New paypal scam?

[reeljack]

I just got your typical email of a person who can't be called, is in the military out to sea, blah blah blah. But instead of the normal cashiers check deal, they offered to pay with paypal, and then have a mover come and get the mandolin. Is there a new paypal scam...or a scam that's been out a while that I've never heard of? I shouldn't worry about money because the Nigerian government is giving me $2.5M Euro;)

Any info would be great.
Adam Murray

[Adam Sweet]

I haven't seen that one yet. LOL

[reeljack]

I'm just curious as to what the scam is...unless they have hacked into someones paypal and can access their accounts.

[G7MOF]

Even after you've recieved the money into your account, It can still be reversed. You are told this whenever you take a payment via Paypal.

[reeljack]

ah ic...

[mandowilli]

Yes, it is a scam. You may receive a subsequent bogus message or link from paypal asking you to log in and do the deal but it will really be from your new found friend and then he will have your sign in.

Tell him that amazingly you are in the moving business in your town and that you know everyone! Who is he using?

[reeljack]

The mando's been sold already...I just deleted the message.

[journeybear]

I get stuff like this now and then. Usually they are more along the lines of notifying me my account needs my attention in order to stay active or needing to verify my information. I never respond because, well, they look fishy, I mean, phishy. And the timing for the latest message couldn't be worse, as I am about to make my largest PayPal transaction ever, on the order of a month's rent.

Dear Customer Your Paypal account Has been limited !‏

From: Service PayPal (Support@Paysbas-banque.securnet)
Sent: Sat 5/26/12 8:22 PM
To: [me@me.com]

This message is here because your junk email filter is set to exclusive.
Wait, it's safe! | I'm not sure, show content

How to activate your PayPal account
Dear PayPal Costmuer,

To get back into your PayPal account, you'll need to relog in in your account.

It's easy:

Click the link below to open a secure browser window.
Confirm that you're the owner of the account, and then follow the instructions.
Relog in your account now

Before log in your account will be activated let us know right away. Reporting it is important because it helps us prevent fraudsters from stealing your information.

Help Center | Security Center
Please don't reply to this email. It'll just confuse the computer that sent it and you won't get a response.

Copyright © 2012 PayPal, Inc. All rights reserved. PayPal is located at 2211 N. First St., San Jose, CA 95131.

PayPal Email ID PP315

My favorite part of this is "It'll just confuse the computer that sent it" - especially considering the Reply To address. And of the course the iffy grammar of "Before log in your account will be activated let us know right away." Gotta love the use of "fraudster," too - that's real businesslike language. ;)

I know stuff like this is junk and these are scam attempts, but sometimes they look pretty real, and get me worried. Especially when they show up right around the time of a transaction, it's all too easy to assume they are part of the process. This stuff just makes me uneasy.

[reeljack]

Here's mine...

Hi there, Thank you for getting back to me.Can you assure me that is in goodstate and that i will not be disappointed with it?I'm ready to payyour asking price and to be honest, i want to buy this for my brotheras his gift. I am a marine engineer that works on the sea at themoment. phone calls making and visiting of website are restricted buti squeezed out time to check this advert and send you an emailregarding it so my only quickest payment option is PayPal as i cansend money via PayPal anytime.Since I'm requesting this transaction tobe done via PayPal, i will be responsible for all the pay palfee/charges on this transaction and if you don't have an account withpaypal, it is pretty easy, safe and secured to open one. Just log onto . I hope we can make the purchase as fast aspossible? I have a mover that will come for it once payment clears . iwill like to see more pics i look forward to hear back from you soon. Below are the details needed Your PayPal e-Mail Address :Full name:Firm Price: Thank You

[reeljack]

didn't realize the web site was still in there...it was removed incase it was malicious

[didimauw]

i got that scam once, trying to sell a guitar on craigslist. i had said cash only, in person. and she tried teling me that she will send me more than i asked for to send it to her. i kept saying no, that was not a part of the deal, cash only blah blah. she insisted how easy it was to send it western union. it was actually really wierd. she was somehow sent me fake irs emails sayin that i was going to get in trouble because she "already sent me the amount" and what not. i was able to contact paypal about that , and they told me that this was a scam and the irs emails were fake as well. she was also able to steal money from my bank account through my paypal. which i was also able to get refunded. its a scary world out there. be careful!

[John Flynn]

I guess I don't understand this stuff as well as I should and I would appreciate someone spelling it out for me in simple terms. Is what this thread is saying that PayPal is not a secure way to buy or sell instruments? Or are there specific precautions that should be taken or specific things to be avoided to ensure it's security? I really need to know. I plan to do some instrument selling soon.

