Cast Tailpiece

[Onesound]

Sorry if this topic has been covered in detail before (didn't find specifics in a search), but I'm in the process of selecting a cast tailpiece. I've been looking at Allen, Price, Job, etc. I'm wondering which is the prefered design. Some seem to have a lot more mass than others. Which ones give more tone enhancement? Which ones protect from string rap points? How does the gold plating hold up, etc?

Thanks & Merry Christmas-Brian

[Loren Bailey]

I put an Allen TR2 on my Breedlove Quartz and it seriously affected the volume in a positive manner. Tone seems slightly deeper as well. My webber of course has a Webber tailpiece. I find the Allen is easier to change strings on than the Webber.

LB

[Andy Morton]

I also have the TR-2 on my Triggs A, and it did indeed help the tone. More sustain and slightly more volume. Nice addition to my mando.

Andy

[steve in tampa]

Have an Allen Montelone style on my MK, and put one on a Dean BGF and it hade a huge difference in sustain and volume. Very easty to change strings on also.
Have one in the shoebox for addition to another instrument when I get around to it.

[mandolooter]

I have a Price on my Givens...quite a bit of mass and real easy string changing, and the mando sounds great, but it came with a Price so I have nothing to compare it too

[berkeleymando]

I have no personal experience with it, but just for the sake of its beauty, Brian Dean's 'Job's Tears' new cast tailpiece looks nice. I like the one he offers in solid sterling silver. He's at www.bfolk.com

[Pattroglyph]

There is a true Monteleone cast tailpiece on both my Elliotts. It has silk windings to dampen ringing. #Love it. #Here is the link to Luthier's Merchantile if someone wants to get one.
Luthiers Mercantile International, Inc. (http://www.lmii.com/CartTwo/thirdproducts.asp?NameProdHeader=Cast+Mandolin+Tai lpieces)
The gold plating is holding up very well. Also the load on a cast tailpiece is transfered directly to one spot at the base. Other tail pieces mostly spread the load out over more of the wood. That seems logical that it might make a difference... possibly less dampening of the transfer of the vibration. Casting is the way to go.

[Evets]

Would my Gibson F5G benefit from a cast tailpiece?

[8ch(pl)]

I put a Weber tailpiece on my Mid Missouri M4 and really like the look as well as the tone. It has increased volume a bit, and the mandolin still sounds as sweet as ever.

I have always seen the Gibson type as a piece of stamped sheet metal, designed possibly in a trophy shop. I hate the sliding top. I believe this type of tailpiece adds it's own vibrations to the mix and that the stiffness and mass of a cast bronze tailpiece allows the strings to vibrate more freely. If I bought a Gibson mandolin, and I may someday, a cast tailpiece will soon go on it.

[otterly2k]

Can anyone tell me which, if any, of the cast tailpiece options take both loop and ball-end strings? I know Dean's takes only loop-end, since I already asked him. What about the others... Weber, various Allen's, Price? any others?
KE

[jasona]

They are all loopy. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif

[Michael Lewis]

Take a good look at the new tailpiece offered by Bill James. Machined out of solid material, not stamped, looks like an original Gibson style, and very well thought out and designed.

[gdafoe]

Can someone point me to a picture of the Bill James tailpiece. I can't seem to find that one. The Job is pretty cool looking.

[Bill James]

gdafoe,
Try this:
http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin....ce;st=0 (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=8;t=19033;hl=tailpiece;st=0 )

[otterly2k]

Cool design on that... still seems to take only loop ends, but has other nifty features. Bill... are these available? If so, please point me to where I can get cost info. thanks.

ps..gdafoe, aesthetically, I like Dean's Job's Tears tailpiece design too...the traditional look isn't as appealing to me personally.

[Ken Berner]

Each time I have installed a cast bronze tailpiece, the results have been quite good; the added mass seems to have been the reason. You might contact the different makers to determine the weight of each tailpiece you are considering. The Allen I used was lighter than the Weber and the Orricco (sp?) is heavier (and beautifully ornate) than each of the others. I don' know how heavy the Monteleone type is, but appears to be fairly heavy. The ones I've used added tonal character to my mandolins. If you prefer a more treble sound (vs. warmth) in your mandolin, you might forget adding a heavier tailpiece.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

I have, and have had, cast tailpieces on all my mandolins.
I have discovered as a general rule that when you install one on a cheaper (Epiphone, Dean, etc) mandolin, you'll get a more drastic and noticeable improvement in tone. On better made mandolins, that change in tone will be more subtle and may not be an improvement depending on personal preferences.

