Question about selling an instrument online

[David M.]

Wonder if Scott will let me keep this here since it's about fiddles, but it's also about the scams mentioned here before.

Yesterday I posted a Hopf copy fiddle I want to sell on usedviolins.com. I got 5 hits overnight. Only one seems to have good use of the English language, at least the way it's used in the US. My guess is maybe one or 2 are from UK and don't know about the rest. I didn't really want to ship overseas, but I guess I would if they wanted to pay for the shipping.

Each inquiry says they're interested in buying the violin and wondered if a cashier's check is OK.

My question: Should I do this? How can you tell if it's a FAKE cashier's check? How long to clear a cashier's check?

All the selling I've done has been through the mandolincafe, so I have no experience w/this. Thanks for the advice.

[David M.]

Here's the best response to date that I've gotten. Made me laugh outloud.

<<<hello, am a business man that base in the state , i saw your advert ( Hopf violin ) in which am interested in for a cutomer of mine which is ready and willing to buy it and as for the price am okay with it and i want to let you know that i will offer you $720 for you to keep it for me and as for the payment it will be by cheque ,cause i have client in the state that is owing me 2500$ and willing to pay me by cheque so i will have to instruct him to send the cheque to you on my behalf and you get the cheque deposited and when the cheque clear you can send the rest balance to my shipping agent in which he will come for the pick up at your destination ,if this is ok by you kindly get to me with the following information so that the cheque can be mailed out to you ,
(1)to whom to address the cheque to.-------------
(2)full home address-------------
(3)city---------------------
(4)state------------------
(4)country-------------------
(5)mobile number-----------------
hope to read from you now>>>>>


http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Jim M.]

If the cashier's check is drawn on a bank that has branches in your area, take it to that bank and they should confirm right away. If it's not from your area, call the bank it's drawn on to confirm. Or, take it to your bank, and they can call the bank it's drawn on, or they should be able to clear it within a day or two. Hold the instrument until the check clears.

[duuuude]

I'd consider about any cashier's check for an amount over the cost as a potential scam, seems to be the popular one these days. Just read a story about a guy selling his soul on ebay after getting taken on one of these.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif

[John Rosett]

i've sold a couple of things internationally in the past year, and we did a wire transfer from their bank to mine. fast, easy, reliable. the whole cashier's check thing is the way scam artists operate. somehow, they cashier's checks look good to the bank for a week or ten days, then, all of a sudden, they're invalid. i don't know how that works, but the scammers sure do.
i think that both parties in a transaction that's over the internet and international should go out of their way to make the other party feel at ease. both of the parties that i sold instruments to overseas asked me what form of payment i wanted, and neither had any problem with the wire transfer. if the people that you're dealing with have a big problem with your preferred method of payment, you should be very wary of them, in my opinion.
john

[mrbook]

Not knowing about that violin site until your post, I listed a fiddle on it last night. This morning I received a message in broken English from an "interested buyer," asking questions that were answered in my ad text, and quoting a price higher that the one I am asking. I answered, but I have no doubt it is a scam of some kind.

I perused many of the ads, and most seem to have been written by people who have never sold anything before. I would be wary of buying anything there, but the ads are free, and there are reputable businesses advertising on the site. It is quite different from this site, where I would feel comfortable dealing with anyone.

[mrbook]

After a day, all the replies I've received offer payment by certified check, including one offering ten times the payment, with me refunding the difference by Western Union. I'm sure it's not site maker's intention, but it appears to be a home for scam artists. As I said, quite a difference from the cafe!

[Rick Crenshaw]

Why don't you tell them to send the ten times payment check and just cash it and keep it? In fact, why don't you tell them you will do the deal, but will have to charge $100 for the service of cashing a third party check. If it is legit, they will begin to howl loudly. But I wouldn't expect that to happen. I'd love to see people begin to scam the scammers. Imagine the effort they would have to put out to get a hit from a real sucker. Why, that'd almost be like WORK for them!!! <g> Seriously, I wish there was a way to scam the cheaters, and I would cash the check and keep it all for several months to clear. No legitimate person would offer such a thing. Con men love to sucker the old and the greedy. As W.C.Fields once said, "You can't cheat an honest man."

[mmukav]

So outside of paypal, what's the safest, smartest way to obtain payment on a sale?

[Jim Garber]

One of your co-sellers on useviolins.com posted this as part of her listing:

As a result of fake cashier checks I will only except cash through western union as payment.

Jim

[Charles Johnson]

The cashiers check is a scam. No if, ands, or buts. Think about it - how often do you offer to pay more than the asking price for used goods? Like maybe never? What makes you think someone else would? Use your common sense. If the deal doesn't make sense to you its probably a scam.

