View Full Version : Why learn tab...
I can read standard notation and more-or-less read ABC. Is there a compelling need for me to learn tab? What are people getting out of tab?
I assume there must be some info conveyed more easily than with the dots, or tab would never have been developed. I also assume that this info includes the specifics of arrangements on the mandolin--double stops, grace notes & ornaments, what position or string a given note is being played on where alternates are possible, etc.
Are my assumptions correct? How much of the tab that's out there includes this kind of detail, as opposed to just being the rudiments of the tune and how to find the notes in first position?
I enjoy working out how to fit a given melody onto the mandolin, and I don't need tab to help me, but I'm also interested in seeing other people's solutions and fave licks. Is that what I'll get with tab?
The only reason I "know" tab is because so few people can read. Its just easier to communicate with my guitarist friends who can't read if I understand tab. Its kinda like pig latin, you can pick it up in a few minutes and no, I really don't find that their is any more info communicated in tab. Actually, I would argue that there is less. But, tab is ubiquitous so I use it from time to time. It is much easier for those who read to pick up tab than the other way around. Tab is easier to start with, and I suppose less intimidating.
Yellowmandolin
Dec-04-2004, 5:00pm
Also, there are a lot of songs that people of put on the internet only in tabs. If you can't read it, then you are missing out...
Jack Roberts
Dec-04-2004, 5:50pm
Well, I don't want to start a war again, but I can read music, and I can read tab, and there is information contained in each that is not contained in the other. #If you think otherwise, you need to take a closer look at both systems. #Do recall that a formal system of tablature for stringed instruments pre-dates notation, and that the written form of music for all non-western instruments use other systems still. #If you want to learn traditional Japanese instruments, neither tab nor notation will do you a lot of good.
I submit that neither tab nor notation is enough. ##Anyone can learn to read either in a few weeks. #Most players with no formal musical training have trouble with notation because there is no correlation between the notes on paper and what you are supposed to do with your fingers and pick. #But anyone can spend a month or so on each key signature and get very good at it. #
Those who had even a little training in music at one time or another can all pretty much handle reading notation. #Tab is a little more#demanding for us in some ways, because if you don't actually pick through the tablature, you may have trouble hearing in your mind's ear what the music will sound like. #But, although I can read both notation and tablature, I can't play mandolin to my satisfaction, and I can't play violin at all. I can look at guitar music written in notation and have not idea how to play it, and I can pick out a guitar tune in tab but I would have no idea what it should really sound like unless I saw the notation, and better yet, heard a Segovia recording.#
Our lead singer is also a guitar/dobro/mandolin/charango player and he is also the most talented musician in our group (I know that isn't saying much, but he is actually a very good player.) #He can't read notation; he can't read tablature. #He just plays like magic. #Ray Charles couldn't read music, nor can Jose Feliciano read tab. #
So, which is better? #Whatever makes you a better player. #I found I use both, I need tab to play bluegrass, and I need notation to play Bach. #So learn both, and if you don't like one or the other, transcribe everything into the system you like, and be a better person for having the discipline to learn both and respect both for their strengths.
That sound you just heard was me getting off my high horse.
Jack
johnwalser
Dec-04-2004, 7:14pm
I read notation and understand Tab. I can play Tab quicker with much less brain processing time than notation. My problem is with such an eclectic taste in music as I possess, I have had to convert much of what I like to Tab. I finally developed my own Excel spreadsheet tab setup that lets me get full expression on timing of notation translated into Tab. It works for me!
John
Jim Garber
Dec-04-2004, 8:01pm
I can read standard notation and more-or-less read ABC.
As an aside to this question, there is a common confusion with ABC: it was not meant to be read as is but to be converted to std notation. You can see how the files are converted by pasting an ABC file into the window at this page (http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html). There are a number of conversion programs available.
Jim
fatt-dad
Dec-04-2004, 9:25pm
Eh, what's ABC? Is it something different from tab?
f-d
s1m0n
Dec-04-2004, 10:02pm
As an aside to this question, there is a common confusion with ABC: it was not meant to be read as is but to be converted to std notation.
That's not entirely true. If you read the ABC origin myth, it was developed by Chris Walshaw as a convenient way to jot down and retain tunes that he'd learned on a sojourn in Europe. This was before the days of the net, so from it's inception ABC was being written and read cold. Later, this system was refined to permit the emailing of tunes in ascii, and the first abc - standard notation conversion programs were written.
There are plenty of folks around who are fluent in ABC, and some who use it happily who can't read standard notation. When you think about it, ABC isn't any more abstract or difficult to learn than the dots.
Fatt-Dad, ABC (http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/) is a system of notating music using ascii. It's best at monophonic melody, but the standard has been adapted to just about anything you can imagine, from bagpipe ornamentation to multi-stave orchestration.
The earliest adopters of ABC are the celtic music community. Pretty much any tune you can think of--and thousands more you haven't--have been posted online in ABC. The ABC Tunefinder (http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/FindTune.html) is a search engine which will find you almost anything that's out there to be found.
Here's what a tune looks like in ABC. I typed "St Anne's Reel" into the tunefinder, and here's one result:
X: 14
T:St Anne's Reel
R:Reel
C:Trad
M:4/4
L:1/8
F:http://www.banjolin.supanet.com/Tunes/pvs_irish.abc 2004-12-05 04:51:17 UT
K:D
de | fedc edcB | A2 FA DFAD | BGDG BDGB | A2 DF AFAd | fedc edcB | A2 FA
DFAD | BGBd cAce | defe d2 :|
|: ag | fdfa fdfa | a g2 f g3 f | eceg eceg | b a2 ^g a3 g | fdfa fdfa |
a g2 f g3 f | eceg eceg | fdec d2 :|
There are tutorials which will help you figger it out, or you could just paste the funny-looking stuff into the Tun-o-tron cnverter (http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html) and produce standard notation. As well, there are (many) other applications which out there which can do the same on your PC, or play the tunes using midi, or do just about anything else. I haven't heard of one which can convert ABC to tab, but I wouldn't be surprised if it existed.
Martin Jonas
Dec-06-2004, 7:51am
I haven't heard of one which can convert ABC to tab, but I wouldn't be surprised if it existed.
TablEdit will do this, as will various other programs in more or less user-friendly fashion. I use a shareware program for, but forget the name now (it's on my home machine and I'm not).
I personally am in the same boat as johnwalser: I can read and understand standard notation, but find the amount of cognitive processing needed to convert it to finger movement to be inhibiting my picking speed too much for anything other than slow airs. I do, however, use the standard notation exclusively to figure out the rhythm of a tune -- I find it impossible to get that from tab-only scores. Thus, I end up either using dual staves or using standard notation with the fingering scribbled above. Either works fine for me.
It's a somewhat deplorable state of affairs, though: I'm well aware that my dependence on having the fingering written out is what inhibits my ability to sight-read standard notation at speed and that if I just took the jump and stuck to standard notation exclusively, I'll be able to recover my full picking speed after a few weeks of painful transition. I just don't have the energy to break out of my comfortable niche. Maybe over the christmas break...
Martin
Tab only helps in suggesting finger positions (7th fret instead of open...etc).
But many times this is not correct too as a lot of tab is computer generated.
Jim Garber
Dec-06-2004, 8:21am
I have been in an entirely different boat during my musical life. I learned notation early on with piano lessons and then guitar. However, most of my folk music education involved learning tunes and chords by ear. I have had little patience for deciphering tab.
Ove the last few years I have been mostly reading music on the mandolin and fiddle. I have gotten to the point where I can actually sight read chords pretty quickly on the mandolin. The facility does improve with time.
I am much more comfortable with using notation as a source. This allows me to play the music of other instruments other than mandolin.
Jim
generankin
Dec-06-2004, 9:40am
I have been in an entirely different boat during my musical life. I learned notation early on with piano lessons and then guitar. However, most of my folk music education involved learning tunes and chords by ear. I have had little patience for deciphering tab.
I've taken violin lessons, piano lessons and, in the past year, guitar lessons. #I've studied music history & theory, and the best I can do with with any facility with notation is to get the dynamics, timing & rhythm down sorta well. #With tabs, I can muddle my way through, but I need the notation (or a recording) to get the dynamics,timing & rhythm. #My teachers never really figured out that I was learning by ear or by watching, so I never got the foundation that I should have acquired (had I bothered to actually work at learning to read) .. so I fumble between using ear, notation, and tabs. #Which means I can improvise like a sumbitch, but I can't play what's written down without a lot of sweat.