[Mike Bunting]

I guess I don't understand this stuff as well as I should and I would appreciate someone spelling it out for me in simple terms. Is what this thread is saying that PayPal is not a secure way to buy or sell instruments? Or are there specific precautions that should be taken or specific things to be avoided to ensure it's security? I really need to know. I plan to do some instrument selling soon.
It sounds like someone trying to get another person to give them access to their account. Would you give someone your PIN number? That's what this sounds like to me.

[Ed Goist]

Hi John; I don't know for sure how the scam in question works, but here's one way it might:

* Fraudulent buyer says they are ready to buy with PayPal, so they need your PayPal account e-mail address.
* You provide them that so you can receive the payment.
* The scammer now sends a fraudulent message to your PayPal e-mail address impersonating PayPal, and saying something like "You will need to log into your account using the account and password boxes in this e-mail to receive the funds from the buyer".
* Wanting the money, you do this.
* BAM - The fraudulent buyer now has you account log-in info and empties your account.

How to avoid:
- Sign-in to your PayPal account ONLY from a secure connection to the official PayPal website. PayPal will never ask for your account log-in info in an e-mail. NEVER put your log-in information in an e-mail.

[reeljack]

Hi John; I don't know for sure how the scam in question works, but here's one way it might:

* Fraudulent buyer says they are ready to buy with PayPal, so they need your PayPal account e-mail address.
* You provide them that so you can receive the payment.
* The scammer now sends a fraudulent message to your PayPal e-mail address impersonating PayPal, and saying something like "You will need to log into your account using the account and password boxes in this e-mail to receive the funds from the buyer".
* Wanting the money, you do this.
* BAM - The fraudulent buyer now has you account log-in info and empties your account.

How to avoid:
- Sign-in to your PayPal account ONLY from a secure connection to the official PayPal website. PayPal will never ask for your account log-in info in an e-mail. NEVER put your log-in information in an e-mail.

Well said...I get those "Paypal.com" emails as well...they get marked as phishing scams.

[Mike Bunting]

I just got your typical email of a person who can't be called, is in the military out to sea, blah blah blah. But instead of the normal cashiers check deal, they offered to pay with paypal, and then have a mover come and get the mandolin. Is there a new paypal scam...or a scam that's been out a while that I've never heard of? I shouldn't worry about money because the Nigerian government is giving me $2.5M Euro;)

Any info would be great.
Adam Murray

On reading this again and ignoring all the off topic posts, mine included, I have to say, where's the possible scam? You don't release the instrument until you receive the money in your paypal account, so what's the problem? How they pick up the instrument is their problem.

[Mark Hudson]

They don't want your instrument, they want access to your account.
When you log onto PayPal using the links they provide, you're actually logging onto a fake PayPal website, they take your user id and password and empty your account.

The three biggest tips for PayPal are -
3- ALWAYS log in directly to PayPal.com, never use links sent in an e-mail
2- If you get an e-mail addressed "Dear PayPal user" or "Dear PayPal customer" or some other variant, it's a scam. PayPal uses your user id - ie "Dear John Doe".
If you are in doubt as to whether an e-mail from PayPal is real, you can forward the e-mail to them for confirmation.
1- Not so much PayPal as dealing over the internet in general, if it's too good to be true, it probably is. You might want to pause and ask yourself what the catch is.


On reading this again and ignoring all the off topic posts, mine included, I have to say, where's the possible scam? You don't release the instrument until you receive the money in your paypal account, so what's the problem? How they pick up the instrument is their problem.

[Brian Sharpe]

On reading this again and ignoring all the off topic posts, mine included, I have to say, where's the possible scam? You don't release the instrument until you receive the money in your paypal account, so what's the problem? How they pick up the instrument is their problem.

Or they have hacked someone else's PayPal account and you ship the item to an unconfirmed address which gives you zero seller protection.

Rule #1 when I sell anything via PayPal is that the shipment is made only to confirmed addresses and the shipment is trackable that way I'm guaranteed payment.

[Stephen Perry]

PayPal payments can be reversed and you're out whatever you sent, even if your account remains secure.

I far prefer to get fake cashier's checks. Best so far is $11,000. I'm trying to get someone to send me a $100,000 fake cashier's check. I have a pretty good collection of these.

But the PayPal scams give one nothing to frame, no trophy.

