What Strings did Monroe Use?

[fatt-dad]

Dear NG,

I want to find out whether my Flatiron sounds just like a Loar, but should first get the strings right - ha. Really, I have been listening to Bill Monroe (and of course the Loar) and was just curious what strings and what type of pick he used.

Along the same vein, I first saw the New Grass Revival in 1972 and at the time, Sam must have broken two or three strings in a set. I saw him again last year and he didn't break one. Comments (or is he just getting less aggressive)?

fatt-dad

[Big Joe]

Mr. Bill used Monel Gibsons for a long time. Of course, he was not as interested in strings as he was in his playing. He did not change them often and was not very good about maintenance on his instrument. Great man, great player, but not one to take care of is mandolin. They were made to play and that was the whole thing for him.

Sam uses..Sam Bush strings by Gibson. Who woulda thunk it!

[duuuude]

OK, now I'm curious, so how did the "Monroe" signature strings come about?

[John Flynn]

Mike Compton talked at length about Bill and his attitude toward accessories. He said that Bill was fairly inconsistent and ambivalent about things like strings and picks. Mike told that great story about Bill forgetting to bring a pick to a workshop. One of Bill's friends went out to the car and found an old, generic pick between the seat cushions and gave it to Bill. In the workshop, Bill was asked what kind of picks he used, He held up that old pick and said emphatically, "I use THESE." Mike said that in Bill's later years, he didn't even change his own strings. Friend would do it for him and they would put thier favorites on, or whatever was available.

[Big Joe]

Mr. Bill used to call Charlie and complain about his mandolin sounding bad. Charlie would go get his mandolin and bring it to his shop. The strings had not been changed in six months and the mandolin would be pretty ragged. Charlie would get the strings changed, set it up, and clean it up. Mr. Bill would say that's how it was supposed to sound. Great man, Mr. Bill.

[Moose]

What a GREAT story!! - Another Monroe(ism)...- Thanks for posting Joe. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[duuuude]

Well there ya go, most of us are one up on Bill when it comes to changin' strings.
http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Still curious about the signature strings though, did he have a preference for heavier strings?

[Bradley]

Topics like this are what this website is for!!

A good question would be when were Bronze strings introduced versus the Monel/Steel style.Havent they (steel) been around alot longer?

[fatt-dad]

I read the book about Monroe and his strings. I also should have expected the reference to the Bill Monroe strings. (I will also go and buy some, so good marketing Big who-eats-lots-of-steaks Joe. But at some point there were no Gibson Bill Monroe strings on the shelves. Let's go back to the 60s or 70s (earlier if you want to). Where there Bill Monroe strings that far back? What did the good-ol-boys use? What choices were there really?

Does anybody know what pick Bill liked to have in his hand. I mean I'm not that much of a devotee, I just found myself curious as in this day and age, there are clearly soooo many choices, but decades ago, I suspect there were fewer options available.

fatt I'm-thinking-of-a-piece-of-pie dad

[evanreilly]

I think Monroe used a black Gibson triangular heavy pick.

[Steve G]

Hmmm. I would think tortoise in the early days, just a guess.

[Docmarc]

Many years ago, at a concert in Madison WI, Bill gave me the pick he'd been using on stage that night...I've still got it...a black Gibson heavy guitar style...

[fatt-dad]

So the outstanding issue is when did the Gibson Monroe strings come into being and what were the likely strings that Monroe used prior?

fatt i'm-going-to-buy-some-gibson-picks dad

[mandoJeremy]

I am think that came into being in the early nineties! Like, 91 or 92. That's my guess.

[evanreilly]

I remember looking in his case a while back & seeing lots of the orange Gibson string envelopes. Also the little piggy doll!!!!
Much later, Bill gave me a 'set' (he had apparently used the D strings!!) of the 'Bill Monroe' Gibson strings; he was proud of his picture on the wrapper. They are Model G-BMS; .011, .015, .026 & .041. The set included a Gibson Collector Card.

[mad dawg]

Mr. Bill used to call Charlie and complain about his mandolin sounding bad. #Charlie would go get his mandolin and bring it to his shop. #The strings had not been changed in six months and the mandolin would be pretty ragged.

