Newbie

[DonnaZ]

Hi Everyone,

I am a guitar teacher and have a student interested in Mandolin. I have a mandolin and can play basic chords so I let her borrow it. She is loving it; and wants to purchase her own. Do you have recommendations for a good mandolin & instruction books? She is a good guitarist and I'd like to see her in an instrument that will sound satisfying. So far, it seems that a spruce top and flamed maple back/sides are what gives the mandolin it's punch. The Ibanez M522S F-style has a solid spruce top and laminated maple back/sides for $299. I'm thinking this might be a nice mandolin for her that is in her price range. I'd also be interested in knowing what instructional books you suggest. I ordered "The Mandolin Primer" by Bert Casey for now; but would appreciate your suggestions. I'd like to get her up and running and if she decides that she wants to study the mandolin beyond basics, I will then be looking for a specialized teacher on mandolin. However, for now, I would really appreciate your expert advise.

Thanks so much!

Donna

[Rodney Riley]

Most here on the Cafe recommend that for a starter mando to look for an A-style. You pay for the extra labor involved in the F-style scroll work that only adds visual interest. The same labor put in an A-style makes a lot better mando for the money. Also the style of music she will be playing will determine if she will want an round/oval hole or the f slots in the top. And make sure you have a mando tech for setting it up. (guitar only techs have no idea what is involved) Or buy from a reputable store that includes the set-up. Eva Holbrook with the group SHEL plays an A-style. Has a lot of youtube videos that are very interesting.

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?19074-Women-with-Mandolins/page94

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?77409-Slash-s-Little-Sister&p=968946#post968946

[Randi Gormley]

also, people who know about these kinds of things say that learning the mandolin is not learning "a little guitar" since the basic techniques -- including holding the instrument and hand placement -- are not identical. You might want to scout the Mike Marshall Youtubes to make sure that nobody learns bad technique that has to be unlearned. Just my 2 cents worth (I've never played guitar, so I just go by what I've read here)

[yankees1]

Type in mandolin instruction youtube and you should locate something to help.

[Jill McAuley]

For the same price as that Ibanez you can find an A style mandolin that's all solid wood - check out some of the Kentucky models in that price range (vs. the Ibanez's laminated back and sides), plus if gotten from somewhere like The Mandolin Store or Folkmusician.com it'll arrive with an excellent set up - something your student will appreciate since she's already a good guitar player - I came to the mandolin via guitar as well and the number one thing for me when seeking out my first instrument was (and still is) playability.

Cheers,
Jill

[Santiago]

Big Muddy Instruments are also popular all-wood mandolins for students. There is one in the classifieds now. (I have no financial interest in this instrument, but a noted expert had recommended one to me when I first started to play Mandolin)

[mandobassman]

I would probably stay away from Ibanez. I have never heard a good one at any price. Their older mandolins from the '70s were great, but the new ones, no so much. The previous suggestions about going with the A style is sound advice (no pun intended). At the low end of the price range, you will generally get better sound quality with A style mandolins. The lower end Kentucky mandolins are great starter instruments. If you get much lower end than those, you're getting into the Rogues, Johnsons, Savannah's and they not only don't sound very good, but they take a lot to get them playable (nothing worse than trying to learn on a difficult playing mandolin). Here's some suggestions...

From the Mandolin Store - Kentucky KM150, KM160, KM162.
http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodList.asp?brand=9

From Janet Davis Music - Kentucky KM140 (great price), KM150S (also great price).
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/kmand.html

From FolkMusician.com - Rover RM-50, Revival MA10 & MA15 (I've heard real good things about these mandolins).
http://www.folkmusician.com/A-Style-Mandolins/products/29/0/1

All of these places will include a good set-up.
Hope this helps.

[PT9Baja]

X2 I bought a Kentucky 160 from another dealer and got it with a poor setup and had to learn how to set it up. I really like the mandolin for looks and quality and with some patients and a lot of google I did my own setup and am happy with the sound and playability. I am still learning basics and a total novice but find it fun to learn both playing and how to work on it. I am liking Greg Hornes Beginning Mandolin and another book, Absolute Beginners Mandolin by Todd Collins. There is so much online info and lessons its gets to be too much but if your looking for something specific its there. Good luck
for the same price as that ibanez you can find an a style mandolin that's all solid wood - check out some of the kentucky models in that price range (vs. The ibanez's laminated back and sides), plus if gotten from somewhere like the mandolin store or folkmusician.com it'll arrive with an excellent set up - something your student will appreciate since she's already a good guitar player - i came to the mandolin via guitar as well and the number one thing for me when seeking out my first instrument was (and still is) playability.

cheers,
jill

[metamando]

Agree with all of the above, and Welcome to the Cafe, Donna!

[DonnaZ]

Thanks so much for all the great information and welcome! She is very motivated and did some research on her own. Right now she is leaning toward the KM505 A-style and a Rover RM-75 F-style. Based on your advice, I'm suggesting the KM505 A-style. I also like that it has an ebony fretboard. She found these mandolins at Instrumentality.com for a good price & my guitar tech is also a luthier who works on violins and vintage instruments. He set up my mandolin beautifully, so I think he could do a great set-up for her.

