HOW TO "get" a back up group...

[Pattroglyph]

TO get a back up group BE a good back up!!!! FIRST! I hope the guy who was looking for back up CD's find a ton of material for the long winter. #BUT his question spawned this question. How do you attract other players?

Here's my take..Don't mean to be blunt ( but I am here..) Until I became the best back up artist possible (at my level which is early intermediate hahaha) I did not attract musicians. After purchasing and mimicing guitar picking videos and back up CD's, others were not impressed. Now that my picking is focused on highlighting the other person's playing the situation has improved.
#There is actually much more to backup playing then lead. 99.8% more! You don't see a whole lot of tab written of back up yet listening to what the pros do behind their band mates you realize they are not just chopping incessantly. (Unless you are Sam Bush behind J D Crowe. YES SIR, No SIR, may I chop SIR!) #A primary goal in lead playing could be ... "DO NOT EMBARRASS or DEMEAN my fellow players and they will come back to play with you again." #
Hope I did not ruffle any feathers but IMHO we only deserve the back up players that we attract. #I actually started to play guitar in order to go to guitar seminars in hopes of being invited to private jams to find people who would invite me to come into their groups. #Then if I deserved a lead it was only on the proficiency and humility of my mando playing.
# Blending is everything and sticking out is "bad". Master Monroe seems to abide by this principal during his performances.
If you tell a person that you like their playing, it's a start. Wadda ya think?

[Dennis Schubert]

The best way to get "included" is to run with other people at a similar level of proficiency, and with similar goals. Even then, there is only room for so many guitars, and so many mandolins, and so many baritone singers around the circle. In my local experience, it's hardest to find high male tenor voices and solid tempo-savvy bassists for a pickin' session -- so they are the most desirable. Other skill sets are easier to fill, and not everybody will get the call. Maybe you should try to organize a small jam session of your own, just with a guitar and bass and somebody to sing, and build from there? Sometimes there will be no chemistry at all, but it might also be the start of something good.

[aimee]

Good topic for a thread, Pat.

It certainly stands to reason that the more experience you have and the better "ear" you develop, it would make you more valuable, yes.

[pelone]

Thanks for the advice on how to be socially integrated. However, I am presently living in a semi-remote area with my dogs and training them for racing. It is not easy for my neighbors, who do not play bluegrass, to trek over for a jam. Anymore comments to help me discover playmates are appreciated--how about single women who flat pick and are willing to commute north out there?

[Dennis Schubert]

Depends on your priorities. As a mid-life decision, I moved to a larger town with more fellow musicians and have never regretted it.

[Michael H Geimer]

Pattroglyph,
You've pointed out something that has always been obvious to me, but that I feel so many people overlook or ignore.

*Poor backup playing can easily make a good soloist sound bad.*

If you can keep good time, then 'chuck' it out, even if you're just muting strings and playing a 'dry chop'. You will support the lead player much better than any 'noodle' can do.

Recently, I've starting getting invited to a local invite-only jam of players who's skill level is well above my head. Why? Because I casually mentioned to the leader that I don't take a lot of solos, that I just 'use my ear and keep good time'. "We're always looking for players who can keep good time.", was the reply. So, now I get to jam with some great players in a small-jam setting! Granted, I'm just there as back-up guitar playing nothing but G, C and D all night ... but they asked me back!

OTOH - I've also been in jams where I was the only one truly keeping time, where ever other player was either noodling or soloing, or playing tremelo/texture. When I've asked why there isn't more stright rhythmic accompaniment, the response is usually something like, "That's too boring. I want to play something that's insteresting."

Sooooooo ... if a straight 'Boom Chuck' is too boring, how come these people keep asking me back? And why will I go back to one jam, but not the other?

- Benig

[GBG]

So they don't have to play boring backup! Seriously, a good rhythm player is always in demand, especially by good lead pickers.

[Michael H Geimer]

" So they don't have to play boring backup! "

Of course not, there is actually a lot of subtle stuff that constitues good back-up playing. But if someone is pondering how 'interesting' they are while playing back-up ... they are probably not truly listening to the lead voice (vocal or instrumental), and are likely just playing in the background rather than truly playing back-up.

Personally, I can tell if someone has spent more of their time playing along to CDs rather than with other players. It shows in how they intereact with a group, whether they 'join in' or 'play along'. See, CDs don't get thrown off by poor accompaniment, whereas a live groove can really suffer if someone is too 'off'.