All of which goes to show you: #shortcuts ain't a Good Thing. # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/sad.gif
But many times this is not correct too as a lot of tab is computer generated.
That's what I've been suspecting. Is there an easy way to tell from the source what you're looking at?
Jack, The Yodeling Bach-man said:
Well, I don't want to start a war again, but I can read music, and I can read tab, and there is information contained in each that is not contained in the other.
I have no intention of starting a war... there are those much better at that than I... but I'm curious as to what information can be conveyed in Tab that cannot be conveyed in standard notation. Could you please elaborate?
One of the reasons I've moved away from Tab is because of what's been stated: you learn what string and fingering to play rather than what note needs to be played. I'm not proficient at sight reading, but by spending more time on standard notation I'm finding than I'm more aware of where the notes are that I want instead of just learning the fingering for a particular tune. I still learn a lot by ear, too, but I figure whatever gets you there is good.
Paul Doubek
Andrew Werner
Dec-06-2004, 9:17pm
WOW!!! This is great!! #I Play Piano, Trumpet, Classical Guitar( for over twenty years) and now Mandolin, and soon to be Violin. Tablature for me is an easy way to transpose between instruments. For a quick #reference; Guitar tuning E,A,D,G,B,E #a Mando G,D,A,E, #In standard notation it would be hard to pick up either instrument and be able to crank out, lets say St' Annes Reel #unless you have a very good understanding of the #instrument, and the tunings involved. I started on the Piano, but you really don't get layed playing the Piano, so I switched to the Guitar,"which I really do love" to Trumpet to fill in the Jazz part of me, and now to the Mando. Even though I can read notation, and really read it, and not just #the Every good boy does fine, Face, All cows eat grass ,Good boys do fine always stuff, but all the fermatas and stacatas too. But to transfer from one instrument to the other, Tab is the way to go. Well that's my two cents anyway Drew,
A mandolin is a terrible thing to taste. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Jim Garber
Dec-07-2004, 6:44am
Tablature for me is an easy way to transpose between instruments.
Huh? Are you saying that in order to play the same tune on two different instruments, say mandolin and guitar, you transpose to tab for each instrument? It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to just learn to read the same notation for both. Just my 2¢.
Jim
PaulD
Dec-07-2004, 10:04am
...transpose to tab for each instrument? It seems to me that it would be a lot easier to just learn to read the same notation for both.That is my impression... unless you have a Tab generator for the computer.
I'm still am unclear on how Tablature can communicate information that standard notation can't. I'm not saying it can't... I would like to know if there's an advantage I'm missing out on by not using Tab. I have yet to find fiddle/violin music tabbed out, although you can obviously use mando tab. It seems that you can communicate a lot of the nuances of music with standard notation and it's portable to any western instrument. I am open to looking again at tablature if there's some value I missed the first time around.
pd
Martin Jonas
Dec-07-2004, 10:39am
The difference is fundamentally that tab is specific on the fretting, and thus on the position on the neck, whereas standard notation is not. #If the tab is generated automatically from the standard notation, or from an abc file, then there is no benefit, of course. #However, if whoever wrote the tab wants to convey specific fingering information, then this is more straightforward that starting to mess around with annotations on the standard stave. #Here (http://www.nigelgatherer.com/tunes/tab/tab5/stim1.html) is an example of tab and standard notation for a specific arrangment of Summertime. #The tab version gives you info on how to play the slides and hammer-ons which is missing from the standard notation.
Another example is in Simon Mayor's "Mastering The Mandolin", where he gives a version of "Turkey In The Straw" in standard notation, with two different tab staves underneath corresponding to different fingerings. The pitch is the same, and therefore the standard notation is the same, but one version is played in second position, the other in third.
Martin
PaulD
Dec-07-2004, 11:36am
Thanks Martin... that does make sense! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif I was overlooking the fact that a specific fingering may be desireable when trying to learn how someone plays a particular piece. I know that my fiddle music and your Summertime example do indicate slides and some ornamentation with standard notation, but one particular fingering may be easier than another and that's not indicated in standard notation. The ornamentation for a particular instrument is probably more clear in Tab than standard notation too. Looks like I would do well to consider Tab when I'm learning tunes when it's available.
