Technique - Tremolo with rounded pics

[Chip Booth]

Hi all, #I have been experimenting with every pick I can get my hands on and have come to the general conclusion that I like thick rounded picks like the Dawg or Golden Gate for the general tone. #My favourite tone has been a borrowed tortishell pic shaped like a Dawg and about the same thicknes. (Sure wish I could get hold of some legitemitely old tortis for myself, dont want to harm any more critters.) My question is this: I like the tone of these pics when generally picking or chopping, but they are difficult for me to get a good tremolo tone from. #The rounded edge and thickness cause the pick to just glide off the strings and I loose most of the volume. #It's very noticable when playing with others, I sort of 'disappear' when I tremolo. #I have experimented with adjusting my hand position to strike the strings at sharper angle and that helps but feels very ackward. #Any suggestions or anyone else experiencing the same thing?

Chip

[johnwalser]

I also had it in my mind that Golden Gates and Dawg picks would be best for tremolo. I held 'um in every manner, at every angle and stopped just short of standing on my head to make them work. Never had a bit of luck!! Then I went to a workshop with John Moore and Byron Berline and they were asked about picks. They both said they used Fender Extra Heavies and so have I ever since. The tone is great for the music I play and while I can't match Evan Marshall in tremolo, my tremolo works well enough that people don't point and laugh at me anymore.
John

[SternART]

Maybe try lightening up on your grip........Grisman has the best tremelo in da bidness & he uses Dawg picks.

[Ott]

wegen picks helped me with a louder tremelo they have a beveled edge that catches the strings a bit more than the dawg or GG picks.

[Plectrum]

I've also been experimenting with a lot of different picks lately and since my user name is Plectrum, I thought I'd chime in. #I'm a beginner with the mando, but longtime guitar player and have used Fender heavy picks for many years. #I like the feel and tone from Fender celluoid or their premium celluoid. #I found an extra heavy in a drawer last night, I'll have to give that a try.

I've also tried the Dawg and Golden Gate and prefer the Dawg, for mando anyway, as it's not as slick and easier to hold. #I'd been using the Dawg picks but discovered the Dunlop 207 is my favorite, so far, for picking mando and it works well for guitar too. #It's not slippery, it's very thick physically and warmer tonewise than the Fender heavys, IMHO. #It's has a similar shape as a Fender standard pick, but the point is more rounded. #Too green on mando to comment whether its better for tremolo than the Dawg pick, I'll need to experiment with that myself.
#

[onlyagibsonisgoodenuff]

I've tried about all of the picks mentioned here, and more. I don't know how anyone can play with a rounded pick. But that's another thread.

I currently use a Tortis (imitation tortise shell, $20) Style C heavy guage. My experience is that the point allows for nice clean notes when I'm picking single notes, and the bevel on the edge makes for incredible tremolo.

I think the shape of the point on the triangle is better for all techniques than the shape of the point on the Fender style teardrop picks.

Once again, these are my own observations and everyone is different otherwise there wouldn't be as many kinds of picks as there are! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Chip Booth]

I agree with OAGIGE, I really like the feel of a point better but I hear over and over that people love the rounded pics for tremolo, and I like the tone of the rounded pics I have been using otherwise, so just wondering if anyone can chip in on how to get that danged round pick to stick to the strings.

Ott, the Wegen is the next on my list to order, and I have hopes that the bevel is gonna do the trick. #So far all the rounded pics I have used do not have a bevel.

[Eugene]

I agree with OAGIGE, I really like the feel of a point better but I hear over and over that people love the rounded pics for tremolo, and I like the tone of the rounded pics I have been using otherwise, so just wondering if anyone can chip in on how to get that danged round pick to stick to the strings.

Ott, the Wegen is the next on my list to order, and I have hopes that the bevel is gonna do the trick. #So far all the rounded pics I have used do not have a bevel.
I doubt this is relevant on this side of the message board, but you really don't hear of classical or traditional Italian players who "love the rounded picks for tremolo." If you're not used to a point, it will take a bit of effort to learn to not "dig" and catch on the strings in tremolo, but classical players (and I) certainly favor pointy plectra. I also bevel my pointy plectra. Check out Carlo Aonzo and David Grisman on Traversata. Grisman, of course, is the patriarch of fat, round picks. Aonzo (who is the first or only mandolin on most of this CD, the guy in the left channel when there are two mandolins) favors pointy picks in Neapolitan or sometimes Roman style. As mauch as anything, this CD is good at demonstrating the difference in quality tone from the two types of plectra. Differences between plectra are best demonstrated on track 4, "Manzanillo," because Carlo and David play almost identical mandolins by the same maker on this track.

