Questions from a noobie

[TrickyTerp]

Hi all, my name is Ric (from Maryland). I've been considering for a while now wanting to play a stringed instrument (mostly focusing on Celtic music). I can read music (played sax for many years). After browsing and listening to many many videos and sites, I came to really enjoy the sounds of the irish bouzouki. So without boring you further, here are some of my concerns/questions:

A #1 concern - I'm lefthanded and no matter how I try, when I pick up a friends guitar it just does not feel right as a right hander. His instructor many moons ago forced him to play righthanded although he's also a lefty. I've read it's not as easy as to simply reverse the strings on a bouzouki.

I have no training on stringed instruments. Would it be more advantageous to learn guitar first or can I skip that and go straight to a zouk?

Which to buy? I must admit, I love the sound and style of the P.W. Crump B-III. Obviously being a fresh starter, that's significant investment. What would you suggest to get started on, that can be modified for a lefty?

Lessons. I've been searching the greater DC area, and I think I may have found one person, but I am open to other options including e-lessons, etc. Any recommendations would super.

Those 3 would be my main concerns with getting started. Especially the lefty thing. If I'm going to commit to this, I want to do it the right way from the very start. Any other advice would be great as well!

Thanks for reading!

R

[Mandobart]

Hi and welcome Ric. I've never played a 'zouk, but I enjoy octave mando and mandocello (plus a few other stringed things). I'm also lefthanded, but have played all instruments right-handed. I really recommend learning "right"; it will be a lot easier to try and buy instruments as time goes on. It will be a lot easier to learn RH from a RH teacher, too. If you try to learn from tab (probably not necessary, but reading music on a brass or woodwind instrument really doesn't translate to knowing where to put your fingers on a stringed instrument) you will have to translate the tab to match a LH stringing, or you could break all the norms and play a RH inistrument upside down, in which case you'll likely be completely on your own. Do you play sax left handed? Does anyone? I'll bet you can play 'zouk RH, too.

I believe learning basic guitar chords is a huge advantage when in jams. As a guitarist of many years, it really helps me follow on an unfamiliar song. Its like being bilingual. However, I don't think it is necessary to learn or be proficient on guitar before taking up another stringed instrument.

I've heard very positive things here about Trinity College (Saga) instruments. Reviews show them to be considered good instruments to learn on, without spending a bunch.

Don't know anything about D.C.; I'm in the other Washington ~2500 miles away.

[junglejem]

I'm also a lefty. Been playing guitar since the Beatles hit the Ed Sullivan show. I have always played left-handed, at first simply turning right-handed instruments over and re-stringing them until I knew enough to realize that the intonation will never work without a lefty bridge/saddles. Electric guitars are easily flopped upside-down (Jimi Hendrix), but acoustic instruments are not so easy.

Over the years I've accumulated a pretty nice collection of left-hand instruments, and their relative rarity makes them that much more attractive (to me). I am currently awaiting the arrival of a Richard Beard 5 course Bouzouki/Cittern. Every builder I contacted indicated it would be no problem building a lefty instrument. Crumps look really nice, but there are a few builders that can build you a lefty Bouzouki for less. (Beard, Peterson, the New Zealand/Australian guys-because the exchange rate is good). I looked at Trinity College, especially their Pro line, but they absolutely will not do a lefty, and I got mixed stories from folks regarding a left hand conversion. Elderly Instruments seemed confident they could do it without a hitch.

All that being said, I've often said if I had it to do over I would have learned right-handed, because it seems you might be equally inept with either hand when you first pick up an instrument. And undoubtedly it is more convenient and less expensive to play right handed. I recently read somewhere, however, that one should learn whichever way feels more natural to them. You say it just doesn't feel right when you pick up a right hand guitar. You really should find a left hand guitar and see if it feels more natural. It could be the physical aspects of an acoustic stringed instrument just feel weird compared to sax, and a lefty might feel just as strange.

I've never felt hamstrung by having to do a mental conversion with chord books, but tab takes a little getting used to. It probably is a little slower. Sitting across from a right hand teacher, though, has always seemed natural- like looking into a mirror. If you are already a musician, I would not worry too much about the logistics of learning left-handed versus right-handed. I would go with whatever feels natural from the start.

[Padre]

on session I've met a left handed guy playing a tenor banjo set up for a right hand person
he just played it up side down.
he said that he had to learn to play it like that as he's working on banjos - set up, repairs
and that just make it easier for everybody.
but if you don't want to play it like that when you'll get yourself a zouk
you can give it to luthier for a left hand set up - mostly to change the slots on a bridge and a nut
any way if you'll get yourself a starter instrument, it's better to give it to someone for a proper set up
it will save you a lot of strugling with the action and sound.

[JeffD]

If you want to learn bouzouki, then learn bouzouki. Learning guitar first won't do much for you that you won't get working on bouzouki. If you already played guitar that would of course be an advantage, but as long as its all new, might as well go right at what you want.

Good poing about learning guitar chords. Not to play, but to able identify visually from looking at the guitarist's hand. I have spent many years cheating the chords off a guitar player, of which one is usually present in any jam group.