[Mike Bunting]

They don't want your instrument, they want access to your account.
When you log onto PayPal using the links they provide, you're actually logging onto a fake PayPal website, they take your user id and password and empty your account.
How do you read that into the original post? According to the post, the OP will have the money before anyone tries to pick up the mandolin. In the original post all the would be buyer says is that he will pay via Paypal. Nothing more. He provided no links to mislead the seller. All the other stuff posted in the thread while true, is not relevant to the original post.

[rico mando]

You should have your pay pal account linked with a bank account you seldom use and little cash in it and also credit card with a small limit .

[didimauw]

all i know is that people use western union as a way to scam money out of people. which sucks because it is or was such a reliable way to send and recieve money. wire transfers can be trickey too. thats why i do everything in person and cash only. especially now a days. but im pretty much done with craigslist and paypal. ill still use paypal for buying things online like from musicians friend or stewmac, and i used my paypal account to make payments on my yairi acoustic. but no person to person anymore.

[journeybear]

You should have your pay pal account linked with a bank account you seldom use and little cash in it and also credit card with a small limit .

Exactly what I do. I set up a separate bank account a few years ago for a different reason, but have since used that rather than my main account for all internet transactions. And I generally leave just a little in it. When I make a large purchase, I make a deposit into the account, and PayPal withdraws from it. Typically never more than a day delay, if that, and sellers are usually understanding.

[Bill Snyder]

On reading this again and ignoring all the off topic posts, mine included, I have to say, where's the possible scam? You don't release the instrument until you receive the money in your paypal account, so what's the problem? How they pick up the instrument is their problem.
In a subsequent post he included the actual text of the email. In it was included a link to set up a Paypal account. If he had used this link and followed all of the directions he would have given his banking information to the scammer.

[Mike Bunting]

By the time I saw it, there was no link.

[John McCoy]

There are a variety PayPal-related scams out there. And by Thursday there'll probably be a few more.

PP has gotten wise to phishing schemes and have put in place some measures to protect payers' accounts, but I'm not sure the protections are iron-clad. As I understand it, today someone who has your PP log-in information still doesn't have and can't get enough data to, say, change your bank account to theirs, which would be the holy grail. But, as has been said, "Build a better mouse trap and pretty soon somebody will build a better mouse."

The real tip-off in the OP's message is that the putative buyer wants to control the pick-up of the item. I'm about 99.9999% certain that even if the "buyer" provides a name and address, that's one place in the entire world where you will never, ever, ever find this guy. My best guess is that "buyer" will send a "Notice of Payment Received" email (that's one of several subject lines PP uses) that looks legit, pretty well timed to arrive just about the time the "mover" rings the door bell, so the seller won't have time to go into his PP account and verify the payment before someone's standing at the front door demanding the item.

This is closely related to another scam (somewhat exaggerated here for the sake of jocularity):


Honest seller and underhanded buyer enter into what appears to be a legit deal

Buyer really does transfer money to seller's PP account

Seller ships $560,000 Schmergel Devastator via UPS with signature required

Buyer receives and signs for package, unopened (quite normal, ya' know? We all do it)

Buyer quickly opens package, removes mando, fills case with wadded up newspaper.

Buyer contacts PP and screams "Fraud! Fraud! This guy sold me three cents worth of newspaper for over half a mil."

PP investigates:

Seller produces delivery signature.

PP forwards evidence to buyer

Buyer says, "Of course he got a signature. It's mine. I don't deny getting the package he sent; it just didn't contain what I bought. And," (the clincher): "all seller has is proof that he sent me something, no proof at all of what it was"



If PP believes buyer displays greater verisimilitude than seller, PP nicks seller for the money.


One way to protect yourself against this (and no way is absolutely 100.001% fool-proof) is


Take the item unpackaged to some place like a UPS store (USPS won't do this, not sure about FedEx)
Speak with the owner
Get a signed manifest from him/her with a detailed list of contents, including serial numbers.
Don't let the item out of your sight until it's packed, sealed, and address-labeled and you have paid the correct full amount for shipping, insurance, delivery receipt, etc. (this transfers custody to the store)
Be sure that both you and the owner have the signed, counter-signed, dated and even time-stamped document confirming contents.
(The owner will figure out why you're doing this, so no need to threaten anybody)

[Loudloar]

I have different concern with fraud through PayPal/eBay. Nothing to do with these phishing scams. 3 or 4 years ago I had my PayPal account tied directly to my bank account. One day I realized about $1,600 was missing. Someone on eBay had fraudulently "sold" me two items and had been able to suck the money right out of my bank account. (I had not bid on anything.) eBay had already realized it and had cancelled the sale. They claimed that they have never been hacked and it was my fault that my password had somehow been "revealed"??? They were willing to return the money but I had to jump through a lot of hoops to prove I was really me and get my account re-instated. Eventually I got the money back, but will never again have a direct link to my bank account through eBay or PayPal. At least with a credit card I have a level of protection through the credit card company.