[abram]

I always thought that the more pick area you have striking the string at a time translates into more tone coming out of the instrument. That's why I stick to Golden Gates, they just seem to get the best tone out of the instrument. I think it is easier to pick with a pointy pick, but you just have to learn how use the rounded sides.

[steve in tampa]

I can tremelo fine with any pick. I use the Golden Gates or Dawg because I prefer the darker sound and more control on dynamics.

One approach you might try is to not hold the pick exactly in line with the strings, but at a slight angle to take advantage of the rounder edge. Pointy picks are easier to dig in with, and control of speed and dynamic is the issue with tremelo techniques.

A good practice drill is to tremelo slow eighth notes for four bars, and do one bar bursts of sixteenth notes, thirty second notes, sixtyforth notes, etc., going back to the original speed in between.

[Eugene]

I can tremelo fine with any pick. I use the Golden Gates or Dawg because I prefer the darker sound and more control on dynamics.
I can tremolo fine with Golden Gate picks too, but, unlike most folks who spend their time outside the "Classical" section, I do not like the sound they generate on the set up I prefer for my mandolins in my prefered genre. I think Golden Gates shine in maximizing the percussiveness of the chop. That technique is as alien to classical music as duo technique is alien to bluegrass.

I also don't have any difficulty controlling dynamics with a traditionally pointy Neapolitan-style plectrum. Dynamics with such a thing are typically controlled not through the degree of force with which one attacks the strings, but--and this works because pointy picks function best when kept perfectly parallel to the strings--through careful control of the degree of pressure with which the plectrum is gripped.

I am not going to try to persuade bluegrassers to go pointy; frankly, the tone of such picks wouldn't really be appropriate in that context. I'm trying to clear some misconceptions of the pointy pick, of which associated techniques have been being refined for the last 250 years. All those classical players haven't been wrong.

[Eugene]

Ott, the Wegen is the next on my list to order, and I have hopes that the bevel is gonna do the trick.
PS: You can take a few grades of nail file to any pick to create a very fine bevel tailored to your liking.

[bmac]

My own focujs is on blues mandolin so maybe my comments will not apply as well to bluegrass. I have found the rounded triangular pick Fender medium to be very effective for tremolo. The pick offers several alternatives When playing normally the pick is held at the same angle as the strings. This gives the cleanest tone, probably close to the same as a pointed pick.

Depending on the tone desired the angle of the pick alters the tone. Cleanest tone comes when the pick is the same angle as the strings (as mentioned above).

By angling the pick 5 or 10 degrees from the angle of the strings the tone softens as the string loses the snap. If the pick is held at say a 20 degree angle or more the pick will simply slide off the string and very little sound will emanate.

The Fender medium pick mentioned is the same pick I use on guitar. It works well and I am comfortable with it.

[Philip Halcomb]

Practice will do it, I had the same problem at first. I use the dawgs and can tremolo for hours non-stop...

[Chip Booth]

Flip and Steve: to be more precise, I shouldn't say I can't tremolo with these pics, I can do it just fine, but rather there is a noticable drop in volume versus flatpicking. #I don't experience this with pointed pics or things like the Fender triangles. #It's probably only a matter of about 10% difference in volume and is hardly noticable when playing by myself but makes a real difference when playing in an ensemble. #After a few days of practice with the rounded pics it is getting better, but any technique suggestion I can use to try to even out the volume is appreciated.

"You can take a few grades of nail file to any pick to create a very fine bevel tailored to your liking."

Eugene, I was thinking the exact same thing, and plan to do some surgery on a Dawg real soon.

[steve in tampa]

I have found that the Dawg picks wear out a flat spot quicker than the Golden Gates. Dang tremelo is tough on the equipment!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[mrbook]

I found my tremelo improved using the Dawg pick, but one night on a dark stage I dropped mine. All I could find in my four pockets (two pants, two vest) were regular heavy guitar picks (I get them imprinted with out band name), so I finished the night using the upper rounded corner. I never went back. I use the upper corner mainly because it keeps me from picking too deeply.