How do you put sets together?

[montana]

Is there any special consideration to putting fiddle tunes into a set? Do they all have to be the same genre (Reels, Hornpipes,Jigs) or can you mix them up? Should they be in the same key? How do you create your sets?

[Steve L]

It's more art than science. I play primarily Irish music and we tend to play the same tune type in a set ( a set of jigs, a set of reels, a set of polkas). Usually there is a key change though sometimes a set of tunes in the same key works well. What you're after is the elusive quality of "lift" that you get when a good transiton between tunes occurs.

Your question is one reason I tend to favor tune collections for building repertoire that feature tunes organized in sets (such as the Comhaltas Foinn session series) rather than just bunches of tunes for folks just starting out. You build your tunelist, get used to the transitions, and devolop a sense of what works in making a set.

As is often the case in this music, listening is the best teacher. Figure out which things in a transition you really like (Going major to minor, going to a fouth or a fifth away, etc).

I believe the Cape Breton traditon is somewhat different including several types of tunes in a set.

[Ravenwood]

In my regular Friday evening session (which is in a small town in western Ontario) we have the tendency to mix tune types. I don't know if it's common throughout the region or just us. Three of us are originally from the Maritime provinces and one from the Ottawa Valley and have always mixed tunes in sessions. I think, for us it has a lot to do with session vs ceilidh. At a ceilidh you pretty much have to play sets where the tunes are as similar as possible for the dancers. At a session, you have more opportunity to mix things up a bit, especially if the participants have been playing together for a time.

[Bertram Henze]

Standard: Don't mix tune types, do mix keys, avoid putting similar sounding tunes in one set. Each new tune should add a new flavor.

Advanced: mixing tune types is possible, but the session participants must be prepared for it. Go from slow to fast (e.g. jig - jig - reel)

[Randi Gormley]

I have seen a couple tune type changes, but it's usually from slip jig to regular jig. I'd second the idea of trying to keep similar tunes from a set, since there's always a chance you'll play part A from one tune and then slip into part B from the second. We usually keep our sets the same types (jig set, reel set, hornpipe set) just because we're apt to get confused easily.

[montana]

Starting today to but sets together of the tunes I know and programing backups in Band in a Box to play along with. Thanks everyone for all the help

[allenhopkins]

Try this: (http://www.allenhopkins.org/music/hornpipeandreels.mp3) Rights of Man, Drowsy Maggie, Rory O'Moore. My band Innisfree; I'm on concertina, switching to Sobell mandola, with Mark Deprez on mandolin-banjo, Kathleen Cappon on button accordion, Barb Jablonski on guitar. Mixin' it up a little.

[Ravenwood]

To summarize for the OP just a little bit, how tunes are brought together into sets is as Steve pointed out more art than science, and there is a great deal of variation among sessions. As Bertram pointed out, most beginner sessions (and many advanced sessions for that matter) tend to form sets of all one tune type (jig-jig-jig, reel-reel-reel, etc.) with the lift that Steve mentioned. To get that lift, usual some change in key or mode takes place. For example a three jig set that shifts from the key of D to G to A would not be uncommon. Other ways of doing this is to shift modes, e.g. from D Dorian to D Mixolydian and back to Dorian. A very common shift is to start in a major key, shift to its relative minor, then back to the major. This is where the art of it comes into play. There are lots of ways this can be done. The essential, however, is always the same. Look for tunes that end and begin in similar ways so the transition is smooth. For some really good examples of this, take a look at the way Joe Carr and Micael Gregory pair up tunes in their book http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=21546BCD. Also what Allen is showing is an outstanding example. Although shifting tune types, the transitions are smooth because they link well at the end of one and beginning of the next.

In more advanced sessions, and in some geographies you will find tune types mixed more often, which is the point I was making. As Steve pointed out, in Cape Breton they tend to mix types, but they do so in a specific progression. I'm not sure about the specific progression but I think its something like barndance, to hornpipe or strathspey, to a reel, or some variation on that general theme. This is due to the strong Scottish influence that you will find throughout eastern Canada (which is why I mentioned where my session mates are from), especially strong in Cape Breton and Quebec (some have argued that quebecois music is more like Scottish than French). This kind of mixing, however, does take a good bit of communication before the set begins, which is why you usually only hear this at advanced sessions, or where the musicians have been playing together for a long time. Again here the essential skill involved is getting a smooth transition from tune to tune and developing that sense of lift.

Hope that helps!

[JeffD]

Depends on what kind of playing you are organizing your sets for.

A jam session might organize them by rhythm or dance type, in changing keys, if it was Irish Traditional, and by key if it was Old Timey, or by increasing speed if it was a bunch Cape Breton tunes. A contra dance would organize by dance type. Instrumental set for performance might go in increasing speed and excitement. A show for gradeschoolers might have sets organized by animal, pig tunes, followed by squirrel tunes, followed by woodchuck tunes.

Most important thing is to keep in interesting and fun.

[EdSherry]

Some Irish "set dances" require a very particular order of different tune types (and lengths). If you're working up material for a band, feel free to mix and match. But most sessions I go to don't tend to mix tune types within a set (though mixing up keys/modes is quite common, and usually is a good idea).

[Ravenwood]

In an earlier post in this thread I mentioned Joe Carr's and Michael Gregory's book, but managed to mistype Michael's name. My apologies to Michael. I unfortunately am not able to edit the post as it is well beyond the three hour limit, but here is a correction with a link to their book:


Look for tunes that end and begin in similar ways so the transition is smooth. For some really good examples of this, take a look at the way Joe Carr and Michael Gregory pair up tunes in their book http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=21546BCD.

[Rob Gerety]

In the contra dance world it is not uncommon to go from a jig, or two, to a reel. It provides an energy lift even thought the tempo is the same.

Also, sometimes it works to play a second tune that is in the same key as the 5th of the proceeding tune - so if the first tune is in G you might try a tune in D for the second tune and a tune in A for the third tune.

[Bernie Daniel]

To summarize for the OP just a little bit, how tunes are brought together into sets is as Steve pointed out more art than science, and there is a great deal of variation among sessions. As Bertram pointed out, most beginner sessions (and many advanced sessions for that matter) tend to form sets of all one tune type (jig-jig-jig, reel-reel-reel, etc.) with the lift that Steve mentioned. To get that lift, usual some change in key or mode takes place. For example a three jig set that shifts from the key of D to G to A would not be uncommon. Other ways of doing this is to shift modes, e.g. from D Dorian to D Mixolydian and back to Dorian. A very common shift is to start in a major key, shift to its relative minor, then back to the major. This is where the art of it comes into play. There are lots of ways this can be done. The essential, however, is always the same. Look for tunes that end and begin in similar ways so the transition is smooth. For some really good examples of this, take a look at the way Joe Carr and Micael Gregory pair up tunes in their book http://www.melbay.com/product.asp?ProductID=21546BCD. Also what Allen is showing is an outstanding example. Although shifting tune types, the transitions are smooth because they link well at the end of one and beginning of the next.

In more advanced sessions, and in some geographies you will find tune types mixed more often, which is the point I was making. As Steve pointed out, in Cape Breton they tend to mix types, but they do so in a specific progression. I'm not sure about the specific progression but I think its something like barndance, to hornpipe or strathspey, to a reel, or some variation on that general theme. This is due to the strong Scottish influence that you will find throughout eastern Canada (which is why I mentioned where my session mates are from), especially strong in Cape Breton and Quebec (some have argued that quebecois music is more like Scottish than French). This kind of mixing, however, does take a good bit of communication before the set begins, which is why you usually only hear this at advanced sessions, or where the musicians have been playing together for a long time. Again here the essential skill involved is getting a smooth transition from tune to tune and developing that sense of lift.

Hope that helps!

This is a great summary that is indeed good reading too. My knowledge and actual experience in this is limited but I have been most interested in it. I would comment on one point with regard to the Cape Beton set style.

These seem to me to usually feature tempo as the "lift agent". The tempo change is achieved by changing tune type slower - -faster -faster still.

I refer you especially to Buddy MacMaster's work -- you can find some great examples on YouTube. He typically starts with a slow march or an aire, proceeds to one or several strathspeys and then finishes off with a set of reels. I have never looked closely at this aspect but I think he tends to stay in the same key generally for the set.

There are several classic MacMaster sets on his "Judique on the Floor" project for example. Ravenwood's point about the transitions is certainly true for his work also the changes are essentially "seamless".

One other point. On one of my trips to Cape Breton I heard a well known fiddler from there make the comment at performance (responding to a question) that mixing jigs and reels in a set is not recommended -- her reason being the change in rhythm being too much to make a smooth & pleasing transition. I'm not sure if all fiddlers from that region feel this way as well -- but I cannot recall a set that did combine those two types.

I've often wonder how hornpipes fit into to this?

[CelticDude]

I'm usually playing for contra dances, so they all need to be straight 32-bar tunes, generally 3 per set. However, jig to reels, or jigs ending with a reel works great (I'm not fond of reel into jig, but I've heard bands that make it work.)

If you don't have the contradance restriction then anything goes, AFA genre, although I'd prefer slower into faster - air to hornpipe to jig to reel (maybe not all at once...). To torture guitarists, throw in a 7/8 tune.

Keys are trickier, and this is definitely art not science. I prefer variation, but if the character of the tunes is different enough, then all the same key can work. Going "up" in key seems to work better (eg. D to EDor/Emin to G or ADor/Amin). Play around and have fun.

[mculliton123]

In the contra dance world it is not uncommon to go from a jig, or two, to a reel. It provides an energy lift even thought the tempo is the same.

Also, sometimes it works to play a second tune that is in the same key as the 5th of the proceeding tune - so if the first tune is in G you might try a tune in D for the second tune and a tune in A for the third tune.

Rob, in your example, what, if any, chord progression or other segue would you go thru to get from G to D? is there a formula or ?
thx

michael

[dulcidude]

I've been thinking about this topic for a few years now. I've heard of sets that start out with jig, jig, jig, reel that really fire me up. A tune that changes keys from A to D to E also lights my fire. Really guys, I haven't figured out why or the music theory behind such a progression but it's a great way to change up a tune. FYI, Judi Morningstar published a fakebook (The Ruffwater Fakebook) for their contra band that features some great sets that go from major to minor back to major chords anybody can play. I just know when I'm in a jam where I'm not sure about the musician's experience I'll mix familiar standard D tunes with more difficult pieces so everybody gets a chance to play mostly going up in chords to keep everything lively. I do watch blending tunes together that are too much alike. Glass Island Reel to Em Tamlin is too close to use but it does come up in our jams. Just another opinion but Tar Road to Sligo is a SWEET tune but NOT at the beginning or end of a set.

[dmcginnis]

Hi Montana - I sent you a PM about this...we have a Celtic session in Billings and we would love to have you come down and join us...

Cheers,
Dave

[raulb]

I wonder if there really is a "proper" way for a mandolinist to put together sets. In Scottish bagpipe contests, for example, they do: a march, a strathspey, and a reel.

[JeffD]

Rob, in your example, what, if any, chord progression or other segue would you go thru to get from G to D? is there a formula or ?
thx

michael

I find just jumping into the next tune works best. The tune is changing and the key is changing - its very dramatic for the dancers. I do a lot of G to D to A tune sets