[billkilpatrick]

all good advice ... typing errors aside, i don't see anything questionable in the original request. i wouldn't have used his proposed paypal link in any case - if that's where the sting is.

all my transactions via paypal have been above board and happily conducted. there was a brief period (very brief) when the balance in my account went over the maximum limit allowed and they asked me for declarations related to (what i assume to be) financial, money laundering-type legislation. i ignored these and eventually - as my account dwindled back to its 'umble, ever so 'umble level - they stopped asking.

[Folkmusician.com]

In addition to getting your PayPal info, or having you ship the item and then disputing the charge (or they used someone else's PayPal account), they may pay you, then demand a refund via some method other than PayPal. Once they have their refund, they dispute the PayPal payment.

The deadline to dispute a charge on a credit card varies by bank and the nature of the dispute. Most will be 120 days, but 6 months is not uncommon. In certain circumstances it may be longer. The maximum should be 540 days (yes 540!) for the first chargeback. After 540 days you are 100% safe, for the most part. :) The longest I have personally dealt with was 6 months after the purchase for a fraudulent charge (I lost the dispute). A charge can also be disputed multiple times (within 45 days of). How does this apply to PayPal? As a seller, you can win a PayPal dispute, then have the buyer dispute the charge with their bank and take the money from PayPal. PayPal may then takes the money from you. This can happen months after the sale.

Merchants, or anyone doing a large volume of sales will deal with this very scenario as part of the cost of doing business. I do some quick research on any order that is questionable. If it doesn't appear to be safe and I can't speak with the person, or find some reasonable proof of who they are, the order doesn't get processed. If you don't trust the buyer, don't assume you are protected.

[Timmando]

I don't want to change the topic here and steal the post, but it is a good place to mention another scam that was directed at me. I got a phone call on my cell phone from an Unknown number. It was a recorded voice message that said my debit card will be inactivated unless I verify some information...please press 1. I pressed 1 to see where this was going and I got a message to type in my debit card number, which I then typed in a bogus number, I was then asked my PIN and the 3 digit number on the back, which I then entered bogus info. The phone then went dead, I guess they thought they were done with me. I was on the road, using my debit card for gas purchases. I tried my card at the next fillup and it worked fine, continued to work fine all weekend at the florida folk festival. Another scam...all computerized.

[Bernie Daniel]

Here's mine...

Hi there, Thank you for getting back to me.Can you assure me that is in goodstate and that i will not be disappointed with it?I'm ready to payyour asking price and to be honest, i want to buy this for my brotheras his gift. I am a marine engineer that works on the sea at themoment. phone calls making and visiting of website are restricted buti squeezed out time to check this advert and send you an emailregarding it so my only quickest payment option is PayPal as i cansend money via PayPal anytime.Since I'm requesting this transaction tobe done via PayPal, i will be responsible for all the pay palfee/charges on this transaction and if you don't have an account withpaypal, it is pretty easy, safe and secured to open one. Just log onto . I hope we can make the purchase as fast aspossible? I have a mover that will come for it once payment clears . iwill like to see more pics i look forward to hear back from you soon. Below are the details needed Your PayPal e-Mail Address :Full name:Firm Price: Thank You

What exactly is the issue here? That is how Pay Pal works -- you send the buyer your email address associated with your account. He is asking for information needed to put money IN TO your account. To take money out he would have to have your password and he is NOT asking for that as near as I can tell. Maybe I am missing something due to the bad writing, misspellings and grammar but those are not crimes. I would not agree to send him your address or for him to come and pick up the instrument however I insist on shipping it to his address or someone whom he trusts.

[fredfrank]

I had received an offer to buy with the merchant marine out to sea thing. Basically, what they wanted was for me to pay for the guys who come to pick up the instrument, and then I am assuming they cancel the sale after they have that money. Needless to say, I didn't even entertain the possibilities.

[reeljack]

What exactly is the issue here? That is how Pay Pal works -- you send the buyer your email address associated with your account. He is asking for information needed to put money IN TO your account. To take money out he would have to have your password and he is NOT asking for that as near as I can tell. Maybe I am missing something due to the bad writing, misspellings and grammar but those are not crimes. I would not agree to send him your address or for him to come and pick up the instrument however I insist on shipping it to his address or someone whom he trusts.

