Where do you usually pick?

[grandmainger]

I'm always puzzled at how much different the sound of my mando is depending on where I actually hit the strings between the bridge and the fretboard.
I usually pick in the rough area marked C in the photo below. That's well off the fretboard.

I curious about scooped fretboards, and was wondering how many people actually pick in area A... Which area do you usually pick in?

[keymandoguy]

I have a scooped fretbpard and I pick in area A http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mandosmiley.gif

[Tom C]

Many times I end up before your "A". My friend pointed that out to me recently and said that I get a really nice tone up there. I did not notice it -not that it's bad, but I am now more conscious of it.

[Jasper]

I typically pick in the "A" area as well, but don't have a scooped fretboard. This is a minor issue. It seems that as you move higher up the fretboard, you get a fuller sound, to a point, that is less tinney.

Jasper

[250sc]

I also prefer to pick in the 'A' area or even farther over the fretboard. If I need more cut to be heard I might play as far back as 'C' but not often.

[AlanN]

Nice graphic.

I'm B, and modified my technique long ago to not hit the florida too much ('cause I won't do the scoop)

[Peter Hackman]

C!!!!!!!

[Keith Wallen]

I pick in the A area but my fret board is cut off and doesn't have the tail. Should probably also note that I move around for different sounds during a break but mostly stay in the A area.

[Martin Jonas]

Usually A, although I sometimes go closer to the bridge (or over the fretboard) if I want a different tone colour. #I'm very glad that my F-style doesn't have a Florida, so I have plenty of clearance there. #I don't pick very deep, but I think the extension would put me off psychologically more than physically.

Martin

[Chris Baird]

Here is a quote from Dave Cohen. #Perhaps there are those whom want to know the "why for" as well as the "what".

" Vary the position at which you pluck the string. #You will find some interesting things. #If the string is plucked in the middle, i.e., over the 12th fret, all of the even harmonics, i.e., the 0th, 2nd, 4th, 6th,..., will be missing, or at least very weak. #If you pluck the string at one fifth of the distance from the bridge to the nut, every fifth harmonic, i.e., the 5th, 10th, 15th, etc., will be weak or absent. #Similarly, if you pluck the string at one eighth of the distance from the bridge to the nut, every eighth harmonic, i.e., the 8th, 16th, 24th,..., will be weak or absent, and so on. #Another thing is that if the string is plucked close to the bridge, the resulting fft will show the amplitudes of the higher harmonics to be relatively greater than if you pluck the string near its center, i.e., over the 12th fret."

The harmonic series that you excite will "color" the tone you hear.

[Martin Jonas]

Mandoplyr -- the first part of that quote (up to "Another thing is...") refers to a fairly fundamental phenomenon in wave analysis, but is not really the cause for the different tonal colours when picked in different locations. #The supression of the odd harmonics when picking over the 12th fret only occurs if you pick exactly at the 12th fret -- picking at, say, the 13th gives you a completely different picture. #So, what Dave Cohen was talking about is a discrete phenomenon: picking at certain precise locations supresses certain harmonics, namely all those that happen to have a node at that location on the string. #That's quite different from the continuous mellowing of the tone as you move from the bridge towards the centre of the string (which is what Dave was talking about in the second part of that quote). #This is because the closer you are to the centre, the stronger will be the amplitude of the base note (0th harmonics) compared to the higher harmonics and the closer will the overall wave function resemble a pure sine function. #Also, picking there requires less initial displacement (i.e. picking effort) to produce the same volume.

One practical thing to consider when playing, especially for those who play a lot up the neck, is that what matters for tonal colour is not the picking position in relation to the total scale length but in relation to the length of the frettedstring. #In other words, the higher up the neck you play, the closer you should pick to the bridge in order to achieve the same tonal colour.

Martin
(Dave Cohen isn't the only physics PhD around here...)

[John Flynn]

My favorite mando player, Curits Buckhannon, runs all over the picking area to get different effects. He will pick from right in front of the bridge to over the 12th fret. Also, he will rotate the pick and the pick angle for different sounds. Sometimes, he will rest his hand right on top of the bridge to get a muted sound. He uses these right hand variations as much as other people use left hand variations, like passing tones, hammer-ons, etc. and his tremlo is outrageously good. In answer to your question, I try not to think in terms of "where I usually pick." I try to emulate Curtis and pick where I get the sound I want for every passage I play.

[SternART]

I'm with Mando Johnny...I vary the spot quite a bit....I notice that sometimes I'm in the pre A zone, more over the board, to get a fatter sound, especially in tremelo mode. Probably most of the time I'm in A or B...but I vary it depending on how it sounds at the time & the tone I'm searching for.

