The best way to represent the mandolin in the rock music

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hi,

I was invited to take part in a two hours radio show dedicated to the mandolin in the pop/rock music. This is an excellent opportunity to introduce our beloved instrument to a big audience. I would like to do it in the best possible way and this is why i need your help.

How do i represent the mandolin in pop/rock music at its best? Any ideas are appreciated - such as: list of the ultimate rock songs including mandolin (keep in mind the 2 hours limit), important information, curious facts, quotes, etc.

Thank you very much for your help!

Best,
Plamen

[Steve Ostrander]

I would serach the archives. There was an extensive list compiled of mandolin in rock songs.

[journeybear]

Here is the link to that thread - listing of rock songs w/mando (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?18398) - which you know of, because you have contributed to it. ;) My alphabetized compilation of entries there is on posts # 95 & 96, though I still need to update that to include subsequent contributions, qv. :whistling: But I think what you want is some more focussed input, a selected few examples.

Obviously, you have to include "Maggie May," "Friend Of The Devil," and "Losing My Religion". These are the biggest hits with mandolin in them, "Maggie May" in particular, which really put mandolin on the map. Mandolin had appeared in rock earlier - Ry Cooder played it for the Rolling Stones on "Love In Vain;" The Band used it on a few songs, most notably "Rag Mama Rag;" Grateful Dead included it on "Friend Of The Devil" and "Ripple" of course, which also introduced David Grisman to the world - but that is the song that made it known around the world, and it still is the one that gets asked for by people who have seen the mandolin for the first time (as does "Friend Of The Devil"). Seals And Crofts used it extensively through the 1970s. "Losing My Religion" by R.E.M. introduced the instrument to a new generation of listeners, and rekindled interest in the instrument nearly twenty years after "Maggie May." There is an interesting article here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/news/publish/mandolins_00938.shtml) about Ray Jackson, who played that famous riff. These are the obvious ones, but it's a start. :mandosmiley:

[JEStanek]

This might be the mentioned thread (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?18398-listing-of-rock-songs-w-mando).

Jamie

PS. It looks like you posted in that thread.

[mandocrucian]

Here's a couple hours of recommended material:

Led Zep - "Going To California", "That's The Way"
Elton John - "Holdiay Inn"
Jethro Tull - "Fat Man", "Christmas Song", "Kelpie", "Tall Thin Girl"
Fairport Convention - "Angel Delight", "Flatback Caper"
Rory Gallagher - "Goin To My Hometown", "Leaving Town Blues" (off the compilation Rattlenake Guitar: The Music of Peter Green)
Ry Cooder - "Billy The Kid", "Goin' To Brownsville"
Johnny Winter - "Too Much Seconal", "I'm Not Sure"
The Band - "Rag Mama Rag"
Grateful Dead - "Ripple", 'Friend Of The Devil"
The Hooters - "And We Danced", "Karla With A K"
Nash The Slash - "Dance After Curfew"
Lindisfarne - "The Fog On The Tyne"
Rod Stewart - "Maggie Mae", "Mandolin Wind", "Gasoline Alley"
Heart - "Sylvan Song/Dream Of The Archer"
Dan Hicks & The Hot Licks - "Where's The Money", "O'Reilly At The Bar"
Richard Thompson - "The Knife Edge"
Richard & Linda Thompson - "Poor Little Beggar Girl", "Smiffey's Glass Eye"
Sass Jordan - "I Want To Believe"
REM - "Hairshirt", "The Wrong Child", "Man In The Moon", "Losing My Religion"
John Hiatt - "Trudy and Dave"
Steve Earle - "Galway Girl", "Copperhead Road"
Spinal Tap - "Stonehenge"

also mando tracks on discs by Counting Crows, The Black Crows, Cheese String

NH

[journeybear]

Good list! I believe a lot of these are available on youtube one way or another, so you don't have to spend a whole lot to get up to speed. Also from Led Zeppelin: "The Battle Of Evermore." Seals & Crofts are important to mention because I think they are the only major rock or pop band for which mandolin was one of the member's main instruments. That is, not used as a means of adding some variety to their sound, but all the time. This is still very rare.