As long as you are starting out, learn on a right handed instrument. Its all gonna be awkard at first anyway, might as well get used to a righty instrument. It will save you tons of money in the future.

[TrickyTerp]

Thanks for the ideas gang. When I say holding a guitar "doesn't feel right" it really is that - the concept of strumming with my RH seems "clumsy", and fingering with the doesn't feel comfortable. However, holding it as a lefty, both hands feel right for what they should be doing. I dunno, maybe I'm stubborn, but like being a lefty and want to take that road less traveled (even if will be more difficult and costly).

I had been given advice also to look into the OM to start rather than the zouk. Does anyone see an advantage in this (the only thing I could think of would be finding mandolin lessons easier than zouk, as well as finding an instrument that could be setup LH).

I had been looking at the TC OM, but junglejem's catch about TC not doing lefty has left me thinking twice. I've also looked at Johnson and Gold Tone as well.

Thanks again for your insight! I can't wait to get started!

[man dough nollij]

I had a TC OM that I really liked a lot. In your situation, I think I would look for a good, used TC 'zouk and have it set up for LH. All that's involved is a LH nut and LH bridge compensation. I'm neither a lefty, nor a zouk player, but I don't like the idea of playing a RH instrument upside down. You'd have develop a whole new picking technique to do drones "up" (if that makes any sense...).

[Eddie Sheehy]

Any RH instrument with a symmetrical shape becomes a LH with a Nut and Saddle change. I would recommend a medium instrument that would hold its value should you decide to trade up or sell it. Peterson, Weber, Flatiron, Gypsy come to mind - usually can be found around $1K - sometimes less.

[EdHanrahan]

Maybe a bit whacky, but I've seen several lefty guitarists that just flip the thing upside-down, and play with the bass strings toward the floor & the trebles toward the ceiling. That would seem even easier with only four (pairs of) strings to worry about.

One of the unexpected pleasures of playing is being able to pick up any instrument and give it a try because it's so educational: helps to develop your taste in sound, feel, and, ultimately, technique. I'd really hate to be cut off from that. (And sometimes, it's really good to pick up one with a pricetag WAY bigger than yours and decide, "Eh, no big deal!)

[TrickyTerp]

I was ready to settle for a TC OM. I did some looking around and it seemed that Elderly was a quality shop from comments I have seen. I spoke with their repair shop about converting to LH and the costs bump the $550 original price to over $800 (including a handmade bridge).

Assuming this is what I'm faced with, a couple hundred more puts me into a price space of some independent luthiers where a LH setup may be less of an issue. Is this a valid assumption?

[epicentre]

Any RH instrument with a symmetrical shape becomes a LH with a Nut and Saddle change. I would recommend a medium instrument that would hold its value should you decide to trade up or sell it. Peterson, Weber, Flatiron, Gypsy come to mind - usually can be found around $1K - sometimes less.

"Gypsy"..........most definitely LESS.

[junglejem]

I was ready to settle for a TC OM. I did some looking around and it seemed that Elderly was a quality shop from comments I have seen. I spoke with their repair shop about converting to LH and the costs bump the $550 original price to over $800 (including a handmade bridge).

Assuming this is what I'm faced with, a couple hundred more puts me into a price space of some independent luthiers where a LH setup may be less of an issue. Is this a valid assumption?

I have not come across any builders that charge an up-charge for lefty Bouzoukis/Citterns. Email W.A. Peterson for a quote on whatever you think you're looking for. Or Paddy Burgin, Davy Stuart or Richard Beard. I think you'll be impressed with all of them.

[citeog]

I'm a left-handed player that has over forty years experience playing on "backward" instruments. For what it's worth, I've never regretted learning the "wrong" way (except for when I visit Mandolin Brothers:o)). If you're a natural lefty then I would encourage you to purchase an instrument that satisfies your needs. I started playing bouzouki in 1994 on a Flatiron 3MC that was originally configured for a righty. A visit to a luthier for a new bridge and nut left me with an instrument that I played for thirteen years until I purchased a left-handed 'zouk from Joe Foley (with no upcharge).

Don't bother learning guitar if you want to play a bouzouki. Although the vast majority of bouzouki players are/were guitar players there's no advantage in coming from a guitar background.

Unlike a lot of people on this board, I'm not a fan of the Trinity College line. The few I've seen and heard are overbuilt and the sound is muddy. Eddie Sheehy's advice is dead-on. Buy the best instrument you can afford. Not only will your investment increase but your playing will be far more enjoyable. I own two 'zouks, a long-scale big-bodied one and a short-scale small-bodied yoke. If you have one made, as opposed to buying a ready-made, you have to decide what size you want in addition to other appointments.

As for teachers in the D.C. area, drop me an e-mail at <fearceol@gmail.com> and I might be able to help you there.

Lastly, a left-handed instrument won't be an issue with custom builders, although I wouldn't deal with any who charge extra for lefties (personal quirk).

All these opinions are just that: opinions, but I've been at this game for a while and I thought my ideas might help. Feel free to e-mail me off the board with any queries.

All the best on your quest.

Paul

[TrickyTerp]

Thanks Paul. I decided to work with Walt over at Gypsy. He is going to make me a LH OM. I'm really excited about it and can't wait until Sept/Oct to get started!