Weber or Eastman

[ChrisR]

Hello everyone,
I'm new to the board and am trying to decide which model to buy for my first mandolin. Through the many discussions I've read, I've narrowed it down to either a Weber Aspen #1 or an Eastman MD805. I want to be able to play every style celtic, jazz, bluegrass, old-timey, classical. You name it. Any votes on which is the better instrument of the two I've chosen. Thanks, Christopher.

[Stephen Perry]

They're different. Webers are sort of modern type mandolins. Eastmans are very traditional. If you want to hear an Eastman, give me a buzz Tuesday and I'll demo a couple. We did have a Weber traded for an Eastman, which surprised me a bit. Both were very nice.

Steve Perry 866 884 6546 (toll free info line)

[dwc]

I added a reply to the other post, basicly saying I like my Eastman MD805 but that you might also look at Hyalites and Absarokas in the Webber line.

[mad dawg]

I'm with DWC: the Weber Absaroka is a better like-to-like comparison with the MD805, as it also is a carved-top mandolin with F-holes and maple back and sides. The Aspen is a flat-top instrument that is a good mandolin, but is not going to perform as well in a Bluegrass jam setting as the Absaroka and MD805. Your best bet is to find shops near you that stock mandolins, play everything that is within your budget, and buy what you fall in love with.

[Steven]

Your BEST bet is to buy AMERICAN every single time.

[ChrisR]

Thanks guys.
Dwc: I read your post. The simplest answer as to why a Aspen instead of a Hyalite is the price. While it might not be too big a difference, even a couple extra dollars makes my wife cringe. Also, it might even flow right into that other thread where I prefer oval holed mandolins better. Maybe for another post, but I wonder if women who have instrument acquisition syndrome have husbands who threaten to divorce them http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif . I think, on the whole, women who are musicians tend to marry men who are, also. Whereas men tend to marry non-musician wifes. Only because more men tend to play instruments and collect than women do, I suppose. So women probably have it easier in that respect. Sorry for the ramble. It's early in the morning and I haven't finished my tea yet.

[Steven Stone]

Steven said: [Your BEST bet is to buy AMERICAN every single time.]

Yeah, Why?

Perhaps a bit more reasoning and a bit less posturing would be more germaine to the discussion at hand?

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/rock.gif

[dwc]

I have to agree, I really don't care where an instrument comes from as long as it has a tone I like. I like Webbers alot, I think my dream mando would be a simple Beartooth. However, the economic realities are that Eastmans are a very good deal. Consider what was said above. An 805 which is about $1000 compares with an Absaroka which is alot more. For many of us, including perhaps (although I do notknow this for a fact) the original poster, $1000 is about the limit. That means a flattop American, a used American, or a PacRim. Period. Sorry to burst the bubbles of all those opposed to imports on general principle, but the truth is imports are a better deal, particularly in a starter to mid priced instrument. That being said, I had a mando lesson today and really listened to the differences in tone between a Hyalite and an Eastman. Granted, the Eastman is new and the Hyalite is not, so its not quite a fair comparrison, but the Webber did sound better in that the Eastman still has a somewhat generic tone. The trebble of the Eatman was a little flat, not quite bell like as in the Webber, and the bass was not as full either. That is just one guys opinion buried in quite a long rant, but its there for anyone who cares.

[dwc]

Sorry, one other variable I forgot to include. My teacher is a far superior player and that probably had something to do with the difference in tone. He played my Eastman and it sounded better in his hands than mine, although the tone was still more generic than when he played his Webber.

[PlayerOf8]

What's the AMERICAN equivalent to Stradivari?
What's the American equivalent to Ferrari?
Lloyd Loar? was that a Navajo name?
Perhaps a bit more reasoning and a bit less posturing would be more germaine to the discussion at hand? I'm with Steven on this one.
I play a Weber, in fact my face can be seen on their site, but it had nothing to do with where they make their instruments. I've played some very expensive home grown mandoins that even wrapping in the flag couldn't help.I'm waiting for a Eastman 960 oval hole now.

George

[recklessmando]

I've been noticing Absarokas going for about 1K lately. In fact, there's a beautiful one in the classifieds right now for $1050 and another sold recently for a hundred less. Seeme to me they're in the same price range.

[Mark E. Smith]

I can add a least a little insight - I recently bought an Eastman MD805 from the Classifieds (thanks, Steven) and had a chance to compare it to a Collings MT and a Weber Absaroka at a local dealer. The Eastman compared very favorably with the Collings - the Collings was arguably superior (great action, clear tone, loud) but not by much. In this case, the Eastman had the Weber beat by the same margin the Collings beat the Eastman. Now, one must consider that this is ONE Eastman against ONE Weber, so it would be foolish to extrapolate from this one result to say this comparison would always hold. But, it would seem to indicate that the MD805 is at least competitive with Collings and Webers.

