When did your light come on

[Pen]

So a few weeks ago I started taking private leassons after playing mando for years (self taught). My teach ROCKS! He listened to me on what I wanted to focus on. I know bunch of chords but had no idea how to "jam" or much of an idea on theory. Last night - THE LIGHT CAME ON!

Lesson 1 - focused on correcting my right hand picking and my left hand position. Also got me started doing pent scales and major scales. Went over 4 major chord positions (CAGE)

Lesson 2 - Explained how to incorporate the pentatonic scales all the way up and down the neck and do it in the key I'm playing.

OH MY GOODNESS! I went home and played until the skin started to leave my fingures. I can't wait to leave work today and spend the entire weekend practicing. Chords and chomps have been fun for a long time - but the ability to solo (lol - i'm still pretty bad) has opened up a new lvl of playing. For the first time - theary's not boring - it really matters! My teacher called it the grammer of music.

So what watershed moments have you guys had with playing?

[JeffS]

They have mandolin teachers in PoT? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif I've been kinda looking for a teacher myself. Not much luck though. I can't really say I've had a watershed moment but every once in a while I'll stumble across something that sounds good and that will motivate me a little more. I think I have bad practice habits and would benefit greatly from a good teacher. In the beginning I just practiced and my goal was to learn tunes. Now I'm starting to do scales and chords more. But I think I really need a teacher, not only to show me but to tell me when I've got it.

[TommyK]

"...#I can't wait to leave work today and spend the entire weekend practicing...."
Intoxicating, Aint' it! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif
You know you got it bad when you suffer withdrawls from not practicing http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Phantoj]

Still waiting... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[siren_20]

My light came on yesterday when I started reading sheet music. I would encourage everyone who has not yet tried doing this to start...I'd been working on it off and on for awhile, but yesterday I buckled down for a couple of hours and all I can say is wow. It actually is starting to make more sense than tabs. Try it...you'll like it! It's not that hard!

[Michael H Geimer]

I recently overhauled my pick stroke, on advice from a seasoned player.

Now I get the 'brush-stroke' analogies, I get the 'fiddle-bow' analogies ... I just plain 'get it' now.

Less is More. Looser is Louder.

That's my most recent epiphany ... the latest of many ... may many more lie in all our futures.

[mandocrucian]

The job of a good teacher is to help you turn on the lights....so you can then see some of the doors (or point them out). But it is still the student that has to walk through that doorway into the next room or hallway. (and even if you have played 30-40 years, there are always new passages and doors in the maze to explore.)

There are some folks who want to say "I did it all on my own!" and somehow feel signing up for lessons or workshops runs counter to that. An instructor is really a catalyst - a substance which starts the chemical reaction, but does not actually become a component of the new improved alloy. #It's like a physical trainer at a gym - they can give you the appropriate workout exercises and show you how to lift properly without hurting your muscles or back, but they can't do the work out for you. I figure, that is a pretty big task (doing the push-ups, crunches, etc.) in itself, so getting some advice about how to "work smarter" doesn't diminish from what is accomplished.

Niles Hokkanen
<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>(and now a message from one of my sponsers.....)

= = = = = = = =

BEGINNER TO INTERMEDIATE MANDOCRUCIAN BOOT CAMP with Niles Hokkanen

November 7-10, 2004
Three days of intensive mandolin instruction with one of the top mandolin teachers in the country! In the "Advanced Beginner/Low Intermediate" camp we will deal with:

*Mapping the neck with doublestops
*Continue to look at more techniques for "Tune Embellishment" (making the tune more "notey" while still retaining the melody)
*Begin Improvisation studies with arpeggios and pentatonic scales
*Introductory playing out of closed positions up the neck.
*Shifting up and down the neck on single strings.
*Hammer-ons, pull-offs and slides for phrasing and ornamentation.
*Basic chording and accompaniment.

It will also be demonstrated that all these ideas are all inter-related and link together. The doublestop mapping links into the position licks, which may likely be pentatonic scale fragments. The left hand sliding may also be used to change positions up or down the neck, etc. etc.