That's the point...the whole "I'll send someone to pick it up." I've seen this BS before with them asking if I take cashiers checks, but never paypal.

[Ed Goist]

"That's great that you can have someone come to pick the instrument up!
Please send them your cashier's check, and have them cash it.
Once they have the cash, we can arrange a meeting at 'insert the name of a public, high-traffic location here'. I look forward to hearing from you."

...which, of course, I never do.

[mefgames]

I recently had this happen to me. I asked the guys over at TDPRI. Here's the thread on what they said.

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/bad-dog-cafe/323337-craigslist-scam.html

I just emailed them back and said the item had been sold. When I relisted the item, I made sure to say CASH only, no checks, no Paypal.

Mike

[kmmando]

Juat experienced what I perceive to be an attempted scam by a certain Walter Burrows, wanting to buy my resonator mandolin.
Said the funds were in Paypal, and an email "confirmed" this, but Paypal had no record of this. In order to complete the transaction I was to wire £450 via Western Union to someone in the USA. I don't think so! Burrows seems an entirely appropriate moniker for a fraudster.
Beware
Paypal also told me that once money was in my account it couldn't be retracted - is this true or not, out of interest?
This is the first time I've used Paypal, probably my last!
Be very aware!

[Mike Bunting]

Where did the email that confirmed this originate. I use PayPal a lot for little things and have never had any problems.

[barney 59]

My wife will occasionally use my paypal account to buy a book or whatever. Never a big purchase. It shows up that a transaction has happened for some small amount and I figure that she had bought something and never give it much thought. A couple of weeks ago a email pops up about a $5.00 charge on my paypal account. I would have probably let it slide but I realized that it had JUST happened and there was no one here but me--- what the---!? Turns out that someone had hacked into my account( either paypal or my ebay mastercard and through a site called fiver.com (I'll do this for you for $5.00 or I'll do that for you for $5.00), that I had never heard of, had been systematically placing every few days a $5.00 charge on my account that I was letting slip under my radar. They were up to $25 by the time I caught it. I was able to track it down to someone in Israel. Paypal fixed it and credited my account. I had to change up passwords and such. Somehow someone was able to breach security and use my account. I don't answer inquiries from banks, credit cards etc that come to me in the form of emails. So how they got hold of my pretty complicated passcode from my end is kind of a mystery.

[Scott Tichenor]

Juat experienced what I perceive to be an attempted scam by a certain Walter Burrows, wanting to buy my resonator mandolin.
Said the funds were in Paypal, and an email "confirmed" this, but Paypal had no record of this. In order to complete the transaction I was to wire £450 via Western Union to someone in the USA. I don't think so! Burrows seems an entirely appropriate moniker for a fraudster.
Beware
Paypal also told me that once money was in my account it couldn't be retracted - is this true or not, out of interest?
This is the first time I've used Paypal, probably my last!
Be very aware!

Point of clarification as the site owner...

You have a resonator for sale on the Classifieds but that ad has not received a single reply so you were contacted through some other site, not the Cafe. I'd hesitate to even call that a true "PayPal" scam. That's the most basic old trick looking for someone that thinks it's right to wire money to someone you're selling something to. Has little or nothing to do with PayPal. Old trick use for decades in many mediums, PayPal just happens to be a convenient name to give it at the moment.

I don't concur with your observations with PayPal as a user since probably 1999 with tens of thousands of transactions and never a single issue, but that's not my fight. I can put money in and take it out any time I want. But, easy enough to find people that think otherwise or someone with a bizarre experience who will swear it's dangerous. Just watch. It's the internet.

[Canoedad]

A couple months ago I received an email from paypal (yes it was from paypal) saying that I had paid an individual $130. I knew I didn't. I contacted paypal, went through their fraud protocol, talked to several people. There was no paypal record of the transaction. They could see none and I could see none. I was told not to worry about it. And I didn't. Then when I got my credit card statement, there was the $130 transaction to the same individual. I charged it back with my CC company and contacted paypal again. This time I wasn't so understanding. The only explanation offered was that it was a paypal merchant who did the transaction outside of paypal (somehow with my CC info). Because it was "outside of paypal" they had no record of it. Yet, it was paypal's system that generated the original paypal email telling me that I did the transaction.

Weird.

[mrmando]

I woke up one day to several large deposits (all in the same amount, although I don't remember what it was) to my PayPal account from another PayPal account belonging to a woman whose name I didn't recognize.

Free money! Was this a good thing?