BTW, for an example of recent use, try The Gourds' version of Snoop Dogg's "Gin & Juice." Mandolin is the driving force in that. Careful of the language, though. ;)

[Eliot Greenspan]

although they call what they do poly-ethnic cajun slamgrass, or something like that, Leftover Salmon definitely cross over into the rock genre plenty... I'd say Drew Emmitt knows a thang or two about playing/presenting the mando in a rock context. Especially some of his slide work...

also, mentioned above, String Cheese Incident

Railroad Earth, Hot Buttered Rum, and the whole slew of new Jamgrass/Newgrass/x-grass bands, play plenty of "rock" music

[journeybear]

I forgot to mention songs by Seals & Crofts (that would help) - "Summer Breeze," "Diamond Girl," "Ridin' Thumb." I know I am sounding like I'm a big fan - I'm not, though I always liked them - but I only recently learned the extent to which they used mandolin. Trying to make up for lost time, I guess. It was so well-integrated into their sound I didn't even recognize it until much later. :redface: Since they were popular in the early Seventies, they, along with Rod Stewart, were responsible for the instrument being on the airwaves at the time. Those two acts, and then a long way down to the next.

[journeybear]

I should also include this, from just last week - Jeff Bird of The Cowboy Junkies tearing it up and blowing people's minds on Jimmy Fallon's show. This is a great example of the mandolin's use in rock music today - on a country song, no less - even if it is still - after all this time - a footnote in rock history. (This will repeat on NBC late Wednesday night, about 3:50 AM.) From their facebook page:

http://s401.photobucket.com/albums/pp94/theaudiopervjr/?action=view&current=Title_01_02_Segment100-00-07-00-05-10.mp4

and from a few months ago (video is better above, but NBC forbids embedding):

[Plamen Ivanov]

Thank you, folks! Yes, of course, i know about the listing with rock songs w/mando thread. I was wondering what would be the most representative extract of that list. Of course, it's a matter of personal preference. I'll stick to the most popular bands. It's a good approach, i think. OK, this seems to be the easier part.

I have to say something about the origin of the bluegrass mandolin, which is mostly used in the pop/rock music. The bulgarian audience is pretty familiar with the bowlback mandolin, but the people don't even recognize the bluegrass mandolin as a mandolin.

Something else? Curious facts, tendencies, whatever...

[billkilpatrick]

i'd say any of the hot guitar licks you find in rock would be suitable for the mandolin - not only do they sound great but they're way easier to do (imho) in 5ths. have a go at "and your bird can sing" by the beatles on the mandolin to see what i mean - great stuff.

[mrmando]

See if you can throw in an Arcade Fire song ... they won a big Grammy award last night, so they're another example of a current band with mandolin. Unfortunately I'm not familiar with their music, so I can't recommend a song.

[journeybear]

That's true. The lead singer plays a resonator mandolin occasionally, though he didn't at the Grammys. This gets mentioned every now and then, like here, (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?49320) where his playing it on SNL in 2007 got discussed a bit. In fact, if you search the forums using Arcade Fire as your parameter, you will find a lot of material on more current mandolin use in rock by other bands as well.

[John Flynn]

In addition to talking about bands and tunes, another suggestion is to spend some time focusing on "celebrity." Broadcast media audiences seem to find that aspect interesting. You might research a bit on how well-know music celebrities, like Paul McCartney, Jimmy Page, Stevie Winwood, etc. wound up adding mandolin to their repertoire of instruments. That kind of human interest angle is a good change-up in a show like you describe. There was even a thread here on famous people who played the mandolin that was pretty interesting, people like O. Henry, Orville Wright, etc. That is a bit of a deviation from your main topic, but it adds interest.

[Plamen Ivanov]

Yes, John, i was thinking abot that. Thank you very much! Steven Tylor is also pretty popular here. Now i remember that the Edge (U2) plays mandolin in a song from their last album.

Martin, thanks - this is a hot topic, i will make a research.

