Vega cylinderback mandolin serial numbers

[Charles Johnson]

I have a Vega cylinder back mandolin serial number 32013. Does anyone have a clue as the to date of manufacture? If it was a banjo it would corrospond to around 1914. Did Vega use consectutive serial numbers for all instruments?

[danb]

Charles, if you don't have any luck off the bat I have a somewhat reclusive friend with good notes on Vega instruments I could try to raise on the phone

[Eugene]

Nothing is published and little is known. The Cafe's own Bob Devellis (http://bellsouthpwp.net/r/d/rdevelli/Vega%20307%20Mandola.htm) has done some exploring into this. I believe his last line of thinking is that Vega's mandolin and banjo serial schemes might coincide. I expect this topic will attract Bob. Hopefully, he will elaborate.

[danb]

Interesting that so little is known! I'll get in touch with Paul and see what sort of notes or information he might have on dating Vegas by the serial numbers

[Mandobar]

charles, call brian wolfe at acousticmusic.org. george youngblood has his shop in the adjacent studio and he is quite a storeroom of knowledge on these things.

[Linda Binder]

Sounds like 1915 or 1916 based on where the serial number falls in comparison to other Vegas I have on a chart from Paul (a fellow Milwaukean)
-Linda

[Jim Garber]

I have a Vega cylinder back mandolin serial number 32013. Does anyone have a clue as the to date of manufacture? If it was a banjo it would corrospond to around 1914. Did Vega use consectutive serial numbers for all instruments?
I have a list of Vegas in the Milwaukee Orchestra. I believe that the banjo numbers may also work for the mandolins. The list includes #29348 1913 and #32843 1916, so you may be correct as to the date of 1914 (or possibly 1915).

I await Bob D's comments.

Jim

[Bob DeVellis]

Yeah, it looks like late 1915 to early 1916 based on the serial number and other features such as use of rosewood and presence of Handel tuners (although those may not be original unless they were a special order). Rosewood was discontinued some time close to 1917, based on the catalog info I have. Handel tuners ceased to be readily available around 1917 when WWI made importing from Germany a problem. So, all of those facts put it between 1913 (when cylinderbacks first appeared) and about 1917 (Vega moved to Columbus Avenue in 1917 and a catalog with that address [and thus appearing in 1917 or later] shows the 205 as having a maple back).

Charles and I spoke about this instrument, which sounds to be a rosewood Style 205 that has been thoroughly restored. Should be a great mandolin.

[danb]

Here's a list from the Milwaukee Mandolin Orchestra..

Serial Year Instrument Type
39•80 mando-cello
28578 1912 T-mandola
28844 1912 T-mandola
29348 1913 mandolin
32843 1916 mandolin
34141 1918 mandolin
34166 1918 mandolin
34544 1917 mandolin
36281 1919 mandolin
37132 1919 mandolin
37543 1920 plectrum-lute
37644 1920 T-mandola
38239 1920 mandolin
38339 1920 mando-bass
38615 1920 mandolin

[Linda Binder]

Mine wasn't added to the list but it's 38331. It's a lovely birds-eye maple backed cylinderback and it's currently for sale! I have to get around to taking pictures and listing it.
-Linda

[ira]

don't know about serial numbers, but these are my favorite old mandos. i'll never be able to afford one, so if anyone is concerned that they can't find enough info and wants to donate it to a good guy who will care for the mando and play it daily, please contact me and i'd be willing to take it off of your hands.:;):

[Linda Binder]

That's good of you Ira http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif
-Linda

[Linda Binder]

Gee, not to shoot myself in the foot or anything, but I just noticed Bill Bussman has a lovely one for sale which he just listed in the Cafe Classifieds.
-Linda

[jasona]

Maple backed cylinder...priced nicely too. If I had the money... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Mandobar]

ira, there have been a few that have gone under $1k on evil-bay.

[Dave Caulkins]

Heh,

There was one in the classifieds, but someone traded a Rigel for it... Hmmm... I wonder who that could be? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

Dave

[Brian T]

Mine is SN 38349. Guess that puts it at about 1920 or so. Label says Columbus Ave. So it's definitely post 1917. In birdseye maple and just a beautiful sweetsounding instrument.

[Dave Caulkins]

Hmmm... Decided to compare my Vega Mandola SN with this list...

The SN is 29391, placing it in the 1913ish area. This would be a fairly early cylinderback mandola, I guess. Wasn't the patent established in this time? Were instruments produced "patent pending"? Elderly guessed at 1916, but this seems unlikely now. This would possibly explain why my instrument is not a "two-point" style but a teardrop "A" type shape (I don't think I've ever seen another Vega like it). I wish more was known about Vega, like its contemporaries Gibson, Martin, and such. It's a great instrument, despite the abuse it's seen in the years before me (the top isn't doing so hot, I would guess that years of heavy mandola strings in the post war years had some affect). Eventually it is slated to go to Rigel for a rebuild/restoration (my favorite modern builders and fellow Vega freaks).

Dave

[Jim Garber]

Hmmm... Decided to compare my Vega Mandola SN with this list...

The SN is 29391, placing it in the 1913ish area. This would be a fairly early cylinderback mandola, I guess. #Wasn't the patent established in this time?

The patent wsas 11/4/13 (see scan). It is interesting that it is a design patent rather than a mechanical one, in other words, more of what the instrument looks like than how it functions. This drawing shows a two-point.