I checked my account details and realized that some of the money deposited had already been moved out, apparently in some form of payment to the U.S. Postal Service. Again, these payments were all in the same amount.

My account had been hacked and was being used for money laundering. Somebody was moving funds through multiple PayPal accounts, including mine, and it was probably going to end up in the form of postal money orders.

I signed into my account and changed the password while dialing PayPal, and eventually got it all sorted out. Sadly, I didn't get to keep any of the hot funds.

[Scott Tichenor]

Point proven.

[barney 59]

Logic tells me that my paypal account was the account hacked and the transaction was then charged to my linked ebay charge card account. I also have been using paypal for a very long time and will continue to do so especially since paypal did "fix" the problem by crediting my account. Hopefully they found the breach at the same time.
This was a very clever idea that someone had - take a little money in hopes that it goes unnoticed -and it worked on me for nearly a month. To make it worth while though would be to have many such accounts and a very sophisticated hack, which is a little scary. If it was only me that had "dropped" (it's possible) my passcode then I'd think they would have gone for more than $5.00 at a clip. I worry more about other things --twice I've been notified by my healthcare provider that my (and a gazillion other peoples) information had gotten loose. They know everything! SS #'s, bank accounts, what's under my skin-- you name it!

[D C Blood]

One thing that is almost always a dead giveaway is to look out for spelling, grammar errors, or awkward sentence construction...(such as might have been done by someone in the Nigerian government)...I don't think that original message OP received could have passed a fourth grade grammar and spelling test...

[Mike Bunting]

One thing that is almost always a dead giveaway is to look out for spelling, grammar errors, or awkward sentence construction...(such as might have been done by someone in the Nigerian government)..

Hell, it could have been written by some on this list!

[barney 59]

Hell, it could have been written by some on this list!

Sadly true, I'm sometimes amazed at how badly some people write.----but also it's a little arrogant to expect foreigners living here or foreigners living someplace else to have a complete grasp of the English language. If I was communicating with someone in Spain or Mexico and was writing in Spanish, a language that I do use a little, I would probably come off as a TOTAL idiot, which is probably at least a little bit more of an idiot than I really am. I do understand that a lot of these scams are coming from some foreign place and masquerading as being somewhere local and that improper English is a clue that maybe something is not legitimate but it's at best only a clue,it's not a "dead give away". Poor English language skills shouldn't exclude someone from buying or selling over the Internet.

[Mike Bunting]

Sadly true, I'm sometimes amazed at how badly some people write.----but also it's a little arrogant to expect foreigners living here or foreigners living someplace else to have a complete grasp of the English language. If I was communicating with someone in Spain or Mexico and was writing in Spanish, a language that I do use a little, I would probably come off as a TOTAL idiot, which is probably at least a little bit more of an idiot than I really am. I do understand that a lot of these scams are coming from some foreign place and masquerading as being somewhere local and that improper English is a clue that maybe something is not legitimate but it's at best only a clue,it's not a "dead give away". Poor English language skills shouldn't exclude someone from buying or selling over the Internet.
I wasn't referring to a writer from a non-English speaking part of the world.

[Tom Cherubini]

Nobody has mentioned the reliability (or not) of U.S. Postal Money Orders. It's my understanding that once written and paid for by the buyer, payment cannot be stopped or cancelled. So they might be a safe way to receive payment. They look like they would be pretty hard to forge.

[barney 59]

I wasn't referring to a writer from a non-English speaking part of the world.

Yes,I know.
My wife's office hands a patient a postcard and asks them to address it to themselves so that the office can send it out to them to remind them of their next appointment. According to her, almost everyone under 30 stares at it like a deer in the headlights. I'm supposed to be living in an area that has particularly good schools. From my experience having put kids through those schools that all they ever got was preparation for more preparation and very little of anything that would be of any use. My friends in Holland and Germany seem to be better educated in the workings of the English language than almost anyone I know here.
If people wish to transact business over the internet then they have to be willing to take some risk, but not any more than you take when you buy out side the internet. You buy over the internet because of the variety and the price. You sell on the internet because of the huge amount of people you can reach at very little cost. You can always go down the road to the store,they sell stuff as well. So if you use the internet use some sense. If it's too good to be true it probably is. You shouldn't have to give away personal bank,Social Security or password info to anyone that already has it. If someone is asking for information that you feel uncomfortable about don't ever give it up. If you go to a store and you don't like the deal or the price or the salesperson you walk out. You can do the same on the internet. Scam artists will always be working the fences of the internet just like they work everything else. So far it seems not from the inside like some of our other venerable and hardly safe institutions. Paypal might not be perfect but it's the best and safest thing going for transacting business over the internet. Even with the flaws that have been pointed out it's much safer than carrying a wallet across a dark parking lot.

