When to trim the tremolo

[John Craton]

Here's a topic that, to my surprise, I haven't seen discussed before -- can't even find a thread on this in the archives -- but should be of value to many classical players.

Many composers of mandolin music, at least until relatively recent times, did not specify when to use tremolo, evidently leaving it up to the performer to decide when to employ it. Consequently we hear various interpretations of early classical works, some performers using tremolo very sparingly, others seemingly using it on nearly everything longer than a sixteenth note. (Okay, that's a little hyperbole, but you get my point.) As just one example, compare the various recordings of the Beethoven Sonatina in C. Lajos Mayer tremolos almost all the dotted quarters, whereas Erhart Fietz employs very little tremolo in the piece.

What are your criteria for using tremolo in classical works? Do you follow your basic criteria consistently, or do you find it varying from one performance to another as the spirit moves you? Do you detect a trend between those of the Italian school and those of the German in their use of tremolo?

I have my own thoughts on this, but I felt it would be good to see what others think before codifying my own ideas on interpretation.

[Jim Garber]

This is a large topic touched on in various threads. Part of the application of tremelo comes from style/period of the piece. I would think it has a similar relationship of a violinist using vibrato. More romantic music would ask for it whereas baroque might sound ridiculous and cluttered.

For instance, in a master class I attended a few months ago with Carlo Aonzo, we worked primarily on Vivaldi pieces. I recall that we barely played any tremelo except in the very slow movements where we (as an ensemble) were backing up the soloist.

I too have heard a number of different interpretations of the Beethoven, some using tremelo and some not (and some somewhere in between).

Some of this is open to interpretation by the player, some depends on whether the player is playing solo or is accompanied and some related to the respect for the music itself.

I think there was a rather extensive discussion of some of this in this thread (http://www.mandolincafe.net/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=6;t=11266;hl=beethoven). As far as Beethoven, #is is useful IMHO to be aware that this was not originally meant to be played on the Neapolitan mandolin. That also goes for the Vivaldi as well.

I look fwd to hearing the opinions of others more experienced than I am on this matter.

Jim

[Eugene]

This was being debated in the very earliest literature for the instrument where some advocated it, especially in playing slow pieces written for violin, and some protested it as the gauche trade of the street musician.

German soloists seem as fond of tremolo as Italian soloists, maybe more so nowadays (e.g., Carlo Aonzo uses it sparingly, sometimes not using it even where the likes of Calace specified to). #However, modern German orchestras do not use tremolo. #I find that sound, that of a full plucked orchestra simply going *plunk*, a little odd.

Unless the composer clearly notates where to or not, I am pretty flexible regarding where I apply tremolo. #Ties were often used to indicate tremolo in simplified shorthand, and I am more likely to tremolo tied notes than others. #I usually avoid tremolo in baroque music, but do use it occasionally where I think of it as an ornament. #One of my favorite contrasts refers to the Beethoven sonatina in c minor. #Check out both Alison Stephens's and Richard Walz's recordings of that work. #They each chose to tremolo directly opposite sections from the other and both sound mighty fine.

[vkioulaphides]

Cultural biases seem to diverge fairly sharply. In correspondence with a German mandolinist, and discussing some of my works, I sensed a certain awkward hesitation, a reluctance to speak out in order not to offend me. Was it that she did not like my pieces? I take no offense in people's tastes.

Finally, after extensive (and super, super-polite) evasions, she admitted that she could not bring herself to adhere to the tremolo markings I had notated. "Tremolo sounds, ehm..." she confessed "a bit comical".

Quite au contraire, if you read the introduction to Calace's method, he states upfront that tremolo essentially IS the sound of the mandolin, which he describes with the indescribable phrase dolce fascino. Yes, "fascination" is the English cognate, but I, for example, used to gaze at my infant daughter in quite the Italian sense of fascino, not in the English-sense fascination with which I read e.g.history-books. Or maybe that's just another bias of mine...

