My Refinish is Done

[Yonkle]

Well I got her done today. I stripped my #2 Mandolin down to bare wood and took a little wood off the front and back, I think I had it a hair thick, and I had a very heavy lacquer coat on this mandolin.
Anyway after sanding her down I "re-stained" it from Red to Amber and Tabbaco. Then made my varnish from shallac flakes and alcohol. I hand rubbed it on until I had enough coats to flat sand it, then for the last few days I have been rubbing her out with just spirits and a drop of olive oil....what a work out!! I now can see why this cost a lot to have done, got to be careful not to drop sweat from your brow onto your mando, and you do work up a sweat. It is amazing how the scratches work their way out with a lot of elbow grease and you can see it happening.
After I got the Polish done I did a total "re-fret" too, with 0.78 banjo wire, then added a abbreviated pickguard. Total time took me 2 weeks working every night after work and on my days off. Now I am waiting a couple of weeks for the varnish to harden before stringing her up, don't want the bridge to dig into the new look! Curious to se how it sounds and plays with the new finish and new frets and guard! Shallac hand rubbed is a lot harder to do than lacquer, I can see why lacquer is used a lot, it is a lot easier to apply and make look good, but for my first attemp at Spirit Varnish I am very pleased with the results! (Here are some before and after shots) JD

[Yonkle]

The RED back, you can see the heavy lacquer on the neck.

[Yonkle]

The new Back Close up!

[Yonkle]

Front

[Yonkle]

full shot of back (last photo)

[Bill Snyder]

I have used tinted shellac to finish the top of a mandolin. I liked using it and plan on using it again. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but spirit varnish is not just dissolved shellac. It has additional additives doesn't it?
I am not trying to be horsey, just trying to learn.

Yonkle the new finish looks very nice. This mando and the other two you have posted all look like you took your time to get them right.

[WireBoy]

WOW ! # Extreme Makeover for Mandolin. #That is really fabulous. # Please post further with your tone observations after stringing her up. #And post a few more pics. #that burst on the back really looks great as does the front!

Any chance of posting a sound clip? #i've often wondered how these Kit Mandos turn out. #your # 2 is a stewmac if i remember correctly. #

Having worked with the Stew Mac and Siminof kits, how would one shape a neck for 1 3/16 at the nut?. #does one order a neck that wide to start with? Or is the neck stock thick enough to shape down to one's own specs?

[Yonkle]

Not sure if the term Spirit Varnish has additives. I know you can do a oil finish with a varnish top coat. There arew a lot of things to learn about the French Polish techinque, there is no polish just a techinque that requires a lot of polishing. I just used Pure Anhydrous Denatured Alcohol and Blond Shallac flakes (2 lb. Cut)
The question in regard to a 1 3/16 neck on a stewmac there is room if you want it that wide. JD

[HoGo]

Spirit varnish is generally a resin dissolved in solvent which is in most cases alcohol. Pure shellac is the simplest spirit varnish. You can add mastic sandarac, copal or many other resins or some oils (rosemary, lavender etc.) to change its properties, especially when it is brushed.

BTW, Nice work Yonkle.

[John Bertotti]

Ok where would one (I) find information on additives? What, how much, reasons for, etc...
That looks great. I really never cared for the plastic look. That is a very nice finish you've done there. John http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[8ch(pl)]

That is a lovely looking instrument. Will it become No. 1?

[Lane Pryce]

JD it doesn't even look like the same instrument. 500% improvement. I hope it has the sound you are looking for!! Lp

[Chris Baird]

Nice job Yonkle! Be sure to let us know how the tone changes. I guess since you took wood off it will be hard to know how the new finish affected it.

[mandoJeremy]

That does look quite nice.

[Yonkle]

Here is a full view of the back. PS I will let you know the tone difference later on. JD

[mandoJeremy]

That is beautiful JD! I love the color and that is some nice figure.

[ShaneJ]

Great job! That's beautiful.

[HoGo]

Reesaber, google for 'violin varnish' or 'violin varnish supplies' and you'll find tons of info. The simplest book about finishing is Violin varnishes by Hammerl&Hammerl. Lot of useful info about almost all possible additives to oil or spirit varnish. You can possibly find it in the library or through interlibrary loan.
Adrian.