@Rodney - what are the different genres of music played on an oval soundhole as compared to the F slots?

[EdHanrahan]

As a converting guitarist (probably 80% of mandolin players are), I've found the Greg Horne series of books to be most helpful: "Beginning Mandolin", "Intermediate Mandolin", and (written by Wayne Fugate) "Advanced Mandolin". They they don't gloss over details that a guitarist would assume incorrectly and/or misinterpret, as some other beginner books do. (Yep, first-hand experience!) Mine came w/ CDs, but at least the the first one now comes w/ DVD.

If it wasn't expressed previously, let me just say that folks here are tickled by your curiosity & openness, to the extent of actually asking questions! You wouldn't believe how many folks come here after their obviously guitar-oriented teacher gave them horrendous advice: hold your hand this way, remove one string of each pair, trade it in for this model, etc.

To me (w/ decades on guitar, several years on mandolin), the biggest difference is that the fretting hand is held at an angle (like a violinist's) with the fingers, each covering two frets, extending & retracting along the length of the fretboard, not each finger extending across a single fret as a guitarist's would.

These are generalities but... F-hole instruments tend to be louder but with less sustain than oval/round-holed ones, so f-holes are the way to go for bluegrass, doing battle with LOUD banjos and fiddles. Round holes are "said to be" best for folk & Celtic, soft & melodic, etc. BUT, as the most important determinant of tone is the player's grip & feel, an f-hole instrument is probably adaptable to more styles than a round-hole one (a point that has been debated endlessly).

YES: The Kentucky KM-505 is an excellent starting point, and might never need an upgrade.

Well done! You guys are gonna have fun!

[Markus]

She found these mandolins at Instrumentality.com for a good price & my guitar tech is also a luthier who works on violins and vintage instruments. He set up my mandolin beautifully, so I think he could do a great set-up for her.

That vendor has had some people report issues, I would look into it and see if you're comfortable.

And do please support your good local repair tech - I'll really miss the last local guitar/instrument store closing, but I'll have a serious problem when the last local string instrument repair shop closes. I wouldn't let that steer you away from purchasing from a good mandolin vendor who will set it up first ... any new instrument seems to `settle' a little in the first months/year and will be visiting the local luthier then either way.

[Rodney Riley]

These are generalities but... F-hole instruments tend to be louder but with less sustain than oval/round-holed ones, so f-holes are the way to go for bluegrass, doing battle with LOUD banjos and fiddles. Round holes are "said to be" best for folk & Celtic, soft & melodic, etc. BUT, as the most important determinant of tone is the player's grip & feel, an f-hole instrument is probably adaptable to more styles than a round-hole one (a point that has been debated endlessly).

Think Ed's info is better than what I could have given you. But will add that for classical stuff there is the bowl backs or 'tater buds they are sometimes called. It's been discussed a lot here. But from what I have seen, the player has the biggest influence on how his/her instrument sounds to the music they are playin. Getting started and enjoying these little beasts is the main thing. Later when MAS rears it's ugly head, she will try and find the mando with the sound she is looking for. Keep us posted. We love to see pictures/videos and hear sound clips here in the Cafe.

[PT9Baja]

I can"t give a expert opinion but I have an opinion. A set up is very important and a reccomended dealer who sets up many mandolins a year is the best way to go. One of the highlighted dealers above has the 505 with a case ,free shipping and a proper setup at a good price. The set up alone is worth the $ difference.

[DonnaZ]

Thank you everyone for all this valuable information! I got super busy with Christmas gigs and didn't have a chance to get back to you; I apologize for this late response. My student is hoping for a mandolin on Christmas; so I will report back what happens. Sincerely, Donna

[DonnaZ]

Hi Everyone,

Well this geetar player/teacher has sure learned a lot about the pitfalls of purchasing a mandolin! To a guitarist, set-up just means getting the action adjusted. I had no clue that set-up for a mando means that the bridge needs to be attached and the nut slots need filing, etc. She ordered a KM254 from an online general guitar store, and it arrived yesterday needing all the set-up work. She was super disappointed. The local tech is not available for weeks, and the poor kids is dying to play her mando. She is thinking of returning it and purchasing at The Mandolin Hut (will have them in stock in a few weeks) or The Mandolin Store (has them in stock). The Mandolin Store was recommended above; but not the Hut. The Hut has a very extensive explanation about set-up however. Would truly appreciate your advice. Thanks so much!!

[Kip Carter]

If you don't have someone close I know Joe Vest takes in setups shipped in from most anywhere... he's in Nashville. A good setup is critical to the enjoyment of the instrument. He goes by Big Joe on here his profile is at http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/member.php?6990-Big-Joe. If you can't fine a local Luthier to do the setup consider spending a few days in shipping back and forth to get it done right.
Regards,
Kip...

[DonnaZ]

Thanks Kip! I'll pass that along.