I beleive that rigidity has more to do with the change in tone than mass does (I'm not an engineer, so you may need to salt the following assertions). A cheap sheet metal tp is basically soft and will absorb a great deal of the low end frequencies, accentuating the high end frequencies. thus when you switch to a cast tp, more of the energy is transmitted to the mandolin and both volume and low end tone production increase. It's like putting a a new battery in your equalizer and boosting the low end a bit.

Personally, I like the affect that a cast tailpiece has on the tone of my mandolins. I have Randy Allen's handiwork on my "beach mandolin" (a Kentucky KM-630) and on my Weber mandola. My Capek has its original cast tailpiece which is a poor copy of a Monteleone tp. In the near future I'm going to move the Allen TR-2 to the Capek and get a Weber tp for the 'dola.

Best,
Daniel

[J. Mark Lane]

I have discovered as a general rule that when you install one on a cheaper (Epiphone, Dean, etc) mandolin, you'll get a more drastic and noticeable improvement in tone. #On better made mandolins, that change in tone will be more subtle and may not be an improvement depending on personal preferences.
That's interesting, Daniel. I reached the exact opposite conclusion. Having changed the tailpieces on about a half-dozen mandolins, ranging from a couple of Kentucky's to an MK to a couple of Morris's to a Givens Legacy...I concluded that the change will be more noticeable on a better instrument. On the worst of the instruments I have owned (the MK), there was no perceptable difference. On the Givens, it was a strong difference. I wouldn't even necessarily say it was an improvement, but it was different.

My conclusion was that on a clunker, there just isn't much that's going to matter, because it can't respond to subtle changes, period. It's just going to clunk, no matter what. But on a sensitive instrument, every change will matter.

Of course, I don't claim to know nuthin'.... Maybe some luthiers can offer their thoughts?

Mark

[Scotti Adams]

My vote is for the Bill James model...though I dont own one...just by looking at it and talking to Mr. James via Email...the man has flat got it down. Hope to own one someday.

[Michael Lewis]

Here in my vote for the bill James tailpieces. He let me sweet talk him into making a design that I came up with for the cover. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[atetone]

Michael, that fluted one on the left is a work of art.
Great design,,, very classy.

[Lane Pryce]

JMJ I agree. Tailpiece changes do not do much for tone on most beater type mandolins. I'll even go a bit further and say the tonal benefit on an even better quality mandolin is gonna be negligable. Easier string changes and asthetics are in my opinion the only qualities gained. Just my two. Lp

[Hans]

Just picked up 10 tailpieces from Bill James today. They are just beautiful. Installed the first and it was a snap.

Thanks Bill!

[Lane Pryce]

Hans every time I look at those tailpieces I envision cutting string changing time by half!! They look real nice. I especially like the ones done for Michael. Lp

[Gail Hester]

I just received three new Bill James tailpieces, two Silver, one Gold and they are awesome. Terrific new design and Bill is a real gentleman to work with.

[Daniel Nestlerode]

He let me sweet talk him into making a design that I came up with for the cover. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
Art Deco is about the coolest design movement ever devised: clean lines, sleek shapes. I especially like it when it is applied to metal objects, though I prefer Art Nouveau (the second coolest design movement ever devised) for wood shapes.

Just a really good looking tailpiece. Thanks for sharing.

Daniel

[8ch(pl)]

Hate to post twice in same topic. I did the church worship team this morning. I have to be heard over an electric guitar and a piano, the instrument is not amplified. I found it was effortless to get the volume since I installed the Weber tailpiece. I am really impressed with it. I know I said this in my first post, but this is the first time I played witht he church crew since I changed the tailpiece.

Best wishes.

[otterly2k]

FYI-
To answer my own question (and share it with others), Randy Allen says that most of his tailpieces DO work for both loop and ball-end strings. There are some that are ball-end only. The rest do both.

KE