woodwinds (such as the recorder) are held, it is fingered with the right hand on the top and left hand on the bottom. Kind of made my head spin at first, but eventually you get used to it.

[Eugene]

This comes up with some frequency. #I am a lefty. #Every instrument I have endeavored to play, I have done so in standard fashion, neck in left hand: guitars (both with plectrum and classical, plucking with the fingers); mandolins (both with plectrum and with fingers on the early 6-course instrument); lute relatives; occarina; Native American cedar flute; brief, ill-fated stints with piano, violin, and banjo; etc.

There is nothing natural about the job either hand does in playing a necked chordophone...or any musical instrument for that matter. #I would argue/have argued that whichever hand does whatever task is almost completely arbitrary. #I don't even believe that the standard method of play should be considered "right handed." #How often do you hear pianists or violinists clamoring for "lefty" instruments? #I suppose it happens occasionally with violinists, but seeing a professional, classically trained violinist with the neck of the instrument in his/her right hand is extremely rare, much rarer than left handedness. #There seem to be occasional lefties who must place the neck of a musical instrument in their right hand to function, but this seems to me to be very rare. #I would always recommend any complete beginner at least try to learn in the standard fashion. #

This consideration should be secondary, but I am a great fan of historic instruments. #If I had learned to play with the neck in my right hand, accessability to all those beautiful ancient things would be precluded for me. #It may be shallow, but if your student develops a similar taste, it would be a shame to cut her off from this realm.

[ab4usa]

John,

Lefty and play that way. I played clarinet in Jr High and it didn't give me the willies at all. Before that, however I took some piano lessons and it was MUCH easier to play the bass parts than the treble. For me it's a dexterity thing. Playing the clarinet you had your fingers on each note. With the paino and the mandolin, you have to find the correct key or string quickly and in time. That was difficult for me with the right hand.

[levin4now]

Lefty here. When I was going to buy a guitar 13 years ago, to learn from scratch, I felt like I needed an lefty guitar. (All my air-guitar attempts were lefty!). The best advice I got was that 99% of the guitars I would come across in life would probably be righty and I wouldn't be able to play them.

I learned right.

Just imagine finding a Loar and not being able to play it!

[Eugene]

Lefty and play that way. #I played clarinet in Jr High and it didn't give me the willies at all. #Before that, however I took some piano lessons and it was MUCH easier to play the bass parts than the treble. #For me it's a dexterity thing. #Playing the clarinet you had your fingers on each note. #With the paino and the mandolin, you have to find the correct key or string quickly and in time. #That was difficult for me with the right hand.
I'm not quite following, Alan. By "that way," do you mean you are playing with the neck of the mandolin in your right hand? Playing bass on a piano would seem to be much more analogous to playing a mandolin in standard fashion, with the left hand on the neck. The activity of the fretting hand seems a much more piano-like technique than the business of wagging a plectrum.

[Hotspur]

I'm a lefty playing lefty. The mandolin has a great option for a lefty that steel string guitar doesn't have (due to asymetrical bracing). With an instrument that has A shape and X bracing . . . put on a new nut, a new bridge insert, some side dots and the instrument is ready for a lefty. I echo the comments of those who say that the student should play the way that feels natural. I started playing guitar 42 years ago with a classical (fan-braced) guitar as a rightie at the insistence of my instructor. It didn't feel right and I wasn't making a lot of progress. We switched the guitar (no big deal on a classical guitar) and I made rapid progress. It is a hurdle to be left handed but it has nothing to do with reading music, tablature, chord diagrams etc. It is just getting access to instruments. Today, we have a rennaisance for lefties . . . many instruments are available either on the market (search Google) or as a special order.

[Rroyd]

Lefty, but when I first picked up a guitar, I played it right-handed, and I don't recall even experimenting with playing the other way. From then on every instrument I learned to play was done right-handed without a second thought. To me, the difference in stringed instruments in contrast to other types mentioned here is that with the keyboards and woodwinds, the hands and fingers are doing the same types of movements, and the position of the hands in relation to each other and the instrument should be irrelevant. The great difference in the bow or pick motions in relation to fingering the fret or fingerboard is the major consideration, and in recent years I have wondered whether my lack of success with the fiddle was due to a lesser degree of coordination in the right hand and arm or my impatience with immediate results. If your student is comfortable playing it right-handed, and has the dexterity to be comfortable with the pick, then go right-handed, but if the pick hand motions are stiff and awkward, try it the other way and see if it makes a difference.

[ab4usa]

Eugene,

Yes neck in my right hand. When I played the piano (and it was more years ago than I want to admit) it was much easier for me to get the left hand part right and I continued to struggle with the right hand part. I had a very brief experience with guitar about the same time and I never could pick with good timing. Since I can type with 10 fingers I guess fingering the fretboard with my right hand isn't a problem. It also felt more natural to hold the neck in my right hand.

[Eugene]

We switched the guitar (no big deal on a classical guitar) and I made rapid progress.
Just to inform anybody else who might consider this with a classical guitar (no offense intended, Hotspur), most modern (post-1960s) fan braced and early non-Spanish, non-fan braced classical guitars are slightly asymmetrically braced to reinforce the treble. #Approach re-nutting with caution.

[Eagles1986]

I'm a lefty here and I play left handed. When I first picked up a guitar I was advised to learn right handed but I eventually went back to left handed because I just couldn't do it. When I took up the mandolin I just got them to remove the pick guard and nut and it was ready to go.

Peace,

Kevin

[Lefty&French]

If I say I'm righty, you won't believe me ! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
Playing lefty since... 1966, I agree with you Hotspur:
"It is a hurdle to be left handed but it has nothing to do with reading music, tablature, chord diagrams etc. It is just getting access to instruments. Today, we have a rennaisance for lefties . . . many instruments are available either on the market (search Google) or as a special order."
And It seems to me left-handed players speak mostly for themselves (It works for me)and don't think they're holding truth.
(Excuse my poor english, please)

[BluegrassPhilfromFrance]

No Leftphil, it is not poor english you're speaking and writing !
But for y'all lefties, what about starting PIANO ?
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif





... just kidding !!!

[Christopher Howard-Williams]

Not a lefty (no more than Phil) but also from France. Lefty is a real southpaw tho' and I have the pleasure to play with him (mandolin that is). I just thought I'd make this three French posts in a row #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[Lefty&French]

Piano ? I tried restringing it in a lefty mode, but it didn't work ... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
Seriously, I was wondering about the existence of lefty vintage F. I didn't find any.