[Scotti Adams]

..there are some very talented people here....that make over is really nice...great pay off for the blood, sweat and tears huh?

[Stanley Cox]

Yonkle, Fine work on the refinishing. What are the new thicknesses of the top and back? Which kit mandolin is this?
Good work, Stanley http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[Yonkle]

this one was a StewMAc kit. Built 2 years ago. The thickness is whatever was on the plans (cant remember) Since I sanded all the lacquer and stain off, I just sanded the front and back a little thinner, Did'nt measure, just took a little off. I can tell by the vibration from the back while playing it was too thick, and just removing the lacquer probably helped too, I had the lacquer way too thick.
Being a rookie when I built this, I figured the more lacquer the better protection for years later, did'nt think at the time about the thick lacquer retatding the sound. Now I go as thin as possible. Live and learn. JD

[Yellowmandolin]

That looks very good. #Exelent refinishing job. #It looks so much better then before, and it wasn't bad to start with. #You did a great job and I hope the sound imporves proportionally to all you did to it. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[grandmainger]

Talk about coming to life! Stunning work! I love it http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[Yonkle]

Well, I got her strung up today. Took awhile to get the set-up done, I had a couple high frets and a E String secondary tone. I found the culprits and got it playing smooth. It sounds different for sure right off the bat. It has a more mellow wooden tone, and I think a little less volume. Over all for the first day I like the sound.
As far as the banjo (0.78) frets go..... I love them, easy to play and I use a lot less presure, and the pickguard..... I love it. I am going to put one on my #3 mandolin. In fact after I see how all this re-do works out I may just re-do my #3 mandolin with a Guard and big frets, and a french polish too.>>>> PS UPDATE: 2 weeks later. the tone is excellent!! BIG Improvement. Now that I got all the buggs worked out and have been playing it a couple weeks it has a nice wooden tone where as before it was tinny, now I like it better than my last one, so next job will be re-doing #3. Ive built 3 mandolins trying to get this tone, and found all along I just had the top too thick and way too much lacquer, this re-do taught me a lot, I quit playing this mandolin just played #3 Now I can't put #2 down. JD

[dan@kins]

WOW!

The change is remarkable... Very attractive finish! By the way, I guess this isn't something for the faint of heart.

Did you disassemble your mandolin for the refinish?

Is something I might try on my own or am I crazy to think I could do this?

I have a two point with finish issues that would look so nice with a french polish. . . not to mention I'm sure it would sound wonderful!!!

Are there places on the web where I can read up on this technique?

regards,
Dan

[Yonkle]

Dan Thanks: I am now re-doing my #3 mandolin. It's not hard and you do not disassemble it, just remove all the hardware, strip it down, then sand sand sand and sand some more, re-stain, then do the finish. Frets.com has some info on Polishing, as there are a few sites out there that discuss this. JD

[Flowerpot]

Great job, Yonkle. Well worth the effort. It looks wonderful. I'm in the process of staining my #1, and plan to do a spirit varnish (shellac) undercoat (for good adhesion) with an oil varnish on top. If I'm lucky, it will come out half as good as yours.

[dan@kins]

Yonkle.

I did not make my mandolin. I have not built any musical instruments. The closest I've some to wood working was intro level shop class in high school.

I have a two point mandolin and it has very heavy varnish. the wodds used are superb! Even through the thick finsih it has a nice loud chop and a growly throaty sound. Its a very good rig for bluegrass.

I would love to have a nice thin french polish on it.

I have a Gibson F9, so I won't be without a mandlin to pick on. That means I can take my time and get it right.

I'm familiar with Frets.com. . . I'll start reading up on it.

If I embark on this endeavor, will you 'hold my hand' along the way. Perhaps I can ask you questions, get help with resources, etc. . ?

Do you think it would be foolish for someone as novice as I am to embark on this? You say its easy, but finishes and wood work might be your bag.

I will say this, I've done a lot of process oriented work inthe past. I've been a potter, don't throw any more but I've worked with chemicals and metals and high heat, etc. . . Also I've very meticulous and like to get things 'right', you not settling for less and getting them the way I want them.

I value your opinion because of the outstanding resutls you're obviously getting here!