I don't think about tremolo; it just happens. What I do play of the classical repertoire is pronouncedly Mediterranean and consequently the dilemma does not trouble me. I just warble on... # http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/wink.gif

[RSW]

Ah, the old tremolo debate, sort of like the vibrato debate in singing or violin playing. Vivaldi wrote for an instrument tuned in 4ths and perhaps played without a plectrum (so did Fred Bacon on the classical banjo and William Foden on the guitar but they could tremolo just fine). I doubt if there is any appropriate place to use the tremolo in Vivaldi's music but I would be tempted in the slow movement of the 'concerto per molti strumenti' simply because it sounds sort of stupid to be picking out the same notes as the violin players who sing their passages with such legato. As for Beethoven (I hope this doesn't spark a new debate with Alex and Eric), his music is much less instrument dependant and all of the mandolin types (shy of the Gibson line up) existed at that time. Why I choose to use the tremolo in the c minor first section as opposed to Ali's preference to the second had to do with the character of these sections. Beethoven himself uses the second section thematic material (major mode) in an 'allegro' fashion in another piece, which gives me an indication how he felt about this. In allegro passages we tend to forgo tremolo for the most part. I find the first part to sound expressively weak when playing with single struck (non-tremolo) notes. The second section is another matter. It is true that Calace, Scivatarro and many (most) of the romantic players used tremolo liberally to the extent that their technique of this device was an asset. Pettine actually used less tremolo than most of his contemporaries. I wouldn't lose any sleep over whether or not to use tremolo. I sort of hate when editors prescribe the use or non-use of tremolo for every phrase. It shouldn't be necessary, the more variation in playing styles and approaches, the better it is for mandolin playing as a whole.

[Bob A]

Well, well. Fools rush in where angels fear to tread.

So much of one's likes and dislikes tend to be a matter of what one is exposed to, at early and impressionable stages of life. Then, too, it is absurd to speak of THE mandolin: there is no other instrument that so adamantly refuses to be standardised. What sounds well and proper on the large-bowled Teutonic instrument does not always transfer easily to a (relatively) tiny Mediterranean bowlback. (Then there's Calace - mine is surprisingly large in the bowl; obviously there's no point in attempting comparisons on almost any basis).

I will never be recorded, for which you might give thanks; I am free to trem or not to trem, as the mood strikes. Not mood alone, either. Some days it works, some days it does not. Half the fun seems to be in exploring various bits of ornament or technique. And it's doubtful that I've ever consciously been able exactly to replicate the way I've played a given piece. A sloppy mind, and tepid technique, combine to make every performance unique, if not (mercifully) memorable. Comical, perhaps, but not, I assure you, intentionally so.

And Beethoven's dead. He'll never know the liberties I've taken.

A rule of thumb from one with many thumbs: the less the sustain, the more the trem.

[RSW]

Think about what the tremolo can do:

1) sustain
2) sustain with crescendo
3) The other meaning of tremolo, which the italian baroque composers used to imitate the tremolo of the voice or organ (like what we call vibrato).
4) infinite variance of speed in producing the tremolo can create affect that gives direction to phrases and emotional quality.
5) The last, but not least, true legato from one note to another. A simple struck note following another will always have a more marked degree of accent than notes that are connected with a well executed tremolo.

6) We all have bad tremolo days, so go straight to G. Leone and Vivaldi.

[John Craton]

I guess it's time to pay the piper and open myself up to the ire of others. My own thoughts on tremolo must begin with the caveat that there is no right or wrong in determining its use. As someone else has pointed out, the debate surrounding tremolo is similar to that of vibrato on violin. (I try to help my students develop an effective vibrato only later to tell them to cut it back when we do early baroque -- really gives some of them fits.) It really comes down to a matter of taste and personal preference.

For myself, I prefer a reserved use of tremolo. But that's just me. It may have to do with my long involvement with early music that has accustomed my ear to a single thin note rendered by a solitary attack. I adore the sound of a "white" voice in early music. Consequently I find an excessive use of tremolo to grow old very quickly. (In one recording I have -- I forget right now who it is performing -- the mandolinist literally uses tremolo on everything but sixteenth notes. While obviously some people love the sound, I personally find it annoying. But then, if we all enjoyed the same things, there wouldn't be a gazillion different genres, would there?)

That being said, I do feel that the use of tremolo for sustaining long notes and especially for effecting dynamics is indeed appropriate. But using it elsewhere, though not wrong, is personally not something I particularly enjoy hearing. (Who would argue with Kreisler's heavy vibrato and romantic interpretations of early classical works?)

Or perhaps it's just due to my somewhat weak tremolo technique http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/smile.gif

[PlayerOf8]

Way back in the day when I was just getting started, my teacher used tremolo even when we was tuning. It didn't matter if it was classical or a gypsy Sicilian tune - everything had tremolo. He said it was a great way to learn how to keep time. Every lesson would end with 15 minutes of playing scales with tremolo. It took a long time for me to change some of those bad habits.

George

[vkioulaphides]

Why, George... I even tremolo thinking of the mandolin! http://www.mandolincafe.net/iB_html/non-cgi/emoticons/biggrin.gif

(But would not do so indiscriminately while playing EVERYthing.)

Cheers,

Victor