X-braced vs. Tone bars

[bud]

Looking for input on the tonal differences between an x-braced mandolin and one with tone bars. All other things staying the same, including builder. Anyone done any comparisons? Thanks.

Bud

[pickinNgrinnin]

This is a good resource. Some big names weighing in on this topic. Check here (http://www.folkofthewood.com/page2168.htm)

[mmukav]

pickinNgrinnin--WOW-thanks for the great link--Charlie's response was pretty interesting. I've been curious about the difference also and that was a great resource. Looking to get a new mando and have been trying to find info on the x-braced vs. tone-bar thing. That helped a lot. Mike http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Jeroen]

Oof. Mr Derrington has a rather outspoken opinion there. There must be great builders and players disagreeing.
I love the fat highs and roaring lows on my x braced Flatbush V4. I think an agressive "pop" on the mids is characteristic for good x braced instruments. My instrument may indeed be on the darker side of the spectrum, but I would rather call it an "alto" sound than "muddy", and I love it. What I like about better parallel braced mandolins is a bell like sound up on the neck. I would like to read more comments of players and builders on the subject. Someone keep this thread alive please?

[M. Montgomery]

I built two A models, one with tone bars one with X braces. The biggest difference to me was the projection. #An X braced mandolin will project better than a tone bar mandolin. In addition there are many different ways to do X bracing. I do not think X bracing is weaker if done the right way.

[sunburst]

I do not think X bracing is weaker if done the right way.
Does anyone know if an X braced top can be as strong an a tone bar top and be roughly the same mass?
In other words, it seems to me that it would require heavier construction to have the same strength and resistance to the constant strain of string tension with an X as opposed to tone bars. Has anybody wieghed the two types of tops?

[Michael Lewis]

Why should an X braced top be weaker than one with tone bars? If the intersection joint is properly reinforced the X should be as strong I would think.

[M. Montgomery]

Thats the key, reinforcing the joint. I intersect the braces from 1-1/4 to 2 inches in front of the bridge, cut one brace completely in two, and glue a 1/8" thick by 1/2" long strip over the brace that has been cut. The deepest part of the braces are under the bridge. Also,the strength of a brace can be increased by increasing the depth and reducing the width without changing the mass.

[acousticphd]

Is it usually the case though, that "all things otherwise being equal, including the builder" holds true? Are the '80-'90s Flatirons, some of which are tone braced and others X-braced, identical except for the bracing? I don't know, just curious. Does a builder shape the top any differently depending on the bracing pattern to be used?

My comparison is maybe not valid because it is one where the builder may have favored different bracing during different periods of their career. I have an older Old Wave A-style fhole mando with X-braced. The newer ones have tonebars, and the several I've heard are huge-sounding for A-style mandolins. I don't know whether the bracing accounts for it, but I would say mine has a sound more intermediate between tonebar and ovalhole sound - good clarity, clear and sweet tone, good volume, very versatile, but without that desirable bluegrass "chunk" . Is that consistent with bracing, or just invariable differences between instruments?

[markdavenport]

how would the phoenix mandolins
fit in?? I believe Rolfe's bracing
is modified??

[SternART]

Lawrence Smart uses a version of X bracing, worked great on my 2 point.....complex & rich tone.

[peteymando]

I was thinking about buying a Summit mandolin off the classifieds and called Paul Schnieder the builder of these mandolins.I asked him about the bracing and he wanted the ser.no.He told me tops made of Sitka are harder and he uses tone bar bracing and on Engleman,a softer wood,he uses x bracing.He can tell bracing by the ser.no.records.Not sure if this means anything about sound and bracing but now you know! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif