Re buliding a Gibson

[Nick Triesch]

Please dont bash me for this but I think it's a cool idea. I have an old 23 gibson A type in great shape with a sound that you can only hear hear in a loar era mandolin. Terific sound. But with the tiny neck it's just hard for me to play compared to my new type F style. What if I were to hire a great craftsman to remove the neck and install a longer A5 or F5 type neck on it. Then you would have the fantastic sound of a loar mando with the playabilty of a new mandolin. I know it will ruin the collectors value of the mandolin but even big joe says that he thinks they will never be that valuable anyway. I could have a 1923 A5 type mandolin! Even if it costs $3000.00 it may be worth it. Please tell me what you think. Thanks, Nick

[mandomiss]

I really don't see any problem with it. If you're never going to sell it, I don't see why you shouldn't; you'll be getting the playability and sound, just like you said, plus I think it would be pretty cool.

[steadypluckinaway]

the longer neck might throw the bridge way closer to the soundhole causing some wear issues. That is just an uneducated guess, but seems to make sense.

[Jim Garber]

Pardon my "devil's advocate" position, but I would not touch that one. Why not sell what you have and have a good builder build you what you want?

Also: if you want to replace the neck and the top (so you could have an A5 with f-holes?) you might as well sell this mandolin to someone who appreciates it.

Also, bear in mind that the bracing for the std A model gibson neck was meant for that neck. The Loar F5 neck is the same length as any Gibson scale but positioned further back on the body so the bridge is positioned more forward.

Also, perhaps you could elaborate some: youactually consider a loar era mandolin to have a tiny neck? #They certainly narrowed the neck but it is is the same scale as any Gibson, I believe.

Perhaps you would prefer an earlier Gibson where the neck is wider.

In any case, I think it is a bad idea. There are better ways to sepnd your money. For instance, for less than $3000 you could have a Collings A and not ruin a perfectly good Loar era Gibson.

Just my 2 cents...

Jim

[Nick Triesch]

Yes I could have a collings mandolin but it wil never sound like a 23 A type....at least not for 80 years! The reason I put up this post is to get ideas from you folks. So what you are saying is that the A-0 body is differant than the A4 or 5 body? So the change would not work? Also yes I think the neck on my Mandolin feels tiny. Much shorter than my fern. It just sounds great. Really great. I have done many taste tests over the years with the other mandolins I have owned and then when I get to my Gibson A they all say the same thing. "Oh God!!! , That one really sounds sweet,loud and pretty!" So I was just thinking how great it would be to put a modern neck on it. Thats all. And I do appreciate my mandolin. My hands are just too darn big to play it. Nick

[atetone]

Ok Nick, put the chainsaw down and back away from that mando,,, real slow-like. #
Seriously though, this seems a bit drastic. I think that you will just ruin a good vintage mando. Seems to me that the long neck will just throw everything out of whack. Can't see it coming to any good.
Of course if it was an old Weber or something, sure! In a heartbeat!!! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Brookside]

If it were me I would cut off my hands and replace them with smaller ones.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. I just wanted to know what you would do with the neck you removed. Can I have it?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[Nick Triesch]

Hey!!!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[sunburst]

Banjo people frequently convert four string banjos to five string banjos by installing a new neck. As long as the original neck is kept with the banjo the collector value doesn't suffer. Of course, these are bolt on necks so there isn't any structural change and you can change back any time.

It would be a lot more work and a lot more money, but why couldn't you change necks back and forth on a mandolin?

The bridge would move on the top though, and likely change the sound. If it's the sound you like, do you want to take the chance of spending a lot of money and ending up with the mandolin sounding worse?

I'm not advocating either way, if it was mine, I wouldn't change necks, but If you decide to, I think the original neck should stay with the mandolin so in 130 years or whenever someone wants it back like it was it can at least be done.

[Mando Medic]

Not to many years ago I had a client that had a electric guitar that he loved, but the fingerboard was too narrow for him. He had BIG hands and he came to me and wanted me to build him a new neck. the guitar was a set neck dot ES 335 1960 vintage. I talked to him about collectablity etc and suggested that instead of a new neck I make a new fingerboard for the neck and widen it with a overhang flair from the nut to the end of the fingerboard. He liked the idea! I did just that and took the old fingerboard off as carefully as I could and kept it for him. Made a new flaired fingerboard that allowed me to widen the nut by 3/8 and he was a happy camper. Cost him $450 and the process is reversable so not much harm done.

So it begs the question; is it the width or the thickness and the width that is the issue for you? I would not change the neck unless it was broken. It will change everything if you do and it might change the sound too.

[Crowder]

Nick, it seems pretty obvious that what you're suggesting would fundamentally change the sound of the instrument. The scale length and mass of the neck would be changed. I can't see how you can get where you want to go.

Why not contact someone like Bussman, who is well known for making oval holes and for getting a vintage-style tone? I bet if you told him what you're after you'd get something remarkably close.

[Jim Garber]

I think the key to the sound you like is the oval hole. I like the suggestion about Bussman.

Jim

[Nick Triesch]

I guess you guys are right. It was just a fun thought....an easy to play 23 A-0. I do play it . It's great for celtic tunes but it's hard for me to chord. I've played a number of vintage guitars and mandolins and in general I think they are not as easy to play as new quality instruments. IMHO. But the truth is my wife gave it to me and she said NO WAY! End of story. Thanks, Nick

[Nick Triesch]

I don't know about you guys but I really like the F4 type mandolins from H. Brentrup. Man they are pretty. I bet they sound as good as they look. Maybe thats the sound I'm looking for. I saw one in black somewhere on the cafe. It was the most Stunning mandolin I have ever seen. Nick

[Jim Garber]

For your next birthday ask your wife for a Brentrup or a Bussman oval hole.

Jim

[Nick Triesch]

Nope. She already a saint. She has been to many Guitar stores over the years. Nick:)

[Bluemando]

I just wanted to add somthing here. If you change the neck wouldnt it change the tone somewhat. I am just getting started in the building aspect, but have spent more time researching than building. From what I understand, any change to the instrument at all would change the tone of it. If the goal is to keep that sound, I would suggest leaving it like it is. Otherwise you are taking a chance of loosing that sound all together.

[Jim Garber]

I guess you guys are right. #It was just a fun thought....an easy to play 23 A-0.
Hey Nick:
Somehow things are a little confusing. According to my sources, the earliest A-0 was made in 1927. A 1923 would prob be an A or an A-Jr. If it is a 1923 it is likely a snakehead. Which do you have?

I have a 1923 A-Jr. and it is a good sounding one. I have played a few others that are equally good when set up well.

Jim

[Nick Triesch]

You are correct! #Style A no 0. #It is a 1923 snakehead. #Nick:D

[atetone]

Nick, you are killing me here. I want one of those real bad.
Please, if you ever do change the neck do not tell me. I wouldn't be able to take it.
I have 1915 Gibson A which I love, and a very sick 1916 A which I am attempting to doctor back to health by myself, but eventually I want to get one of those snakeheads. I haven't played one but I really want to try one out. Supposedly as far as sound goes they are the best of the old Gibsons.
It's just a matter of time till I make the move. Got to sell some stuff first though. Just part of the trials and tribulations of MAS.
Leave that neck alone!!!! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Nick Triesch]

I will leave the neck alone. It has a sound that you just can't buy today. And it has the pick guard and the nasty smelly case that came with it. I just don't get how much sound comes out of it? Very strange. Nick

[Big Joe]

The neck could be replaced without much difficulty and the top should be fine. The problem I see is the change in the tone created by the difference in tension by increasing the length of the neck. That would lose the wonderful tone you currently enjoy. I would agree with the others on this. While the job can be done for about two grand, the instrument would not likely suite you once done. You could keep this one as is for the great sound, and buy an A9 for less than the cost of a neck. Just a thought.

[Nick Triesch]

Thank you Big Joe. Those era mandolins really do have a special tone. It's strange but every one I have ever played had that sound. IMHO they have a sound kind of like a Loar F5. I will let it be. Nick