Virzi

[Malcolm G.]

Hi All,

I've tried a search or two, but I'm comming up dry on Virzi's, and wonder what you feel about them when built into F5s?

I'm having a red spruce mandolin built by one of our graceous builder/contributers, and I've asked her to include one for fun.

Now, I've never heard a mandolin that has a Virzi and I'd love some ideas of what to expect.

Thanks in advance!

:confused:

[MikeEdgerton]

Here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/search.php?query=virzi&exactname=0&starteronly=0&forumchoice%5B%5D=&prefixchoice%5B%5D=&childforums=1&titleonly=1&searchdate=0&beforeafter=after&do=process) are three pages of message threads with the word virzi in the subject. The applicable titles should jump right out at you.

[Malcolm G.]

Thanks Mike!

As well as learning to play, I gotta learn to navigate!

Cheers!

[Malcolm G.]

Everything I needed to know - and my very big thank you - what a great repository of knowledge, history and opinion is the Cafe!

I'm looking for tone over volume - WAY over volume - so this seems to be a good way to go in my case.

Cheers!

[evanreilly]

And there is the Virzi social group, hanging out in the back room of the 'Cafe!!!!

[hank]

I've only personally heard one and it was in a beautiful sounding modern style(F5 neck)F4. I was lucky enough to hear it back to back with my F5 making it so much more enjoyable. The best way I can describe the difference in it and mine was the Virzi'd F4 seemed to mimic the vibrato of the human voice. I don't know if this is what others hear or not and I don't know if it would be very different in an F5. Seem like I have heard it described as a sort of acoustic reverb. Fun stuff for sure.

[Willie]

I have played a few and heard a few more and can`t say I like them...Anything that connects to the top has to take away from the intended sound as it keeps the top from vibrating like it is intended to do, there may be different carving specs if using one but I don`t think builders alter any of their dimensions...I am not a builder, just a player and listener with 50 years af doing just that....Willie

[Lefty Luthier]

Adding a Virzi to an F5 depends on the sound one is seeking. Virzi's tend to lower the soundboard resonance but can, if properly installed and tuned, dramatically improve the lower pitch notes. I don't recommend them unless the customer really understands what sound they are seeking. I have seen little evidence that they lower the acoustic output but personally don't like them.

[lenf12]

Adding a Virzi to an F5 depends on the sound one is seeking. Virzi's tend to lower the soundboard resonance but can, if properly installed and tuned, dramatically improve the lower pitch notes. I don't recommend them unless the customer really understands what sound they are seeking. I have seen little evidence that they lower the acoustic output but personally don't like them.

Lowering the soundboard resonance might be the perfect application for a mandola. I have one in my Duff H-5 and like the tonal response very much.

Len B.
Clearwater, FL

[Mike Snyder]

What did SHE say about the Virzi? Gail, I hope is she, and she has experience.

[Goodin]

In my experience the Virzi adds more complexity to the tone that is hard to describe but I think Hank nailed it with "acoustic reverb". It makes the sound more focused so it sounds slightly quieter to the player behind the mandolin but out front there isn't much difference in volume, however there is definitely a difference in tone. My opinions are based on an "apples to apples" comparison with a '24 F-2 with Virzi to a '24 F-4 without a Virzi; and the help of a well respected luthier friend who has much experience building mandolins with Virzi's.

I would not recommend a Virzi for the heavy handed bluegrasser but it works nicely with Celtic and classical styles.

[Mike Black]

I would also like to add that in "my opinion" Virzi's are more suited to oval hole instruments than f-holed instruments. I've never played or heard an oval hole instrument with a virzi that I didn't like.

[hank]

Quote Lefty Luthier "Virzi's tend to lower the soundboard resonance but can, if properly installed and tuned, dramatically improve the lower pitch notes."
This is interesting to hear because the one I heard had a very strong presence(more cutting?) above the seventh fret and I was told it was the effect of the virzi. I don't understand what little I have been told about virzi's but I agree that it seemed to lend itself toward the Celtic, oval hole side of the spectrum.

[Lefty Luthier]

I always put a Virzi on my mandolas and often on oval hole A+ instruments but as I mentioned above, seldom on an F5 unless the customer really knows what sound they are seeking. Having taken any number of quantitative spectrum measurements with and without a Virzi, I have never measured an increase in A or E string notes but nearly always, the D, G, C notes are more prominent with the Virzi on a mandola.

[Geoff B]

I got to play a Loar (July 9!) with a virzi and the owner explained to me that the virzi really made the high notes (e-course, 10th fret and up) sing and added power to them. By the way he played it, I believed it, but I think he could have pulled tone out of a dining room table. It did sound nice up there, but it would be hard to say it was from the virzi or some other magical voodoo of a holy grail instrument.

I'd trust your builder's impression, since she will be the one putting it in!
Have fun with it!

[Malcolm G.]

My builder is Stephanie Reiser and she's perfectly willing to add a Virzi to my F5 build. She agrees with your observations to a large extent, has played mandolins with Virzis, I believe had one in a personal instrument and plans to add one to a build down the road for herself.
I like the idea of Hank's "vibrato" and the lower resonance etc. and thank you all for your thoughts.

This mandolin will have both a unique sound and look - exactly what I'm going for.

I'll let y'all know what I think down the road.

All the best........

[cwtwang]

I learned about Virzi's here:

http://www.mandozine.com/resources/virzi.php

[Malcolm G.]

A great link, cwtwang, - thanks!