Also, in the tough arena of comparing apples and oranges, there are some styles of music where to my ear my Mid-Mo M4 (flat-top) sounds as good or better than my MD805. It can't make the quite the volume and it doesn't quite have that "woody" tone for BG, but it is clear and musical and intonates well. I would suggest checking out the Mid-Mo's if you're considering a flat-top. As always, YMMV.

[Mando Mark in Indy]

I have a MD615 available for sale and it's very nice. High flame top to bottom, even and clear tone with lots of sustain all the way up the neck. Click here (http://www.franksviolins.com/guitarmandolin.asp) to see it now!

Mark

info@franksviolins.com
www.franksviolins.com (http://www.franksviolins.com)

[f5joe]

May I remind a few of you that this is the World Wide Web, a global community. As an American, I find it arrogant to preach "Buy American". Listen to yourselves.

Thanks, off the soapbox now. Love, f5joe

[Steven]

Hmmm.Well the fellow asked for a vote.I would think that the people who responded to this post would be given the benefit of the doubt about thier vote without being flamed.Frankly I couldnt care less if this is the world wide web,it seems to me that answering honestly is more important.I stated that his BEST "bet" is to buy AMERICAN.Heres why:In terms of consistant build quality/quality control I feel the American mando is superior.My opinion,and you know what they say about opinions...everybodys got one.But hey guess what as long as you guys brought it up,I'm proud to be an AMERICAN.I support AMERICAN workers.I'm sorry for you guys if my being patriotic offends you,I'm not looking to make enemies or to offend anyone.If you like to send your dollars to the workers of another country while the workers in your own country lose thier jobs....well what goes arround comes around...count on it.

[ChrisR]

To an extent, i believe Steven is right. While the quality of these Asian made instruments are getting better and prices remain cheap on them, it is still a fact that the artisans making them are not getting anywhere close to a decent work wage and most likely being worked relentlesly. I'm sure we are all aware of that. I will however concede that there are great luthiers from many countries producing very good, if not great, instruments, doing what they love, and charging reasonable prices, maybe more than the asian made ones, and sometimes alot more, but we've all said it before, "you get what you pay for". I'm sure it's probably morally better to buy a mid-mo than an eastman based on those observations. Or any of the other fine luthiers from England, Ireland, Australia, so forth and so on. In fact, that was my final choice. I purchased a Mid-Mo M2 today. When I learn how to play and am confident the mandolin is my chosen, lifelong companion(and I hope it is), then I will move up the ladder accordingly. It's not a simple matter and we all must make up our own mind as to what matters most to us. We obviously can't avoid buying from "sweat-shop" companies completely, especially when it comes to the necessities of life, but there are some areas of life's pleasures where we can avoid that. You'd think I was a Green party candidate. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[neal]

Ohmy. Another fun thread turned into a political rant. Ahem, Steve and Gianna are from America, they sell Eastmans and try to make a living.

If you want real American, buy Little Debbie Snacks! Mmmmm, Debbie.

[ChrisR]

Not trying to be political just pointing out the reality of the situation. They could just as easily sell Mid-Mo mandolins and make a living, but I am not denigrating their decision. People have to make a living including those suffering long hours, little pay, and intolerable working conditions so you can have a quality instrument at a low price. I'm not saying anybody is wrong. i'm not saying, "buy american". Obviously you can't change the world by not buying an asian made mandolin, and it's too bad little stores have to sell "morally compromised" made instruments to stay in business so that they can sell the occasional high quality instrument, but you have to do what you have to do.

[Stephen Perry]

To an extent, i believe Steven is right. While the quality of these Asian made instruments are getting better and prices remain cheap on them, it is still a fact that the artisans making them are not getting anywhere close to a decent work wage and most likely being worked relentlesly. I'm sure we are all aware of that. I will however concede that there are great luthiers from many countries producing very good, if not great, instruments, doing what they love, and charging reasonable prices, maybe more than the asian made ones, and sometimes alot more, but we've all said it before, "you get what you pay for". I'm sure it's probably morally better to buy a mid-mo than an eastman based on those observations. Or any of the other fine luthiers from England, Ireland, Australia, so forth and so on. In fact, that was my final choice. I purchased a Mid-Mo M2 today. When I learn how to play and am confident the mandolin is my chosen, lifelong companion(and I hope it is), then I will move up the ladder accordingly. It's not a simple matter and we all must make up our own mind as to what matters most to us. We obviously can't avoid buying from "sweat-shop" companies completely, especially when it comes to the necessities of life, but there are some areas of life's pleasures where we can avoid that. You'd think I was a Green party candidate. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
"it is still a fact that the artisans making them are not getting anywhere close to a decent work wage and most likely being worked relentlesly. "

Absolute drivel and completely incorrect as regards Eastman luthiers.

[delsbrother]

I dunno, these were obviously Made in Japan. (http://www.littledebbie.com/Images/products/angel.gif)

[ChrisR]

I was going to add a disclaimer that I don't know the case about Eastman "artisans". And I'm sure you are right, but I'm sure you also never made a tour of their facilities. Which makes it equally sure both of us will never know the total truth. As for private artisans, they often don't sell enough to make a living and usually have to work another job, but they don't suffer making these fine instruments or they just wouldn't do it. it's not a matter of do or die. if they are hungry or need to take a piss or want to chat on a computer forum they can get up from what they are doing and do it.

[ChrisR]

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/blues.gif <---Anyone else think this emoticon looks like a Hasidic Jew?

[ChrisR]

As a postscript, it might be true that the artisans at Eastman don't "suffer". But it is still true that they are cheap labor. Working conditions are probably less than perfect. And I'm buying me an Eastman tomorrow. Bernunzio vintage instruments is selling two mint condition Eastman MD805's for 875. G-d, I love cheap labor.

[mad dawg]

I'm proud to be an AMERICAN.I support AMERICAN workers.
If you buy an Eastman, or a Michael Kelly, or a Kentucky, or mandolins from whatever other US-based company that sources instruments from overseas, you are still supporting American workers. These things are not shipped directly from China straight to your door, as there any many American hands that touch them before they end up with Joe Consumer. Many Americans are gainfully employed thanks to the fact that these companies exist, so when you buy an Eastman, you can pride yourself in the fact that you are supporting American workers.

[PhilGE]

You can buy a used Aspen that's 100% built in the USA for easily around $600 to $650. That's great craftsmanship with lots of bang for the buck. Even with my Old Wave, I have yet to sell my Aspen. I may eventually, but it'll be hard to let it go. It has great tone. I've strung it up with T-I's. It's a wonderful "intimate" sound. With phosphor bronze strings, it's purrs along brightly.

-Phil

Played my Aspen while handing out candy to about 250 kids on Saturday. Only a rare few knew it was a mandolin and not a "neat small guitar!" #Fun to do a bit of music education on Halloween!
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[f5joe]

My only point in all of this is that it's arrogant to assume an American base. I have a custom-made American instrument, Australian, Japanese, Chinese, and others. I support anyone's decision to, for example, only buy Canadian, US, or whatever. Just don't assume that the web revolves around Americans.

[PhilGE]

A few last thoughts...

There's no right or wrong, really, to all of this, just different consequences. I've jumped in with both feet in the past, so, mea culpa.

Those of us privileged to have ready access to the Internet probably have access to the world market. Thanks for this reminder, f5Joe.

$$ value and moral values can easily jump out as arguing points, but that's really not the point of this board, is it?

And now, back to your regular broadcast of music!

-Phil (shoving that soapbox back down into the basement)

[f5joe]

"$$ value and moral values can easily jump out as arguing points, but that's really not the point of this board, is it?"

Good point! It's all good!

[neal]

I dunno, these were obviously Made in Japan. (http://www.littledebbie.com/Images/products/angel.gif)
Nope, made in Collegedale Tennessee. #I've even been there. #They don't make very many mandolins though.

[Stephen Perry]

Chris, Eastman US and Eastman China are the same thing. The luthiers are very well paid, very well trained folks. These are professional luthiers highly skilled in violinmaking. I urge you to call Gordon Roberts or Sol at Eastman and have them describe the facilities for you and the income of the luthiers. This has been gone over many times in the past. One of the reasons I've supported and worked with Eastman for so long.

Steve

[BluegrassPhilfromFrance]

There are fine luthiers all around the world. I've got a Larrivée 12 strings guitar (Canada), a Beltona resonator guitar (New-Zealand), two Franck Cheval 000 guitars (France), a Monteleone mandolin (USA), a #19th century bowlback mandolin (Italy), and I'm waiting for an Octave mandolin built by Hervé Coufleau (a very promissing french luthier who lives two blocks from me !). If you feel like Winston Churchill you'd say "I'm not complicated, I only care for the best !" So, in my opinion, everybody should be attached to look for the best, wherever it comes from and not being tied to a specific country, especially concerning the music, which once again, is universal ! #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[delsbrother]

I dunno, these were obviously Made in Japan. (http://www.littledebbie.com/Images/products/angel.gif)
Nope, made in Collegedale Tennessee. #I've even been there. #They don't make very many mandolins though.

http://www.littledebbie.com/Images/products/angel.gif
http://www.japan-guide.com/g2/ib227001.gif

BANZAI! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

(Hmmm.. no mando content + bandwidth-eating images.. I sense a deletion soon)