[tiltman]

What an excellent discussion.

Martin, thank you for your comments about the distance to the fretted string. I tend to vary where I pick based upon the sound I want - on the bridge for a "twangy" bluegrass sound vs. over the frets for mellow tremelos. I thought that the sound was getting lost sometimes and I bet it is when I move up the neck.

Now how about varnish vs. laquer finish... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/tounge.gif

Kirk

[Chris Baird]

Martin, Thanks for the clarification.

[grandmainger]

Thanks for the replies folks! It looks like I ought to not settle on any particular spot. I'm finding it quite difficult to move closer to the fretboard at the moment, but I'm sure it'll come with practice.

[gdae85]

C/D

[Flowerpot]

I'm past the A, over the 22nd to 23rd fret. But I like a deep tone, and dislike anything "tinky" sounding.

[pickinpox]

hit the florida

I had to read that a couple of times before I got it. #Man, I love this place http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

[gdae85]

hit the florida

I had to read that a couple of times before I got it. #Man, I love this place http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif
I happen to live there in the eastern part of the last fret. http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[craigtoo]

I'm all over Florida...but rarely in the Keys...

I Stay mostly in the St. Petersburg area...but it does depend what I want for sound...

http://www.mapquest.com/maps....earch++ (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?country=US&countryid=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=address&searchtype=address&address=&city=&state=FL&zipcode=&search=++Search++)

[fatt-dad]

I notice that I pick in the "A" area.

f-d

[Hoyt]

On Mandola and Octave:

c and D -- 75% of time. B and A -- 25%.

[smilnJackB]

Good thread! I pick in the A region and I kind of thought it was a bad habit. Hey! It seems to be okay! Jack

[mandolooter]

I move all over since it's one of my fav ways to change the tone but I really love it right over the 15th fret and spend a lot of time there.

[Yellowmandolin]

Right in the middle of A and B.

[Jeffers]

I like the sound from A, but am used to resting the heel of my hand behind the bridge which you cant do if you want to play right on up the fretboard. I've been trying to practice not resting the hand but am less steady so far. Anyone else find that?

[grandmainger]

I like the sound from A, but am used to resting the heel of my hand behind the bridge which you cant do if you want to play right on up the fretboard. #I've been trying to practice not resting the hand but am less steady so far. #Anyone else find that?
Yup! Same here. I can move a bit towards the fretboard, but the minute I take my hand off the bridge... http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wow.gif !!!

[Lieufire]

Mostly in the A area, but I slow song tremolo in the A- area.

[mandocrucian]

If you were to expand the original photo into additional zones going toward the nut as follows:

<span style='color:red'>d - c - b - a -</span> A - B - C - D [<span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%'>#("d" would be somewhere between the 10th to 13th frets, by my guestimate.)</span>

It's hard to say where I plunk, so much depends on the genre, groove, tempo etc., but it ranges from d to B, but sometimes there will be conscious use to play in Zone A as a contrasting effect. (can give you a hammer dulcimer sound).

Just as the striking area on the string length can change the tone by the way it excites or depresses the harmonic series, the thickness and material of your pick(s) have a similar effect. Thinner picks brings out the trebliness similar to moving closer and closer to the bridge.

If you use a triangular pick, you can have three different point thicknesses, and vary your tone by turning your "tone knob" to a different position. #Or you could just change striking zones on the string length, or both.

But the pick angle, and the angle of (hand) attack also can alter the sound. Or you could incorporate right hand fingers into the equation. #Some mandolins (roundholes are a good example) the tone, as well as the volume, can change depending on how hard you strike the strings. It's a very complex situation of multiple competing factors. And to instinctively know how your instrument is going to sound under different circumstances takes a long time, which is why I'm of the opinion that it is better to live with one (or two) mandos for years rather than changing instruments every 2 or 3 years as some folks are prone to do. #

This has probably drifted a long way from what the original question was asking for, but it's probably a good idea to talk about long-term iimplications and application of the phenomena. #

Here's a Tonal Call & Response exercise:
Take some tune that you know well, let's say Old Joe Clark and alternate picking zones. #First phrase (2 bars) play in Zone A, the next two bars, play in zone D, etc. throughout the whole tune. #Then reverse the order, Zone D - zone A. The effect will be better if you don't try to play a continuous non-stop stream of notes, but rather clearly segmented phrases.

Select a different combination of zones and repeat the exercise. This back and forth movement will help make you more aware of the variations of sound quality. Until you begin to get a handle on the cause/effect, you won't have the awareness needed to start exploiting these nuances.

Niles Hokkanen