· #Fee includes all materials, tools, instruction, lodging, meals, and other extras.
· #Program starts on Sunday at 4:00 p.m. and concludes on Wednesday by 11:30 a.m. #
· #Lodging on Wednesday evening available at additional cost. #
· Participation limited to 20 people.
· $375.00 for everything.
· Day rate is $295.00 and includes three lunches and Sunday dinner. Additional #meals can be purchased as we go through the program.
· You may send a $100.00 deposit to hold a space. The balance due will be collected upon arrival at the program.
· Early-Bird Rate: if you pay in-full by NOVEMBER 7, 2004, you pay only $345.00 a savings of $30.00.

Lance E. Johnson, Program Director
Northern Virginia 4-H Educational Center (www.ext.vt.edu/resources/4h/northern)
600 4-H Center Drive
Front Royal, Virginia 22630
(540)635-7171
(540)635-6876 (fax)
lajohns4@vt.edu

also scheduled for Nov. 7-10, 2004:
STANDARD MANDOLIN MAKING WORKSHOP with Don Kawalek: The Mandolin Making Workshop will provide each participant with a great opportunity to build his/her own musical instrument. #This program, designed for beginner and advanced craftspersons, will occur over three-and-a-half days. (full details at the 4H site)</span>

[duuuude]

My light came on when I realized all them scary lookin' swing/jazz chords ain't really all that scary after all once you take a good look at 'em. Gotta admit that Niles' little pocket chordbook helped me see alot of it, big resource for the small price.

[Tom C]

My 100wt bulb came on when I started taking lessons from the first day I got the mando. I understand a whole lot of theory and concepts. Unfortunalety it is only burning at 40wts. since I need to apply these better. Not playing music for 35/40s of my life, I easily get lost on tunes that are away from 1,4,5. or have too many chords. Yes I am aware that a single scale (depending on scale)can be played over different chords but on tunes like Ginsing Sullivan that has many chords, I have to work very,very hard in making up a break. It ain't gonna happen playing the tune the first time. I have to sit and analyse everything. I saw a special on TV recently where they interveiwed all these middle aged people who can not read but were in the process of learning. They would look at an easy word like "Dog" and get frustrated as they knew it the day before and now can't recollect it. They have to work 1000X harder than a child. That's how I feel I am with mando sometimes.

[John Flynn]

I think my improvement has been less like a 100W bulb and more like a continual string of 2W bulbs. It's sort of like Christmas lights, I guess! I'll struggle with a something for a while, like crosspicking, or a difficult chord or an odd timing. Then, all of a sudden, it's there and I can just use it without thinking about it anymore. These little improvements often overlap. I may have 2 or 3 of them as works in process at any given time. My biggest single "Ah Ha" was discovering Old-Time Music and OT Jams. I had played in other genres for many years, but nothing got me going like that.

Benignus: Congrats on getting the brush-stroke thing. That is such a great concept, but it is one that the light really has to come on for. Words just can't get it across. If I hadn't gotten up the gumption to go a Mike Compton workshop, I would have no idea what you were talking about.

[Tom C]

Somebody once asked him about that brush-stroke thing and he had no idea what the person was talking about. When he plays these Monroe tunes, and when he stays on those lower strings(G-D), it gives that brush-stroke tone. Especially when he
plays some chromatic runs in it like on Tanyards B part.

[John Flynn]

Yeah, I heard Mike said he didn't know anything about that at a later workshop. But I stand by my story. In the Columbus, Indiana, workshop, he spent a lot of time teaching that technique, and I have about 20 witnesses! To be accurate, though, he did not call it "brush-stroke." What he said was more like, "The pick should pivot up and down, brushing across the strings and remaining in contact with the strings as long as possible, kind of like a fiddle bow." I think the "brush-stroke" term evolved from peoples recounting of the lesson.

[kudzugypsy]

sounds like you have a good teacher. the first thing he did was to address your picking. you cant really get very far without good fundamentals, there are a lot of hot licks to learn and lots of good tunes, but those will not make up for poor pick attack and wild / unneccessary finger movement.

the pentatonics are a great start..BUT...you must learn to hear and play the chord changes too, the big problem that pentatonics have is that 1 scale will work over many chord changes. that is good in a way...gets you playing quick, but it is not very musical to hear chorus after chorus of pentatonic scales (cause they have no resolution or half steps)

my light came on when i realized that the best of the best musicians i hung around had GREAT EARS....so i set out to improve my listening and ear training.....amazing what it will do for your playing.

[Mandodoc]

Light, what light? I didn't see a light.

Still in the dark here. Can't afford an instructor so I try to muddle along, am trying those pentatonic scales now, I hope it leads me somewhere, for now it sort of sounds like I'm playing in Chinese. I love playing so much, wish I had a talent for it. Sure wish I could go to Niles class above, I'll bet some lights would come on there.
jon

[pathfinder]

Quote (jflynnstl):
"I think my improvement has been less like a 100W bulb and more like a continual string of 2W bulbs".

I like Johnny's analogy. #It's more like a long series of small bulbs that suddenly appear in front of you. #One might be about discovering a better picking technique. #The next might be about a better fretting technique. #Another could be a new insight on how to transpose keys. The next one might be how to improvise on a solo "on the fly" at a jam.

But a good teacher can save a lot of trial and error, and minimize those discouraging times when we feel we've "hit the wall" and don't want to be in the same room with a mando. Jamming with other people don't hurt none either.

[AmosMoses]

Quote (jflynnstl):
"I think my improvement has been less like a 100W bulb and more like a continual string of 2W bulbs".

With a 5W bulb every once in awhile. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

Sometimes it seems like I'm not getting anywhere. But then again I realize I'm playing better than I did 6 mos. ago.

[mandodebbie]

I still teaching myself to play without the aid of a teacher. There are few good mandolin instructors in my area. I'm lucky that anyone knows what a mandolin is. My lights are in need of a new curcuit.:(

[acousticphd]

Re: The string of lights analogy,

Yeah, but doesn't it seem too like some of the lights in the string start burning out? Back in the middle somewhere?

To me it seems more like as you progress, you eventually are trying to work 5 or 6 little strings of lights all at once (musical interests/style, practice, play, desire, frustration, etc), and it's a constant job of trying to keep them all burning about the same length so you're not losing ground.

For people who have been playing awhile and have gone through some of the improvement and advancing steps, what helps keep those lights stay on?

[pathfinder]

It depends on the individual and how we each retain our "discoveries" along the way. #Some folks keep a journal. #Others tape themselves periodically to assess whether their getting better. #But mostly, it comes down to lots of practice.

Re-read Mando Johnny's original post. #In part, here's what he said:

"I think my improvement has been less like a 100W bulb and more like a continual string of 2W bulbs. It's sort of like Christmas lights, I guess! I'll struggle with a something for a while, like crosspicking, or a difficult chord or an odd timing. Then, all of a sudden, it's there and I can just use it without thinking about it anymore"

[Zed]

After a year of pretty serious practice and playing, my epiphany was that i need another 10 to even start sounding like i want to sound.

[sailaway]

I think the biggest epiphany was when I bought some mando music books (like the Wayne Fugate series ) and quit just 'playing by ear' to pick out old melodies I knew (like boil the cabbage, crawdad, etc. ) and started getting serious about knowing what the notes were on the fret board both in tab and in musical notation. Then learning how the scales can be used to form chords like in key of D : D- F#- A equals the I chord of D which is D , D- G-B = the IV Chord, (which is G) and so forth for each scale. Getting this fundamental knowledge is very important . Once you know the fundamentals, then you can move on to pentatonics, minor ii chords, etc. , swing, jazz etc. and understand how the music works. The mando instruction books with theory and CDs are fine ways to get better if you don't or can't find a good instructor.