[kmmando]

Thanks for your pertinent observations Scott, quite right. The mandolin is up on a UK website and gumtree so I assume its been seen there. This is no reflection at all on the cafe and its security, and sincere apologies if it seemed so. I was and am upset to be hoodwinked so easily, and like any decent person, crime leaves a very nasty taste in the mouth. I'm sure Paypal is reputable, but as you point out, and others too, its the internet!
best wishes
Kevin
ps its still for sale!

[Red_Label]

I've done hundreds of transactions thru PayPal over the past dozen plus years. No issues with scams or fraud. Deals have been for everything from $.99 to $2500... both buying and selling.

[JCook]

I do understand that a lot of these scams are coming from some foreign place and masquerading as being somewhere local and that improper English is a clue that maybe something is not legitimate but it's at best only a clue,it's not a "dead give away". Poor English language skills shouldn't exclude someone from buying or selling over the Internet.

That's certainly true if you are dealing with a private individual. But if an email purports to be an official email from a commercial company like PayPal I think you can expect that they would have the grammar and wording correct in English, or any other language they have to deal with in business. That's one big clue that it's not a real PayPal email.

Jack

[belbein]

Here's mine...

Hi there, Thank you for getting back to me.Can you assure me that is in goodstate and that i will not be disappointed with it?I'm ready to payyour asking price and to be honest, i want to buy this for my brotheras his gift. I am a marine engineer that works on the sea at themoment. phone calls making and visiting of website are restricted buti squeezed out time to check this advert and send you an emailregarding it so my only quickest payment option is PayPal as i cansend money via PayPal anytime.Since I'm requesting this transaction tobe done via PayPal, i will be responsible for all the pay palfee/charges on this transaction and if you don't have an account withpaypal, it is pretty easy, safe and secured to open one. Just log onto . I hope we can make the purchase as fast aspossible? I have a mover that will come for it once payment clears . iwill like to see more pics i look forward to hear back from you soon. Below are the details needed Your PayPal e-Mail Address :Full name:Firm Price: Thank You

As a fraud prosecutor, this just stinks to high heaven. I could go through the signs, but it's pretty obvious. It's always amazing that people fall for this stuff. But then it was amazing to me that people buy into the pyramid schemes I've put out of business, and certain soap companies.

By the way, those of us in the biz do call them "fraudsters." The alternative--"fraudfeasors"--sounds like some sort of toad: Bufo fraudfeasor.

[Tom Cherubini]

Belbein, you call the 'fraudsters'. I call them thieves and low-life knaves without a shred of self-respect or honesty.

[kmmando]

Just thought I'd share (for interest's sake only) Paypals response after they received the fake email that I was sent - they asked me to send it on to them.

Hello Kevin Macleod,
Thanks for forwarding that suspicious-looking email. You're right - it
was a phishing attempt, and we're working on stopping the fraud. By
reporting the problem, you've made a difference!
Identity thieves try to trick you into revealing your password or other
personal information through phishing emails and fake websites. To learn
more about online safety, click "Security Center" on any PayPal webpage.
Every email counts. When you forward suspicious-looking emails to
spoof@paypal.com, you help keep yourself and others safe from identity
theft.
Your account security is very important to us, so we appreciate your
extra effort.
Thanks,
PayPal

[frecky]

Hi!

I am in the compuetr biz. And yes this is a scam. I was recently selling a mando online, and got the same paypal song and dance. Including emails that looked like they were from Paypal, claiming the money was in my account. The guy spoofed the paypal account and logo's to make it look legit, sending emails saying a deposit was made to my account.

But being a geek/mando player I checked my paypal account via paypal's web site and there was no money. He did the same scam, the old "I am in the armed forces dance". I asked for his phone number and when I called there was no answer.

I also sent him an email and a text messge explaining the I am doing contract work for the FBI and I have captured his IP Address of his phone and computer, and know his location. I explained that his information will be entered into a database targeting paypal, ebay and craiglists scams that is maintained by the bureau. I never got a reply back

Make sure you login to the real paypal site before you ship anything, and be sure the money is there. Also watch closely, this guy wanted to pick the mandolin up and me to give him $400 that he placed in my account (supposedly).

I trust our mando cafe folks, but make your craigslist transactions cash only. I also transfer my goods I sell of value in the lobby of my local police department.