I wonder if Bill also took his car/truck to the dealership whenever it started to handle bad, so his mechanic could add air to the tires for him? http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

[Ken Berner]

A few nights ago, we (a bunch of "older" gents) were talking old strings and the only two brands I connected with were Black Diamond and LaBella. Everyone got a chuckle out of that, as most of the guys didn't know those names. Our bass player saved my butt by announcing that he used LaBella strings today and how good they were. I'm really pleased to know that both companies still produce strings!

[fatt-dad]

Thanks All!

I'm going for some Monroe Strings, a black heavy guitar-size Gibson pick and a rattlesnake tail in the f-hole. I'll have to report back on my Flatiron - I think it will pass the test.

fatt-dad

[jim simpson]

fatt-dad,
Bill also took along his own bottled supply of orange juice in a cooler. Now I can't say if he mixed in anything special but his band seemed to get amuzement out of the subject. For good measure, I would have a glass of OJ too! (add your own special ingredients)

[Philip Halcomb]

fatt-dad, be careful with those Monroe strings though, I bought a set once and they were dead after playing one tune I believe. I believe they're designed to conk out quickly so your mandolin will sound like Bill's did after six months, and then you can call Charlie and complain so he'll come pick your mandolin up and set it up and change the strings for you! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

- Just kidding Charlie and Joe, you guys do a great job!

[Charlie Derrington]

When I first met Bill, he wasn't concerned about strings and used any strings he could find. (it was about the same with picks, but he usually used a med-heavy, modified triangular Gibson, black pick.)

After I started working on his instruments, I convinced him to go with the specific gauges on the Monroe set (it was my opinion that his mando sounded best with those gauges and phosphor bronze). After he started using those gauges, I convinced Gibson (I wasn't there at the time) to turn those into the Bill Monroe set.

Hope that clears things up.

Charlie

[fatt-dad]

he usually used a med-heavy, modified triangular Gibson, black pick.)
I just found one of these picks! So, my shopping list is now down one (just the strings) and up one (the o.j. - who would have thought).

I considered Charlie's answer and think that is interesting. I guess as one of the earlier posters suggested, Black Diamond and the other brand may have been the only game in town during the 40s, 50s, 60s, whenever. I expect Charlie must have not moved too much different from the gauge that Bill may have had on at first? So, my plan is intact! I have been working on Roanoke, Jeruselum Ridge, and Monroes Hornpipe. 'Bout half speed, but for now, just looking for the tone.

[Big Joe]

Gibson strings have been produced since the 30's in their factory in Elgin, Il. We still find some of those old string packs in instruments that come in for repair or appraisal. Seems strange to see them after so many years.

[fatt-dad]

BigJoe,

Do you have any idea whether there were broad choices in string gauge back then. In other words, if you had a Loar in the 20s and were going to restring it, would there be sales people asking, "now do you want this range of gauge" or would you just be lucky to find a set in some generic "mandolin" gauge?

f-d

[Big Joe]

Most likely just one guage, though I cannot speak from personal experience. Contrary to what my picture may tell you, I'm really not that old! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[Moose]

Just a "sidenote"... : anyone remember MAPES strings?? - useta' get extra E's, B's & G's...!!? - I think I paid $1.25 (set) for Black Diamond and $1.50/$1.75 for Mapes. Never could stand LA BELLA's... really poor quality. Man.., am I tellin' my age!!###. **Hey fatt-dad.. ; well, ya' got all the "equipment" now ; let us know when you get Mr. Monroe's "breaks" & instrumentals DOWN Perfect - AND at the the .... correct speed as recorded. Good Luck. Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/laugh.gif

[fatt-dad]

Just a "sidenote"... : anyone remember MAPES strings?? - useta' get extra E's, B's & G's...!!?
Err Moose,

I'm still trying to figure out which one is the B string. Please advise.

fatt-dad

[Moose]