Thank you, guys!
Plamen

[journeybear]

I know by now this is a FWIW, but after some digging I found the name of the song and a performance of it. Not much mandolin content, so no help for the presentation, but here it is, also with hurdy-gurdy:

[Ed Goist]

i'd say any of the hot guitar licks you find in rock would be suitable for the mandolin - not only do they sound great but they're way easier to do (imho) in 5ths. have a go at "and your bird can sing" by the beatles on the mandolin to see what i mean - great stuff.

I agree with this completely, except for the frustration caused by the frequently used low E, F & F# notes in rock guitar riffs! :mad:

[Ed Goist]

JB thanks for posting the Keep the Car Running video...Fantastic stuff!!

[journeybear]

If you liked that, then you should love this, sloppy camera work and overenthusiastic commentary and all:




Accordion instead of hurdy-gurdy, an Ovation (?) instead of the resonator - it can actually be heard. ;)

[journeybear]

Just to keep the record straight - back in post #9 I said "Wrong Piano" was a country song. I erred there - someone said it was a Vic Chesnutt song, and my mind's rolodex went to Mark Chesnutt, who was pretty big in country in the 90s. I'm a little surprised no one called me on that - you guys are slipping! :) Anyway, now we got that sorted out ... Next!

[russintexas]

Thanks for pointing out this "wrong piano" video. Completely fabulous.

[Plamen Ivanov]

Thank you all once again for your suggestions and useful information! The show will be broadcasted on 28 March. It will be a one hour show starting at 19:00h EET (UTC/GMT +2 hours). You can listen to the program online here: Radio Sofia online (http://onlineradiobg.com/online/Radio-Sofia/128/)

Best,
Plamen

[journeybear]

So, by my calculations, that will be at noon EST (UTC -5:00), though since the US will be on daylight time then (starts this weekend, folks! :disbelief: ), that will be 1 PM EDT (UTC -4:00). Perhaps you should put this on the calendar - pretty sure some people look there - and also remind us closer to the broadcast.

Looking forward to it. Good luck! :mandosmiley:

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hi,

This is just to remind you about the radio show on monday. Journeybear, how can i put it on the calendar? I guess it is a MCMB feature, that i'm not familiar with. Thank you!

Radio Show - "The mandolin in pop and rock music", 28 March, 2011, 19:00h EET (UTC/GMT +2 hours), that will be 1 PM EDT (UTC -4:00). You can listen to the program online here: Radio Sofia online (http://onlineradiobg.com/online/Radio-Sofia/128/)

Best,
Plamen

[Plamen Ivanov]

OK, i put it on the calendar.

[journeybear]

Hey! Good going. Nice to know some people listen to me. :grin: I learned something too - setting a reminder notice, because I can count on myself to forget. ;)

I hope you had a good time putting all this together, especially auditioning the selections. Looking forward to listening in!

[journeybear]

I was listening in - nice selection, a mix of the familiar ("Maggie May," "Friend Of The Devil," "Mandolin Rain"), the less familiar (Emmylou Harris with Sam Bush, Paul McCartney's "Dance Tonight," a Jethro Tull song I didn't know), and the fairly obscure (the opening song, a couple others which of course I can't name.) I couldn't understand a word of the commentary except when a performer's name got mentioned, but it seemed things went well, and the host laughed a lot, usually a good sign.

It brought me back, it did, especially the second song in the program, "Maggie May," when the DJ turned down the end, just after it finally got to the mandolin :( ... just like the old days. :grin: That may not have been the best song to put up so early, as there is a lot of time before the coda. Perhaps "Friend Of The Devil" would have been better there; historically earlier too, FWIW.

But that aside, it was cool to listen to radio from the other side of the world. I couldn't figure out how to download it - don't know the language nor even the alphabet - and I guess it really wouldn't be too useful to me. But I wonder if you could post a playlist.

I hope you enjoyed yourself. Sounded good out here in radioland!

[Plamen Ivanov]

Hi journeybear,

It should have been a tough task for you, because of the language, but thanks for listening! :-)

Here is what happened... I prepared a list of thirteen pieces:

1. Tu vu fa l'Americano (Ricardo Carosone)
2. Boat on the river (Styx)
3. Love in vain (Stones)
4. Losing my religion (REM)
5. Maggie May (Rod Stewart)
6. Friend of the devil (Grateful Dead)
7. Going to California (Led Zeppelin)
8. Dance tonight (Paul McCartney)
9. Acres Wild (Jethro Tull)
10. Little Ghost (White Stripes)
11. Mandolin Rain (Bruce Hornsby)
12. Iris (Goo Goo Dolls)
13. White as snow (U2)

However it turned out that we have to include also some country and bluegrass songs inbetween, because it is indeed a country/bluegrass program and there was no time left for the last few pieces of my list. Besides we talked too much obviously - about the history of the mandolin, about Gibson, about the mandolin performers in all of the above pieces, some interesting stories and facts about the bands, etc. It was supposed to be a one hour show, but the host was so excited, that we made it a two hour show. And yes, we had fun. We know each other for a long time, we have the love to the music in common and it was an easy going conversation and the time was flying so fast. I think it was good for the Bulgarian audience to listen to a show like this. I got some nice responses this morning.

Best,
Plamen

[journeybear]

It went for two hours? :disbelief: My connection dropped at the one hour mark and I assumed it was over. :( Well, no matter. I hope a lot of people tuned in and got turned on to the mandolin and its capabilities. If there is a next time, try to include some electric mandolin. Might as well go for it all!

And thank you for doing this and furthering the cause of mandolin consciousness! :mandosmiley:

[ambrosepottie]

My first post on Mandolin Cafe. I just bought a tenor guitar from one of the forumites here and have been gleaning info the last few days. Great site.
Here is another Canadian band, Crash Vegas from the early 90's. This song was a top 10 hit in Canada and yes there is a mandolin. Played by Colin Cripps, a great guitar player and very occasional mandolin player. I play drums on this track.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7qgZdswpHQ

[Jim Ferguson]

I echo Journeybear..........when I think of pioneers of pop/rock music involving the mandolin I 1st think of Seals & Crofts......I have been a big fan of theirs for 40+ years. Dash Crofts is a very good mandoliner........played a nice Gibson on some pieces and also an electric mando on a number of pieces. There are a # of live performances from the California Jam concert of 1974 that Journeybear posted the video of.........check them out.........some great mando playing. Also the Midnight Special videos.....nice stuff. Here is Summer Breeze: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPLfDBcu_U0
Here is Diamond Girl: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5b65hociXU&feature=related
Here is Dash doing some nice electric mando on High on a Mountain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrEKAF8Kbfs&feature=related
Peace,
Jim

[Ed Goist]

My first post on Mandolin Cafe. I just bought a tenor guitar from one of the forumites here and have been gleaning info the last few days. Great site.
Here is another Canadian band, Crash Vegas from the early 90's. This song was a top 10 hit in Canada and yes there is a mandolin. Played by Colin Cripps, a great guitar player and very occasional mandolin player. I play drums on this track.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7qgZdswpHQ

Hi ambrosepottie; welcome to the Cafe!
Thanks for posting the link to the track.
Very enjoyable song, and your work on the drums is mighty fine!

[ambrosepottie]

Thank you. Now back to trying to figure out tuning in 5ths. And whether a mandolin or OM is in my future. The mandocello is over the top. But in a good way.

[journeybear]

Theoretically, at least, the harmonic at the 7th fret is supposed to be the same as the harmonic at the 12th fret of the next higher string.

Or get a tuner. :)

[ambrosepottie]

I guess I meant playing in an instrument tuned in 5ths. I usually keep a tuner on the headstock so it will get that cool buzzing rattle. It's the drummer in me.

[journeybear]

My goodness! Each of us is funnier than the other. We should quit the music biz and start a comedy routine - though there is probably even less money in it than music! :disbelief: :crying: :))

By the way, I have been remiss in saying, nice song. :mandosmiley:

[ambrosepottie]

Thanks. But I've heard the money is in children's music.

[Jim MacDaniel]

If you can get yourself a show on Disney, then you're golden; else the money is in children's books.

[JeffD]

Naaaah, its childrens clothing.