He almost had me, and I have been in the business since 1998!

All the best!

[ollaimh]

yeah i ran into this just a few days sgo. they offered to pay my asking price , paypal only. they sent me a paypal invoice. i contacted paypal and it was counterfeit. they wanted me to send them $900 to release $4600. better the next day they asaid legal action might result from me not paying. good luck, then i would have their address to sue them(i was a lawyer before i went straight). so no harm if you refise to send them the release fee to western union.

of course they wanted me to fill out an information form that would sell my daughter into slavery and mortgage the house.

do poeple actually pay money on request? when they are the seller?

[Mike Bunting]

do poeple actually pay money on request? when they are the seller?
Probably, since this scam is often attempted, there must be a good chance that someone bites. Sad commentary on the intelligence of the general population.

[belbein]

Probably, since this scam is often attempted, there must be a good chance that someone bites. Sad commentary on the intelligence of the general population.

Postal Service and Justice call these "Nigerian Scams," since the first generation originated (or so they say) in Nigeria. They never made sense to me when I first started working on them. Why would anyone not only send money to someone based on this kind of ridiculous contact, and then--in many cases--continue sending money after money after money.

Well, I never got it until I started thinking of the economics of it. The scammer (pardon me, the "thieves and knaves without an ounce of self respect") pays absolutely nothing for his marketing. He can send 1,000,000 emails as easily as he can send 100. If he sends 100,000,000,000 e-mails and gets a miniscule return--say, 0.001%--and even then only bilks a pigeon out of $100, that's a pretty darn good rate of return.

Unfortunately, there are people "stupid enough" to fall for this. They're not really stupid though. They're old and infirm; they're desperate; they're ill-informed; they're just us on our worst days. And by the way, I just fell for a phishing scheme, and I'm in the law enforcement business. It only took me 1.5 seconds to twig to it. Unfortunately, it too my fingers 1.3 seconds to automatically type in my password. Oh well. I was overdue to change all my passwords anyway.

[greg_tsam]

I recently sold a mando and used my Bank to transfer funds. Chase Quick Pay is what I ended up using. It was fast, easy and free. The other party signed up for the service and his account was verified and I did the same. He sent my the money using either my eamil address or telephone number and Chase sent me nitification the funds were being delivered and asked me to accept. Once, I did they were mine. Easy Peasy, free and I felt safe using it.

[Tom Cherubini]

I have a classical guitar for sale on Craigslist and I've been getting the usual spam emails offering to send me checks, etc, so i amended the ad. The last sentence now says, "Cash transaction only at the local police station."
I live in a small town so I may be able to get permission to actually make the exchange there. I'm hoping it will discourage thieves.
Of course it diminishes my chances to sell the item but as my signature below says in Italian, "Better an egg today than a chicken tomorrow."

[Vannillamandolin]

Not sure of that one , but do be careful It sounds a bit strange to me - we have many of those kind of e-mails in SA - and we report these to the police, or our bank managers, it is known in SA that these kinds of notes are often part of a scam to get information, ID Pin numbers, etc.

Best Vanillamandolin

[Vannillamandolin]

The language usage and many typos do not bode well, I would avoid.
Also, too many time consuming explanations - if something is legal it is a trusted well-known company, a simple deal.

In another thread I explained how I was researching the purchase of mandolins in SA. A company who would handle all, claimedthat si could only contact them online. They would respond in two working days. Showed me the most exquisite Kentucky mandolin and I really wanted it. Something felt wrong.
When I phoned their number given the next day the number was nonexistent - fortunately did not part with R5,000. In SA, by the by, that is a lot of money, decent chunk of my bonus. I don't know whose scam this is, but perhaps a company name was used, a reputable one like pay pal perhaps to make all seem in good order. Do be careful

Best

VM

[Jim Garber]

I have a classical guitar for sale on Craigslist and I've been getting the usual spam emails offering to send me checks, etc, so i amended the ad. The last sentence now says, "Cash transaction only at the local police station."

I like that. Will prob use it in the future. For all my craigslist transactions I meet in my local Starbuck's parking lot in broad daylight. I don't want any people to come to my house and, besides, my ferocious little dogs will nip their buds off. :)

[Bill Clements]

besides, my ferocious little dogs will nip their buds off. :)
Yeah, we've heard about your attack dogs! They've got more bark than your mando!
Bow wOW! :))

[Jim Garber]

Yeah, we've heard about your attack dogs! They've got more bark than your mando!
Bow wOW! :))

That is for sure. I am the master of the Barkless Mandolin™.