Do you think it would be better for me to find a shop that does refinish work?

Lots of questions from the forum noob huh?

regards,
Dan

[Yonkle]

I guess you would know more than I how well you can do. If your confidence level is low maybe you should look into having it done,but on the other hand if you mess things up you can still re-do it again, so what do you have to lose.
Yes feel free to ask questions if you do it yourself. jd

[krishna]

Yonkle, Man that looks GREAT. Bevieve me on this ok? It looks as good as my Grand Artist! It's the combo of that great wood and your TLC...Kerry...PS I'm begining to think I was right about you .You DO rock!

[Yonkle]

By the way, I have been re-finishing my #3 too. Been on it 2 weeks, had a few set backs, but I got it stained. re-freted and sealed with shallac. should have it done in a week or so, I will post a few pics when done. working with shallac is a pain after working with lacquer, but the end result is worth the elbow grease. JD

[Dave Cohen]

A couple of questions above were not answered, so here are some references.

(1) George Manno ("Player of Eight") had an article on the "1704 varnish recipe", or something to that effect, now found in The Big Red Book of American Lutherie, Vol. I (Guild of American Luthiers).

(2) "On the Acoustical Properties of Violin Varnish", Martin Schleske, CAS Journal, Vol. 3, No. 6 (Series II), pp. 27-43, November, 1998.

[Nolan]

Yonkle - this line you wrote "I figured the more lacquer the better protection for years later"
Just had me rolling in my cube here at work! #
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif
I'd bet lot of builders think that early on like you said... I know I did! (and I'm not even a builder!)

Nice work seriously though, I wish I was that talented!

[dan@kins]

Thank you Dave Cohen.

respectfully,
Dan Atkins

[Yonkle]

Yeah Nolan, I did'nt want it to look like Bill Monroe's in 20-30 years, so I did about 20 coats of lacquer. Later when striping the lacquer off is when I realized just how thick I had it. Stupid me!
I think if an atomic blast went off here the whole town would be gone.....The only thing standing..... my mandolin!
Anyway got #3 buffed out and a guard put on, I'll be stringing her up in a week or so...Pics to come. Look good (if I do say so myself)

[Yonkle]

Well #3 is done, giving her about 10 day to cure before stringing her up. Did banjo frets, a pickguard (from Steve @ Cumberland) and re=stain and French polish, as I did with #2. The stain is less bright than before a lot less orange. I thought it looked good before, no problem there just wanted F.P. and not lacquer. I will give you a sound update in a few weeks. Here are some before and after shots, this one is not as drastic as #2, less orange, more amber and a darker tabacco brown, and more of a pronounced sunburst on the front. Front is Adirondak Red Spruce and rear is a 1 piece (low figure) maple back. I think I like the flame look better. JD
HERE IS BEFORE.....

[Yonkle]

After...Front, low light overcast.

[Yonkle]

BACK

[Yonkle]

more

[Yonkle]

more again

[Yonkle]

Last shot

[Stanley Cox]

Looks great Yonkle,
Now you can get back to building.
Stanley

[dan@kins]

Thanks for the pics Yonkle. I've been enjoying them.

regards,
Dan

[Scotti Adams]

Looks real nice JD...you should be proud.

[Yonkle]

This is my last set of pics to this post.
I got #3 strung up today, took a while to get it set up, but shes up and playing with her new finish. It's too early to tell if the tone is much different than lacquer, however it is different, but with new strings and new finish......you know!
Anyway comparing it to #2 it is a lot louder than 2 and brighter, but I have Ti's on 2 and Sam Bush Monels on #3
With the new frets and pickguard, it almost feels like a clone of #2 just sounds different, and the neck is a bit wider. Here are a few photos of the 2 re=finished mandolins. Flash went off, so they look a bit bright, but they almost look like clones too, #3 has the 1 piece back, and the sunburst is a bit more pronounced. Tool me about 5 weeks to re-do the two, now back to picking! JD

[Yonkle]

full front

[Yonkle]

backs

[Luthier Vandross]

Beautiful

http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

M

[Antlurz]

Great job!~ Maybe you can get a spot on a TV Extreme Makeover show! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif Whole nuther instrument!

Ron