- Benig

[Pattroglyph]

What about eye contact? #ANY thoughts? #

Amiee, I have had a great deal of success going to camps and 1 or 2 day seminars. However it sounds like you can't leave the dogs too long so festivals are also a good possibility. #But Beginner Beware.... #It is sooo hard to sense where you fit... You should consider backup CD's. they are great fun.
Joan and Pete Warnick has a great 3 day day camp that they hold. They define "Jam Busters" and make sure that all the playing done is inclusive!! There was a player who only knew 3 chords.. honest.. they gave him a capo... nicely but firmly made him play quietly! (honest)in the background showing him how to BLEND! #My eyes were opened!
Ironweed, I just NOW got back from a two person session where I was told to go ahead and not hold back!!! Play into the improvasations and fun wild chording, harmonies and back beats. I have been waiting for that "permission" for 2+years. And YES they invited me back! You are right.
EYE CONTACT what about it?

[pelone]

Some of us may be too shy and awkward to join in, we may recognize when barriers exist. However, I just needed a CD advisement to while away the nights, playing by myself, checking out the northern lights.

[Michael H Geimer]

pelone,
Don't let me be *that* rigid, or let my opinions discourage you from using whatever tools you can to move forward musically. CDs can certainly help, especially if other outlets don't exist.

I have only seen the Northern Lights from the window of a jet plane. I'd love to sit somewhere where I could pick mandolin and watch 'em up above. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

- Benig

[peterleyenaar]

You can watch them from my back yard, I don't know how well you'd pick in -25C weather #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[Pattroglyph]

pelone... I once attended a celtic fiddler seminar that turned out to be mostly for children. Here i was a 45 year old sitting there as a beginner and 12 year olds blasting me away with their ablilities. #The teacher was thrilled to have me there and she told me the greatest story. #When she began playing at age 30+ all she could accomplish at the sessions was an occasional squeak of the right note at the right time. #She had practiced for 2 years by herself. #It thrilled her that she was finally "playing" with others ... ALL the alone time was still the necessary part! CD's are great.
Hang in there. Some of us want to see the lights and hear the quiet. Do it for us and play for us. #And when you actually get to play with others if all you do is that little squeak behind the session.. the right note at the right time! #SMILE, we are with you!
#PS getting your physical body used to hearing and feeling the difference of playing with the unpredictable "live" musicians takes time. #NEVER feel anxious or ackward if you get with live players. Just allow it to be overwhelming for you at first cuz it is! If you can just smile and feel the music everything will be fine. #Much of music is Caught not taught. The feel and drive of the music has to be learned. #THAT is why I watch/listen as much as I play when I get with people.
# REMEMBER SMILE, we are with you! Play for the lights tonight for us!

[Dennis Schubert]

Pattroglyph, I think that most jam sessions are too big and inclusive. If the circle is overcrowded, and you have too many guys playing at once, it becomes a clangor and a buzz, and all you hear distinctly is the guy playing the worst rhythm (to paraphrase Dan Crary). If I find myself in that situation, I often put my axe back in the case. This provides time to listen, schmooze, grab refreshments, etc. More will be accomplished musically if there is just one of everything, and the rest of the gang socializes, as players rotate in and out. Mind you, this is just my own hillbilly opinion.

[Pattroglyph]

Ironweed, I agee. That's really the polite answer. #When a certain magic occurs in a small group, watching it happen is even better than playing behind it. #I've seen solid players who can play through anything. #Boy to go there and get that skill in one's belt is heaven.
#In a celtic session where everyone ( yea all the bodies!) plays the same thing, the little squeek in the back is most times tolerated. #My bluegrass session are pretty much what you described and they have been great fun with the right mix. #Then there are other guys who insist on chopping ON the beat behind the good players so they can "practice". #Yep You're Right.

[250sc]

Someone on this board posted this sage advise about jams.

Listen louder, play softer.

Steve Kaufman has a bluegrass workout series that is music minus one that is fun to play with.

Good luck with the CDs.

[WillPick4Beer]

here's a joke for yall
how many guitar players does it take to screw in a light bulb?
one, he just holds it up and the world revolves around him.

my advice is to toss off the lables of lead and back-up.have everyone play the rythm. including you! breaks should be spontaneous and shared to keep the music and musicians fresh.
when im in my hometown i play with an excellent guitar picker, he could solo for 20 minutes and keep people enthralled, but i dont let him and he knows why. he knows why he has to play rythm except for the occasional break, and sometimes i let him go twice thru. alot of times we'll play some hank williams or old blues and ill give the show over to him. he's a better singer and player than me, but he understands that before i started playin with him, all he was doin was deliverin the mail(yes a mailman). now when we get together we play some great music, and people enjoy it.