I will explain : Guitar = 6 strings ; starting from the THINNEST/treble(gauge) to the THICKEST/bass(gauge) : #1/first or "E" -the thinnest ; #2/second or "B" - next thinnest(gauge) : #3/third or "G" - this string is usually "wound" . So, here we have the first/"thinnest" string = "E" ; it is termed "plain" (like in NOT wound) - second "thicker' = "B" string ; the third string is the "G" string(don't confuse this musical string with other so-called "G" strings if ya' know what I mean) - The time-honored/traditional method is...: thinnest= first or "E" ; next to it(E) is the "B" or sometimes called "second" string ; next to the second(B) - is the "G" or third string - Now mind you, I'm talkin' 'bout a GUITAR - my appologies for discussing GUITAR on a MANDOLIN website. The entire range - going "first' to sixth string would be labeled in this sequence : first="E" ; second = "B" ; third = "G" ; fourth = "D" ' fifth = "A" and lastly sixth = "E". You will notice there ar 2(two) "E" strings... the first and the sixth. Hence EBGDAE = guitar ; NOW the mandolin strings are tuned E-A-D-G(i.e. thinnest to thickest) - AS I mentioned MAPES gave extra 1st, 2nd an 3rd strings(guitar) as these are the strings MOST(!) guitar players are prone to break. I hope this gives you a decent explaination of the tuning of the guitar ; again, my appologies to the mandolin folks here. That's another story. Regards & happy pickin', Moose. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[fatt-dad]

Moose,

You are a good sport - ha.

fatt there's-a-guiter-in-there-somewhere dad

[Moose]

Thank you..., Jacob ; bet they cost more than $1.75 NOW!!!## - Hey! fatt-dad: No harm intended!! (I'll probably get some interesting comments on THAT post!... hee.. hee..)- Enjoy your mando AND music - "Life is short ; pick every chance ya' get" - http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[s1m0n]

...And a million mandolinists rush to change their strings, only to discover that they STILL don't sound like Bill Monroe...

[fatt-dad]

So, I ordered four sets of Monroe strings from "Just Strings" and all but one of them are backordered. So, I have one crack at it - maybe next week. Can I do it. . . .

f-d

[J. Mark Lane]

This discussion reminds me of the time Merle Travis was asked, by a breathless fan, "What kind of strings do you use, Mr. Travis?" His response, in classic Merle style, was, "Well, son, I use *guitar* strings!"

Mark

[Moose]

J. Mark Lane.. : Thanks for the "anecdote". RIP Mr. Travis - Thank YOU!.. for the music.(sorry to go off thread!) http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/coffee.gif

[J. Mark Lane]

I'm a big fan of Ole Merle. I think he was to the guitar what Monroe was to the mandolin. Similar characters, in some ways, although I don't think Monroe ever got quite as far "off track" in his personal life as Merle did. RIP both of them!

Mark

[Mike Bullard]

Back around 1991 I was at Longhollow (Goodletsville) and asked Bill what strings he was using. He opened his case and gave me a set of his Gibson signature strings and then signed them for me. Still have them somewhere.

[Darryl Wolfe]

Long ago..I remember seeing Black Diamond strings in Bill's mandolin case. I believe this supports Charlies comment that for the most part, he used to use anything he could get up until "Gibsons"

[fatt-dad]

Yesterday my Bill Monroe strings arrived (JustStrings mail order). Maybe tonight or tomorrow, I'll be playing Roanoke. . . . .

f-d

p.s., still looking for the rattlesnake tail.

[duuuude]

Get yer snake tail here:

http://www.bigcountrytradingpost.com/Randals/snakes.html

[fatt-dad]

duuuude,

And, their only $17.95 (I mean I would have to get the biggest one - eh).

Thanks for the link.

f-d

[Salty Dog]

Bill did change some things as he aged. #I recently asked a local group why they were playing "Kentucky Waltz" in the key of E, and the fiddler told me that was where Bill played it. #I told her that wasn't where Bill played it - he played it in D and it danced right off the D chord. #I went home to double check and, to my surprise, found a live Bean Blossom album CA 1991 and guess what - Bill was playing it in E and the mandolin breaks were awful compared to the D version. #Maybe those strings were so dead he had to change keys http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif.
# # Sometime later I saw the same group do the song and they played it in D. #The fiddler told me she was so happy I had talked to them as the song was a real bear to play in E.

[futrconslr]

As to picks and strings.......someone told me one time he used whatever gibson gave him cause they were free!! lol

[fatt-dad]

You know, I did use those Monroe Strings and I like them. Just a little larger (o.41) on the G string compared to the 0.40 of the J-74s. No sooner than I had the restring, I decided to have the fretboard radiused. So, it is out of the house for a week or so. So, I doubt that Bill had a radius board or a Flatiron A-5, but at least for now, we may have the same strings and pick (black heavy large triangle gibson pick). The rattler tail is in the works and I have a few Monroe tunes in the bag.

Stay tuned. . . .

f-d

[futrconslr]

I am sure that is why my playing has suffered.....no rattler tail!!!http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif