French mandolin

[John Craton]

Well, I'm familiar with Italian, German, Japanese, and American mandolins, but I've never heard or played a French one to my knowledge. Here's one on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10179&item=3749702192&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW). Has the appearance of a frilly wall hanger, but knowing nothing about French mandos I didn't want to pass judgment. Opinions, anyone?? (Now if you want to know about French violins, that's something we can talk about.)

[JiminRussia]

You may want to take a look at this guy's feedback before you bid. As far as the mandolin goes, It looks ok in the picture, but do you play lassical mandolin?

[Eugene]

I wish there was a better picture of the label. #Superficially, it looks like a middle-class instrument from the shop of Thibouville-Lamy, but I don't know their labels through the ages well enough to recognize one without being able to read the text. The bridge is either a bad replacement or damaged enough to require replacement.

I have handled two mid-19th c. guitars from that shop, but never a mandolin. #The guitars definitely were high-end and very neatly crafted. #They did build mandolins. #T-L was relatively long-lived and spanned the era of transition from mandolins strung in brass wire and silver-wound silk to those strung in steel. I've seen images of a beautiful ca. 1850 instrument of the earlier breed of Neapolitan mandolin from the T-L shop. #I believe later instruments built for that label originated in a number of different manufacturers in the Mirecourt region, but I'm not entirely certain. Alex Timmerman or one of our contributors in France (e.g., Richard Walz) may know.

Mandolins were as massively popular in France as they were elsewhere in the mandolin's golden eras of the late 1700s and ca. 1900. #I own a French mandolin of ca. 1835 vintage.

[Martin Jonas]

There are nice photographs of a Thibouville-Lamy on the Sinier de Ridder (http://sinierderidder.free.fr/gb/maingb.html) site. #The floral decorations on the soundboard are reminiscent of the Ebay mandolin, but otherwise it doesn't look all that similar to me. #Body shape, style of soundhole, style of headstock, type of tuners are all markedly different. #Of course, some or all of these differences may be because the Sinier de Ridder mandolin is likely to be rather more high-end.

Martin

[Jim Garber]

I heard back from the seller who reports:

The label says EUTERPHIA, DEPOSE, TRADE MARK; DEPOSE, Exigence Timbre de Garantu.

The correct spelling is Euterpia. There was one discussed a year ago. Here is the full label etc.

Jim

[Eugene]

For that matter, the Euterpia that Jim has pictured doesn't look particularly similar to the piece currently on eBay. I really do believe that several Mirecourt-region manufacturers built for the T-L label (and others) by this time. It looks to me as though France was as prone to cross-label luthiery as the US was in that last golden era.

[John Craton]

Well, much to my surprise I seem to have won the auction for this French poodle. Surprising because I put a very low bid on it not expecting it to hold. We'll see what we get, and I'll post my impressions when the instrument arrives. Thanks to all for your input. (And keep your fingers crossed for me that DHL doesn't do what UPS did a few weeks ago, turning a lovely bowlback into a flatback http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/mad.gif )

[Jim Garber]

John:
Good Luck. I have a feeling that others might have been turned off by the seller's negative feedback. Let's hope that that is not the case with you.

You might check into some sort of escrow arrangement or see if the seller accepts credit cards/PayPal or the like. Make sure that you get all the pertinent info maybe make the seller aware that you need assurance that the mandolin get to you. Maybe there is a way to have it shipped collect?

I have been waiting on my Stridente for a few weeks more than I'd like and tried to email the seller for status report without getting a reply. I was starting to get worried and then he contacted me after I found his email address on a few other sites and emailed his colleagues. His phone number on eBay seemed non-functional as well.

Finally yesterday i heard from him via email and he said that he was out of town and asked his wife to ship the mandolin but she hadn;t and that he would pay refund the shipping. We shall see.

I have not been stuck on eBay as yet (knock on spruce) and I have been doing it for prob more than 5 years.

Jim

[John Craton]

Well, I said that I'd give my impressions of the instrument when it arrived, so here goes.

The mandolin was well packaged and did not suffer any ravages from the deliverymen. I found the seller very easy to work with, despite his several negatives. (I believe most who have nailed him on eBay should have directed their complaints to the shipper rather than the seller as I had no problems at all.) His English is not first-rate, but heck, it's better than my French! (The seller is German, and outside of musical terms I can only manage about a dozen words in that language.)

Possibly because of his negative feedbacks, I was only one of two bidders on this mando and got it for practically nothing. In truth, I never expected my basement-low bid to hold.

The instrument obviously had been gracing someone's attic for ages and came with only five strings that looked almost as old as the mando itself. That's okay, as I nearly always restring the mandos I buy anyway. The instrument was as described in the text and photos: one repair to the belly, and missing a few of the small MOP decorative fittings. I restrung it with a set of light Thomastiks (the only strings I use). I did have to do a lot of cleaning of the instrument, including removing an annoying amount of gunk from the neck and some light rust from a few of the tuners, but overall it wasn't bad. Someone had put the nut on backward, so I removed it and set it correctly. The bridge may not be original and had to be adjusted, but again, no major problem.

Once set up, the instrument produces a wonderful tone, far in excess of anything I expected from it. I'm used to playing a big German Herwiga, and I never anticipated the depth of color I could get out of this little puppy. The sound of the instrument reminds me a lot of the Vega that Richard Walz used in one of his recordings, though if I may be so bold I think this Euterpia has a stronger low register -- I was amazed at how full it is all the way down. And its intonation is absolutely dead-on -- another big but pleasant surprise.

My only complaints might be that the action is set a smidgin higher than I would prefer, but it is entirely workable for me. And it could stand being refretted at some point (it obviously has been played a great deal in its lifetime), but I'll probably leave that to whoever inherits it after I go on to other worlds.

All in all, I must say that I am bowled over (pardon the pun) by my good fortune in this instance. Generally when I think I've found a real "bargain" on eBay I soon regret it. But this little fellow is worth many times what I paid for it and is most welcome to a permanent place in my small collection.

I do wish I knew its year of birth, just for curiosity's sake. All I know for now is that it is a 19th-century Euterpia -- the first French mando I've ever even played, much less owned. If anyone has any ideas of how to narrow its date, I'd really appreciate it.

Bottom line: I can recommend the seller and this instrument. I wouldn't say you should expect to take a mando right out of the box and jam with it if you buy from kleostratos, but with just a modicum of TLC you might get as lucky as I did. No complaints from one happy buyer!

[Eugene]

Congrats, and welcome to the club of the diminutive Neapolitan-style bowl, even if yours is from France! How is the obvious crack in the soundboard; will it need attention? Will you be replacing what's left of the bridge? Regarding a date, I would guess mid-late 1890s, but that's no better than a guess. That style of tailpiece was popular around that time.

[John Craton]

I will probably replace the bridge the next time I string it, but given its accurate intonation as is, I'm not in a big hurry. The crack is very obvious but was at some point effectively, if not aesthetically, repaired. Looks as though the repair will hold indefinitely. There are a number of other small blemishes (after 100+ years, I'd likely have a few as well), but they don't affect its playability. So far I'm very well pleased. But I don't think I'll press my luck and go after many more "bargain basement" mandos on eBay. I've never been "taken" by a sale, but several instruments I've won in the past were, shall we say, disappointments. Not this one.

[Brandolin Tucker12]

Did you mean a "FREEDOM" mandolin? LOL ( Oh, that kills me)

[John Craton]

Here is a photo of my new French mistress.

http://www.wolfheadmusic.com/images/Frenchy.jpg