Gypsy Jazz Scales

[fishdawg40]

...or better yet Django scales :cool:.

I'm working with Dix Bruce's How to Play Gyspy Swing, the tune is After You've Gone in the key of C. I'm trying to solo over changes and having difficulty, as expected. However, I was wondering how I would go about soloing. In my quest for this information I've seen diminished scales and minor arpeggios mentioned. So I'm working w/them. Am I correct here? Some things are sounding good, some aren't.


Most central to my question is there a shortcut to understanding how to solo over jazz tunes? I know, heavy question. Kind of like playing G scale notes or the pentatonic scale if you're playing I-IV-V in the key of G.

Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

[Tele295]

It's more about arpeggios and the ornaments than scales. I find, scale-wise, that I use the chromatic scale mixed in with arpeggios more than any exotic gypsy-minor scales. Maybe the diminshed scale, too, over the V chord, although that's more of an arpeggio too

[Will Patton]

After You've Gone is primarily a major tune - for the minor key Gypsy tunes, the Harmonic minor scale usually fits. As mentioned, the diminished scale or arpeggio works well with the V chord, as well as a chord functioning as a V chord within the progression. As Tele mentioned, it's often the ornaments that give a solo that 'gypsy' feel - harder to do on a mandolin as they are guitaristic...
wp

[Don Stiernberg]

Fishdawg:

I wrote a sample solo line for After You've Gone for Mandolin Magazine. Check their website, I think it's downloadable. Notes and TAB.My regular jazz column picks apart tunes in that style.

As far as "the heavy question", look for tonalities, as identified by ii-V-I(major) or iim7b5-V7alt-i(minor) progressions..Dm7-G7-C for example is ii-V7-I in C and can therefore be handled with tones from the C scale. In the part of After You've Gone where the vocal says "someday, when you are lonely.." you're in Dm so Dminor tones will work. Tunes like After You've Gone that have many chords can often be reduced to a manageable amount of tonalities, also called key centers.

Devices for soloing over jazz progressions? There are tons. Shortcuts? Not so much.But it's shouldn't be as daunting as it might seem. You just need to know the tune's progression and how it moves, and have rows of tones to choose from for each tonality. Then you can mess with those basics, as Django did when using diminished chords in the dominant(V7) position.

Use all the tones--go through a major scale, playing the notes over a recording(or live player)of the tonality you're working with. Ask yourself what feeling each interval has. For instance, arpeggio tones(1,3,5) sound safe or homey mostly. The 6th sounds swingy, the 9th interesting. Now go back and catalog all the altered intervals as well--b5,#5,b9,#9, etc..You're building vocabulary as you do this, finding out just what each interval suggests in the context of the chord sound.

While focusing on note choices for a tonality or tune, it's good to play all eighth notes, flowing and swinging. In real life your solo will have starts and stops, holes, pauses, etc--but in practice, forcing yourself to supply the next note in rhythm is a good vocabulary builder as well. If eighths are too hard, go with quarters. Soon enough melodies are coming out of your mandolin.

I hope it's OK to mention also that After You've Gone is one of the tunes on my latest CD "Swing 220" along with 13 other swing jam faves. I don't think of it as Gypsy Jazz, but some of my best attempts at answering the questions you pose might be found there in the notes. The notes played, not the liner notes...

Thanks for your patience, good luck, and straight ahead with your pursuit of the good notes.

[Pete Martin]

(Here goes) One option is to play a scale the current chord is constructed from. You have to know your Jazz theory for this! There are many scale choices for each chord, especially dominant seventh.


I am going to only use the most basic scale choices (a good place to start) for After You’ve Gone in the key of C.


CHORD - SCALE
F6 - C Major Scale = C D E F G A B
Fm6 - F Melodic Minor = F G Ab Bb C D E
C6 - C Major Scale = C D E F G A B
A7 - D major scale = D E F# G A B C#
D7 - G major scale = G A B C D E F#
G7 - C major scale = C D E F G A B
C6 - see previous C6
F6 -
Fm6 -
C6 -
A7 -
Dm7 - C major scale = C D E F G A B
A7 -
Dm7 -
Fm6 -
E7 - A major scale = A B C# D E F# G#
Am7 - C Major Scale = C D E F G A B
Adim - A diminished scale = A B C D Eb F Gb Ab
C6 -
Am7 -
Dm7 -
G7 -
C6 -
C7 - F Major Scale = F G A Bb C D E


For a dominant seventh chord, there are any number of scale possibilities. Django often played a diminished scale one half step up from the root, thus a Bb diminished scale on an A7 chord.

For a major chord (such as C6 or CMaj7), one can substitute a minor seventh arpeggio on the 6th degree of the scale (for a C6 chord, play an Am7 arpeggio) or a a minor seventh arpeggio on the 3rd degree of the scale (for a C6 chord, play an Am7 arpeggio).

I do not consider After You’ve Gone to an easy tune for improvising! The key center, thus the scales for improvising, change a LOT, plus this is often played up tempo. If you are new to Jazz improvising, you may want to start with something easier, with fewer key centers and medium tempo (tunes like Honeysuckle Rose, Mack the Knife, etc.). Best of luck!

[fishdawg40]

Thanks for all the great responses! Now I need to really think about them and try to apply that to music. Patience is the key.... Yes Don, that is fine you mentioned your cd, I might just have to pick that up!

[i-vibe]

For instance, arpeggio tones(1,3,5) sound safe or homey mostly. The 6th sounds swingy, the 9th interesting.

yep...that's a good reason to to use relative major or relative minor substitutions.

let's say the music calls for a Dm...playing an FMaj arp over a Dm chord gives you F A C E .....the E note being the 9th of that Dm chord.

doing just the opposite if the music calls for an FMaj and you play IT's relative minor substitution Dm.... D F A C...well, that "D" note is the 6th of FMaj.

when you get more comfortable w this idea you can substitute many different chords for one another to yield some hip colors.