I'm going to make use of the Summertime versions you referenced too! That's a great tune.
Paul Doubek
mandodebbie
Dec-07-2004, 1:23pm
I use both Tab and standard notation. I have found that a lot of music written for mandos (ie. oldtime or bluegrass) is in tab. However, I enjoy the challenge of playing the other genres such as classical which is mostly always written in standard notation - and though originally meant for piano, I can adapt the music to mandolin. I believe there is more music in standard to be found on the Internet and music shops than in mando tablature. (Then again, one can try transposing fiddle tab to mando.) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif
Jim Garber
Dec-07-2004, 1:51pm
Fingering, slides, hammer-ons, ornamentation etc, can all be indicated in std notation almost just as well as in tab. It just gets more compliocated looking if you are not as familiar with it.
Jim
TablEdit will do this, as will various other programs in more or less user-friendly fashion.
Will it go the other way, as well? ie, take in tab and spew out abc or standard notation?
Wendy Anthony
Dec-08-2004, 10:32am
I use both notation and tab (and sometimes abc), depending on the situation/availability ...
Reading any music is a skill developed through use ... after years of classical piano and music theory, I can sight read notation with ease ... this ability gives me access to an incredible selection of all types of published music ... public libraries often have large music manuscript collections (much of which is no longer available to purchase new) ...
When I first began to play mando, I enjoyed the challenge of learning to read and write tab ... it helped me duplicate my efforts, or some hot-lick from a mando-whiz ... when I was first learning to play old-time music, I would pull the crumpled notation paper from my pocket between tunes, to scratch down the fretted note numbers and rhythm, helping me remember for another time.
Tablature makes it easy to share mandolin music with someone who doesn't read notation ... or to document that late-nite composition that just flowed from your fingertips, never-to-be-repeated-again! ... 1 note (&/or it's octaves) can be found in 2 or more places on the fretboard, so tab can make learning to play beyond the first position much easier #... tab can also contain rhythm information, if notation-like stems are added to the fret numbers.
When I play along with TablEdit files (my music stand seems to have been replaced by my notebook screen!), I view BOTH notation and tab ... I find my eyes will often move back and forth between the two ... this could be one way to begin learning to read notation (or tab); while reading/playing from tab, your brain may start to associate some of the notation with what you're playing!
TablEdit will convert abc, MIDI and ASCII tab text to-AND-from both tab and standard notation ... Every TablEdit tune in the MandoZine TablEdit Archive (http://www.mandozine.com/music/tabledit_search.php) is available as both notation AND tablature ... the viewing Options determine what you see ...
** To view Both Tab and Notation ... in File menu (Score in TefViewer or click X-icon under menu) > Options > General > Screen Mode > Check both Notation and Tablature (you can also adjust the Vertical Spacings to make it easier to read on-screen) > Apply > OK
** To view the rhythm and timing in tab ... in File menu (Score in TefViewer or click X-icon under menu) > Options > Display > Note Stems > Top Down (you can also choose Up or As In Notation) > Apply > OK
** Converting tab between instruments is quite effortless if you use MIDI, instead of changing instrument tuning ... in TablEdit File menu > Export MIDI (from the original instrument), then File > Import MIDI (Transpose +/- 12 if you loose notes at the low or high end) into the new Instrument module, with the proper tuning ... tho you still may have to tweak a few notes to make the fingering more playable, this works much better than just changing the instrument tuning ...
Keepin' tuned ...
Wendy Anthony
Peter Hackman
Dec-08-2004, 11:03am
Well, I don't want to start a war again, but I can read music, and I can read tab, and there is information contained in each that is not contained in the other.notation will do you a lot of good.
I submit that neither tab nor notation is enough. Anyone can learn to read either in a few weeks. Most players with no formal musical training have trouble with notation because there is no correlation between the notes on paper and what you are supposed to do with your fingers and pick. But anyone can spend a month or so on each key signature and get very good at it.
Those who had even a little training in music at one time or another can all pretty much handle reading notation. Tab is a little more demanding for us in some ways, because if you don't actually pick through the tablature, you may have trouble hearing in your mind's ear what the music will sound like.
I learned notation in school years before I started playing,
at the age of 14. It was taught in music class
and I had no choice but to
absorb it, because my mind was a sponge in those days.
