Ibanez 529 'Antique Violin Finish'... Laquer or Varnish?

[Rik]

I'm wondering if the Ibanez Model 529 which is described as having an 'Antique violin finish' is a Laquer finish that is made to look like a vintage finish, or a Varnish finish?

http://ibanezmandolin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/models-529.jpg

Has anyone got one?

[f5loar]

Is this like a new mandolin being made or a vintage 70's model?
Anyway to me the ad means it has a violin antique color on the finish.
It would be like Gibson saying the F5 has a Cermona finish. It's likely just regular thickly applied Ibanez lacquer.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote from the Ibanez Mandolin site - " The striking hand-rubbed Antique Violin finish was......". According to the site,the 529 model was a Jazz style instrument with a 'lump scroll' (as per pic.). I can only think that a 'hand rubbed finish' would be varnish & not laquer,
Ivan
ibanezmandolin.com/ibanez-mandolin-models/model-529-ibanez-mandolin/

[Rik]

Is this like a new mandolin being made or a vintage 70's model?
Anyway to me the ad means it has a violin antique color on the finish.
It would be like Gibson saying the F5 has a Cermona finish. It's likely just regular thickly applied Ibanez lacquer.

It's a rare top-of-the-range model Ibanez made from 1980-84 (?). From what I gather, they dropped the Gibson F5 design copies following litigation, and decided to design their own shape mandolins...this is one of those. The Model 528 looks the same as a 529 but definatly has a laquer finish.they made the 529 in 2 finishes; a reddish antique violin finish and an brown antique violin finish. If the finish is varnish, it's a really low priced high-end instrument that not many people play.

[fatt-dad]

This is the Ibanez clone of "lumpy" a Gibson mandolin with a pseudo scroll. I owned one and it was too thickly carved and sounded thin, really thin. Vinish too thick too (where's my English teacher?).

Interesting history on these, but not a very inspiring instrument, from my limited experience. I returned the one I owned promptly!

f-d

[Desert Rose]

Ive been away from the cafe for a long time, sorry for those who sent messages months ago and I never answered. I just saw them

Regarding the Ibanez mandolins. As Ive explained many times they were ALL made by Fujigen, where I worked as an r and d engineer for eleven years. I know Mr Kosakabe personally and I work with the master finisher from those days daily.

Fujigen NEVER ever in any lifetime did anything in varnish. Remember this was seventys and eightys Japan. LOOK was all that mattered. A half hearted attempt at a violin color by electric guitar makers and viola... distressed violin finish

When Ive asked this question before the answer was always that ALL finishes were urethane... at best. The former Fujigen master finisher who did all the mandolins now has his shop above our workshop and Ill reconfirm on Monday. But even thinking lacquer is LONG stretch

Scott

[Ray(T)]

But it must be true - it says so on the internet !!!!!!!! - here http://ibanezmandolin.com/ibanez-mandolin-models/model-529-ibanez-mandolin/

I have a 524, by the way, and that's definitely not varnish.

[Ivan Kelsall]

I suppose that the 'hand rubbed' part of the finishing process could either refer to the colour under the laquer or the final polishing process. Quote from Scott - " But even thinking lacquer is LONG stretch " - Scott, don't you regard eurethane as a lacquer ?. Please forgive my ignorance but i've always thought of urethane / polyeurethane as a type of 'lacquer',but maybe 'lacquer' has become a loose term for other types of finish ?,
Ivan:confused:

[Mike Bunting]

I suppose that the 'hand rubbed' part of the finishing process could either refer to the colour under the laquer or the final polishing process. Quote from Scott - " But even thinking lacquer is LONG stretch " - Scott, don't you regard eurethane as a lacquer ?. Please forgive my ignorance but i've always thought of urethane / polyeurethane as a type of 'lacquer',but maybe 'lacquer' has become a loose term for other types of finish ?,
Ivan:confused:
That website only says handrubbed antique violin finish so I would assume that it is just hype. Here's a page on lacquer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacquer

[Desert Rose]

Ivan

Absolutely NOT

Instrument finishes can be grouped loosely into the following DISTINCT familys

Shellac and varnish ( spirit and oil)

Lacquer ( nitrocellulose and acrylic)

Polyurethane ( catylized)

Polyester ( catylized)

All have completely different chemistry, application guidelines, wear characteristics and much more

Regarding the hand rubbed , Im sure they are hoping to stretch your immagination, its most likely the wet dry paper used during leveling of the finish coats

Again get the image of a little bearded man whittling away on ancient wood out of your mind. Fujigen was the king of the Japanese mass producers. We made 15,000 instruments a month EVERY month. No place for bearded little old men, varnish or tap tuning. The object was to make money and keep people working just like any mass produced instrument factory When problems happen you dont throw it away you reach for the putty and extra clamps

Scott

[Dan Cole]

I ordered my 524 with antique violin finish. I always thought is was just a color choice like the sunburst, cherry wine, etc. After 6 months of waiting it showed up. Unlike those that have the cherry wine finish and the model number 524CW, mine just says 524. I think it is a regular 524 after all the wait.

I still have it and flipped a lot of Big Macs and Quarter Pounders for it at the age of 16 to pay the 500 odd dollars it cost.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Many thanks for ironing that out Scott,& thanks for the 'lacquer link' Mike. The 'hand rubbed Violin finish' i agree,is to give the impression of techniques more applicable to
high quality 'status' instruments,but as long as it keeps the water out.....,
Ivan

[Desert Rose]

Update

Ok I went upstairs today and discussed this point with one of the guys in charge of doing the finish work on the Ibanez and Bluebell mandolins back in the old days

He stopped for a second and we walked over to a rack of misc instrument parts, electric guitar bodys and necks and what was there three NOS Bluebell mandolins in finish process, sealer coats done and needing wet sanding before the final coats. These had been sitting there over fifteen years closer to twenty. Seems Fujigen abandoned them two decades ago.

He grabbed one and some wet sandpaper and proceeded to sand a spot and look, smell, feel and observe

He looked up and said no doubt

Urethane

He also confirmed that Fujigen had never had a can of shellac or varnish in the shop ever, and lacquer was unheard of as well

Scott

[Ivan Kelsall]

Well,that sorted that out !. What a shame that the Mandolins have been sitting there un-finished for such a long time though.Isn't it worth the trouble to finish them off & sell them ?,
Ivan:confused:

[f5loar]

I saw tonight on the Ronnie Reno show Carl Jackson playing an Ibanez that looked cheaper then this one. Did they make 2 solid scroll models? This one looked more like the Gibson lump scoll but the neck was like this 529. And IMO even in Carl's hands it sounded "cheap".