In my humble opinion, musical instructors who try to teach one to play a musical instrument by selling you a $39 DVD or video without any tab are not helping you to become a musician. The school of learning solely by saying ' watch me, listen and and copy what I do on the frets' is doing a great disservice to beginning musicians (but are certainly selling a lot of videos.) This copy - my- tune style might have worked fine in the 1800's before there were good methods of distributing written music, but it certainly is not time-economical today. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Peter Hackman]

As an amateur musician and composer it was deciphering
some of Thelonius Monk's tunes, because of his creative
and iconoclastic way of using, e.g., the II-V(-I)
progression. And the first phrase in Monk's Mood,
first chord fm7, that second chord, how could it possibly
lead to a Cmaj9? After finding out (B flat 7 -5)
I had to explore all possible ways of breaking up and short-cutting the circle of fifths through the use of
flatted fifths;
many mistakes
along the way, many insights, a few songs.

As regards Bluegrass, it was jamming with Bill Emerson
and a few other people (Cliff Waldron, Tom Gray)
on a tarp in the DC suburbs in 1969; hearing,
and feeling, the banjo
directly, not over a PA system, made me realize that
BG has a "drive" all its own, not to be confused
with "swing" but, just as hard to capture in words,
or in my own playing.

[ironscot]

I'd have to say that the light didn't actually come on, so much as having some good hand on the rheostat! I have good and bad days, but fortunately have gotten in touch with a great teacher for me right now. I committed to take extra long lessons weekly, (an hour and a half) and find I'm crawling up the ladder pretty rapidly. I started off reading notation fairly well after years and years off the piano, but find that the tab method we work with is better than sufficient. I still practice the notation with bagpipes, but that's a whole nother story.

It seem that there is a blend between all methods and what you have in you that makes the music come out. Sometimes you can be in the right frame of mind and noodle out a tune that hasn't ever been played, but it's big in your own world. That's what is awesome about music. You can emulate others and practice til your fingers bleed, but it is the extension of the soul that makes it real.

[jasona]

I had *a* light go on for me as a result of playing out at a jam last night. Being with better pickers, listening for chord changes, learning keys, anticipating how a song you've never played before might go (and watching the better picker's chords when you get lost!) all really help me. I need to egt all sides of my brain involved, and TablEdit, net chat, books, lessons and jams all play an important, but distinct, part for me.

[pickinpox]

I think my improvement has been less like a 100W bulb and more like a continual string of 2W bulbs. It's sort of like Christmas lights

Problem for me is they twinkle #http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

My playing suddenly improved when I started listening more carefully to the fills and licks (notes between the phrases) instead of just the melody. Incorporating these really spice up the music and make my anemic solos sound better.

[straight-a]

The thing that has always helped me with any instrument is being around other pickers. I learn best by watching. As far as mandolin, Greg H. of the Cafe & member of the Nu Blu Band has helped me the most of anyone. I love to watch him play. He also used to teach guitar so he understands how to explain things. He's really opened up the various patterns on the fretboard for me.

[GTison]

I took lessons and learned maybe 2 dozen tunes written out in tab ( iallreadyplayedguitar ). I moved and didn't have my teacher any more. (just as well) I needed to develop a style. I consioiusly picked the Monroe style. It was what I had heard and liked most and seemed the most reachable at the time. I struggle with that for a couple of years. Then Tammy Sullivan's 1st husband J.R. told me I should listen to the NBB and their mandolin player. Compton. The LIGHT CAME ON WHEN I learned how he played "my native home" This for me was a real turning point in my mandolin playing. I don''t know if I was just ripe to learn something or if it was just a key position to learn but that did it for me. I don't know theory though many times i wish I did.

[Blueglass]

a big huge spot light size bulb came on for me when after five years of playing a fiddler joined our band. that is just what I needed in my mandolin life
a fiddler

[reindoggy]

Some days my bulb dims due to an energy shortage. Sometimes it flickers and I have to go back and tighten it. Occasionally, I accidently stick my finger in the socket and have an epiphany! Yowee! That's how to do her!

Switching to another instrument seems to "re-wire" me. By trial and error, I have learned to apply what I can do on violin to the guitar, to the octave mando, to the mando and back to the violin. I learn new things from each. Learning three note Django chords on guitar, opened up the octave mando to me, which has started to open my eyes to theory and has improved my ability to sight-read on mandolin and violin.

Two steps forward and one step back....ya know?