Theres only a few ways to not get ripped on an overseas deal. Western Union to you works but is expensive if you pay the fees, ok if they do. Cash in an envelope works well but your buyer will probably balk. Bank-to-bank wire transfers are fine. These are governed by all sorts of international agreements. If fraud occurs, its bank-to-bank fraud and thats a Very Big Deal. Doesn't happen often.

Note on Paypal - if its an instant payment on a stolen credit card, once the fraud is uncovered (which might take weeks) you will be backcharged by Paypal without notice. They will just take the funds from your account, either the Paypal account or your linked checking account. Thats why a lot of sellers no longer accept Paypal instant payments.

Theres a thread on this somewhere in the archives discussing these exact concerns.

Charles Johnson
Owner
Mandolin World Headquarters, Inc.
www.vintagemandolin.com

[mrbook]

As soon as I modified my ad to state that I will only ship in the U.S. and that I will not accept cashier's checks, the scam artists stopped. I haven't received another inquiry on the ad since.

[mad dawg]

Note on Paypal - if its an instant payment on a stolen credit card, once the fraud is uncovered (which might take weeks) you will be backcharged by Paypal without notice. They will just take the funds from your account, either the Paypal account or your linked checking account. Thats why a lot of sellers no longer accept Paypal instant payments.
Thanks for the tip Charles; I was not aware of that. (I guess that means I didn't read my PayPal user agreement very carefully.)

Can you specify -- and control at your PayPal account level --- what type of PayPal payments you accept? (I guess this also means that I didn't read my PayPal user agreement very carefully.)

[mrbook]

After modifying my ad on usedviolins.com to say that I do not accept cashier's checks, I am now getting many foreign offers to pay by money order - which only leads me to suspect that there are lots of fake money orders out there, too. I've been in retail for 30 years, but never encountered such problems of dishonesty until the internet came along - for all its good points, it has created a real monster.

[Rick Crenshaw]

For deals done in the US, IMHO, the best way is a US Postal Money Order. #
1. You can cash the MO right then and there - before or as you ship the instrument. #Once the money is in hand, they can't 'charge you back'. #You just show ID and cash the check.
2. If I'm the seller and I'm scamming YOU, I've just used the USPS and have gone from a misdemeanor to a federal offense. #And recall that they have an address on you (be sure to always deal with a street address, NOT a Post Office Box unless you can confirm a street address tied to the PO Box.) The US Postal Inspection Service is often much more interested in catching thieves and scammers than are local authorities. #So rarely will dishonest folks prefer to deal in US Postal MO.

3. #Use the phone!!! If you are selling or buying an instrument worth several hundred to several thousand, call and talk to the buyer/seller. #Get a home number, an office number, etc. #Most folks that you talk to are honest. #Only con men try to hide their location and identity. #If you get a sense that someone is trying too hard to protect their 'privacy', RUN. #If they are honest, but just paranoid, well, that's the price they'll pay for not being more open. #They'll limit their market to the local mom and pop shops, who BTW, have been known to screw consignees out of their instruments/ money as any other con artist has.

Rick

[David M.]

MrBook, you'll continue to get those. #I'm now getting notices that my paypal account is being closed, etc. #I don't even have a Paypal account #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

So far, I haven't seen any emails come through that are legit. #Just got 4 today. #All with poor English and asking about the "item" or "advert", not about my fiddle or violin. #So, I continue to delete. #I don't really want to pay $5.00 to have the ad removed.

And I'm sure the fiddle won't be sold on this site.

[Lee]

You might also open up a new Yahoo mailbox dedicated to online sales so you don't have all the junk emails coming to your personal account.
I like postal money orders too since the person who cashes them in must show ID. I recently paid using PayPal and the money took six days to clear. I can mail a postal MO cross-country in less time than that.

[Stephen Perry]

I like the fake cashiers checks. I must have been blackballed. I don't get the solicitations very often. I was hoping for a $100,000 fake. I have an $11,000 fake, which is pretty good. More fun than collecting stamps.

I don't know that the Internet made things any worse percent wise. Now we reach orders of magnitude more people, so the number of scammers is naturally higher.

[jim simpson]

I'm glad to hear others here like to use postal money orders. I have only used them for Ebay purchases to date and felt like I did have some protection plus it should make the seller feel better about what they are receiving.

[glauber]

Seriously, I wish there was a way to scam the cheaters,
You're in for a treat: 419 Eater Site (http://www.419eater.com/)