Whether this was good I will never know, but I guess
for several years I didn't quite trust my ears - playing
with others, ear music, e.g., bluegrass, helped a lot,
however.
So today, when I see a piece in notation I usually
hear it, if it's not very tricky, with intricate
or ambiguous tonality.
What I culd possibly need, apart from that, are
some fingering and position indications, esp.
on mandolin where I tend to play in rigid positions much
more than on guitar where I just play all over the place.
I suppose I could spell my way thourgh tab, but nevedr
actually *read* it.
Wendy Anthony
Dec-08-2004, 1:16pm
I just thought of another reason for learning tab ... I've been able to learn a number of otherwise-unavailable-tunes from on-line tab sources, or by tabbing some sought-after-tune for another mandolin player ... with the internet making it a small-world-after-all, I've been able to post the text-tab on-line, sometimes within hours of a request being made ... this just wouldn't be possible with notation
Christmas in Killarney Tab Request (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST&f=24&t=20492&st=0&&#entry216372)
Keepin' tuned ...
Wendy Anthony
There are a few reasons why I prefer notation over tab. #In tab you can't see the contour of the music...tab cannot be sight-read up to speed. #With the notation, one can read ahead much faster by recoginzing the shape of the melody. #And rhythm. #Geez louise. #Rhythm is so important and it's very ambiguous in tab. #Of course, if you're learning it by ear as well, you can pick up the rhythm that way...
There are humongous fakebooks out there with bazillions of tunes in notation. #You can learn cool tunes no one else is playin. #Why not make a little more effort and learn a much more efficient way to read? #It rocks, I swear.
angrymandolinist
Dec-08-2004, 2:57pm
tab cannot be sight-read up to speed.
Really? I have trouble believing that.
But I'm more in the notation camp. As Ash said, the contour of the music's much easier to grasp, and understanding the shape of the melody is pretty important IMO. With notation, you don't have to wait around for someone to tab out an unusual song you like; if it's in the mando's range and you have the notation you're good to go. There's no question about the rhythm and no hassle if you want to play the same tune on a totally different instrument. Too, notation conveys lots more information, I think, than tab. Inserting info on dynamics and tonal characteristics (legato and staccato, fermata...) is more evolved in notation.
Not that tab's without merits. When there's a "slur" symbol in sheet music, you may not know whether to hammer on/pull off or slide; positions are unambiguous; it's MUCH faster to write than notation- a lot of the time you don't even need to draw lines, but if you're jotting notation you need lines, leger lines, measure bars, the various circles with rhythm flags, and rest symbols that are, I maintain, impossible to draw correctly. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif
I'd say it's good to know both. Think of tab as your second musical language- at home you may not use it much, but when you go off to other places it doesn't hurt to know what they're saying.
Martin Jonas
Dec-08-2004, 5:31pm
It seems I'm not the only one who operates a dual system -- I can't even begin to figure out rhythm from tabs on their own, so standard notation is a must for me, largely for the rhythm, but also (as mentioned by ash) for the shape of the music. However, I still much prefer having an additional tab stave (or annotation) to give me the fingering. The annotations I use are quite straightforward: "D4" stands for 4th fret on D (i.e. an F#), "E7" for 7th fret on E (i.e. a B), and so on. The level of abstraction needed to do the notation-to-finger-movement conversion at speed is simply too high for my eye/hand co-ordination at this stage. I really should go through the pain barrier and just force myself to do it for a few weeks, and then have it for life.
Martin
I have been trying to think of information contained in tab which is not covered adequately in notation. Evenwith regard to fingerings, a good composer/arranger/conductor will often "suggest" fingerings in notation. This generally amounts to "open" or "closed" fingerings. I couldn't really think of why one might need to learn tab, I posted on this question earlier and equated tab with pig latin. However, when I flipped open my composition notebooks I shocked myself with the ammount of tab I had jotted down in just a couple of months. I agree that notation conveys the overall feel and direction of a piece in ways tab cannot, but tab has apparently been extemely useful to me when jotting down riffs and runs when they occur to me. Its easier to draw four lines than five. I think that is my answer, tab is just easier and more accessable on the fly. By the way, I can sight read tab with regard to pitch, or with a tune I already know, but I have difficulty gleening the rhythm of an unfamiliar piece with tab.