Many of these instruments have warped tops. I have a nice mahogany one I got relatively cheap with the top sunk. Still plays tho.

Dave, just curious what Rigel charges for retopping. Ballpark figure?

Jim

[Dave Caulkins]

I talked with Peter, about 2 months ago, before I had received the mandola. I knew the top had distorted, and I assumed the fretboard needed to be replaced - which turned out to not be true. I was requesting a guesstimate towards radiusing the board as well as replacing it (I asked primarily because I was wondering if it could be done - it can). The quote was approximately $1000, all said and done. Not quite in my budget, yet, but I'll just shim the bridge for now until the work becomes unmistakeably necessary.

I'm not certain if this includes any inlay transfer or new inlay work, which I would undoubtedly want done. I suppose to some folks this seems like a lot to spend on a mando that probably would only fetch $1500 (which would equal the total I'll be spending). For some reason, it doesn't feel bad to me - I just love Vegas and so many of them have been mistreated and disrespected over time that I want to see them back in their glory.

Dave

[atetone]

Leshii,,, about 2 or 3 weeks ago a teardrop shaped Vega cylinderback mandolin sold on ebay.
I had never seen one before either and was going to go after it just out of curiosity but I ended up winning a different mando earlier that day and had to let it slip by.
Can't remember how much it went for right now. I'll see if I can backtrack and find it.

[atetone]

Leshii,, it was ebay item #3761310057 and it went for $465.
Sorry I had to pass on that one.
I have serial # 35014 and just love it. It is a mandolin not a mandola.
I would like to send it out for a bit of luthier work but don't want to part with it just yet.
I need a new nut, bridge, a bare spot on the top touched up, and would like to get the tuners replaced which might be a bit difficult since it has the old style post spacing and the posts are also very short compared to the newer styles.
I am wondering if anyone knows of a good luthier who has experience with these mandos. I see Rigel is a contender. Anyone else??

[Dave Caulkins]

Well,

My new Vega is off to a luthier I have no experience with for a new saddle and set-up (I'm going with Thomastik Mittels for this, I hope they aren't too heavy - though I recall somebody having used these on old Cylinderbacks). I will recant this experience upon completion. I'm heartened as the folks I brought it to recognized the instrument and its difficulties (the question/statement, "Your tuners work ok, right? You know you can't replace those easily, they haven't made those in 40 years" speaks volumes itself. Not to mention they stressed how non-invasive the luthier is...)

Apparently, my 205 is a later model as well, I think the number begins 39... but, alas, it is not in my hands. This mando is a keeper, I don't regret my trade (I think Kate at Maple Leaf in Brattleboro thinks I'm mad though... heh... MAS is dangerous...). In a way, I'm saddened by the numbers of people giving up these treasures, but it's not so bad for those of us who want them. I think of these as being the finest (and affordable), non-bowlback, classical style mandolins out there (although I'm dying to play a Lyon and Healy, but that MA$ I don't need!).

When the instrument is back in my hands, I will return to composing music (not just writing folk-rock tunes, as I have been doing) - long neglected since I left music school. I'm thinking of a nice period piece, an authentic setting for mandolin orchestration. H.P. Lovecraft, anyone? (for those in the know... I want to write mandolin orchestra music for the Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath as well as others).

Happy Holidays,

Dave

[atetone]

Leshii, I will be very interested to see how your luthier does with yours. Mine needs a new nut, bridge and maybe tuners also.
I am considering who to send it to for this work. Not in a big hurry but will start looking in the new year.
I put a set of T.I. Mittels on my cylinderback and didn't like it one bit. They just felt like they were too much for the mando.
Took away some of the ring and just felt like the mando was under too much tension. Maybe I overreacted but I got them off there right away and went back to some Martin medium strings for now.
I have some light T.I.s on the way and I am going to try them out.

[Linda Binder]

A very good luthier with Vega experience is Denny Rauen in Milwaukee http://rauenguitars.com/bios.html
--Linda

[Dave Caulkins]

There seem to be a number of luthiers with experience on Vegas, especially up here in the north country (I think Vega's Boston home is part of the reason). There is a shop in Holyoke, MA (Bernuzios, maybe?) that frequently come across Vegas and restoration seems to be part of the store's purpose. Tony Creamer at Fretted Instruments in Amherst, MA is an enthusiast of Vegas I believe and if Lynn is still working with him, she is a fine, fine luthier. I didn't bring my mando to either place because of my current 'low impact' needs - and I get sick of driving north and south on I-91. I like having a luthier within standard driving distance (~ 1 hr or so), for standard set up and maintainance work.

I think it would be hard to beat Rigel in the arena of Vega restoration, as they have built replicas as well as overhauling old abused cylinderbacks. They are enthusiastic about the instruments, and when it comes time to strip the overspray off my 205 and refinish it - they will get the job. Peter is a joy to talk with, and they do build some beautiful, if off beat, mandolins. If you're looking to send off your instrument, I would send it there. I fear the hands/boots of UPS and FedEx - thus I'm scared to send anything anywhere much especially in a NE winter.

Not to say that Rauen is not good enough (I looked at the page, looks like he does some great work). I'm just sort of bioregional in my acoustic pursuits... Eh, once a hippie...

Dave