View Full Version : Mystery So Cal Music Co mandolin
I inherited a few string instruments from my Grandmother, who was a classical guitarist. Included was a beautiful mandolin that I would love to know more about. It has a label that says "The Bradbury" So Cal Music Co Los Angeles inside. Mother of pearl inlay, an old repair on the neck, but in really good condition. Her other guitars were all pre-1965 Martins, I am wondering if this might be a Martin made mandolin?
Jim Garber
Mar-28-2010, 9:48pm
Nah, not Martin. it looks very much like 1890s Washburns, so it is a quality instrument. Bradley must have been a house brand of the SoCal music store. It sort of resembles a style 76 but has more ribs (I think) tho Washburn sometimes put maple stringers on a single rib to make it look like more ribs than there really were.
allenhopkins
Mar-28-2010, 11:01pm
According to Mike Longworth's book Martin Guitars: A History :
"Southern California Music Co....was especially interested in instruments made of Hawaiian koa wood. Martin made guitars and ukuleles for them under the Southern California brand."
Longworth then lists three models of koa-wood Style 0 guitars, of which Martin made 261 instruments for SCMC in the period 1917-19. No mandolins mentioned.
delsbrother
Mar-28-2010, 11:19pm
Just out of curiosity, did your grandmother know the Bickfords? They were influential musicians in LA at the time that music store was around.
So, not a Martin, but I am still really interested in finding out more about it. Even a more solid date and manufacturer would be great.
Don't know if my Grandma knew the Bickfords, although the name sounds familiar. She lived in the San Francisco bay area and Marin for most of her adult life. Gave lessons to Santana and a few other interesting names waaaaay back when.
Jim Garber
Mar-29-2010, 12:36pm
So, not a Martin, but I am still really interested in finding out more about it. Even a more solid date and manufacturer would be great.
I am not sure how much closer I can get. Get a hold of the Washburn Book and check out the models of bowlbacks. I would say Washburn for 99% sure. Grandma's looks like models made 1892 or so tho I can't quite determine exactly which one it matched. If anyone else can get more details, I would like to hear or see.
I will see if I have any pictures of similar ones from my files.
barney 59
Mar-29-2010, 12:55pm
I have seen a couple of So.Cal Music Co. guitars and they had features that only Larson did.
allenhopkins
Mar-29-2010, 1:10pm
I have seen a couple of So.Cal Music Co. guitars and they had features that only Larson did.
The Larson brothers undoubtedly built for SCMC; I saw a Larson-built SCMC guitar auctioned on eBay a couple years ago. Martin did as well, as Longworth documents. SCSM also sold Martin-built guitars under the "Nunes" brand. Many of the large music stores such as Wurlitzer, Keystone State Music, Ditson etc. would have manufacturers build instruments for them with "store brand" labels. The Larsons were near-unique in that they never sold "Larson brand" guitars, but marketed their products under names such as Prairie State, Stetson, Maurer, Euphonon, Stahl etc.
xntric
Mar-30-2010, 6:55pm
Curious . . . "Bradbury" was a big name in So Cal in the 1890s, at least in mining and real estate, not sure of any musical connection. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradbury_Building
Paul Hostetter
Mar-31-2010, 4:16pm
I am not sure how much closer I can get. Get a hold of the Washburn Book and check out the models of bowlbacks. I would say Washburn for 99% sure. Grandma's looks like models made 1892 or so tho I can't quite determine exactly which one it matched. If anyone else can get more details, I would like to hear or see.
Martin changed some aesthetic details when they built guitars for SCMC, so it would come as no surprise that L&H did the same. The model 76 didn't have pearl around the border, it had wood marquetry. And its ribs were alternating maple and rosewood. A few in the 78-80-and-up level had the fancy rosette and/or the snail margin, but had fancy pickguards. Seems to me that L&H concocted a special model or so just for SCMC. I agree it's 1890s, and don't see how it could be dated closer than that.
I hope that headstock repair is holding.
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=56801&d=1269832015
I also wonder what the original tuners were.
So, not a Martin, but I am still really interested in finding out more about it. Even a more solid date and manufacturer would be great.
Don't know if my Grandma knew the Bickfords, although the name sounds familiar. She lived in the San Francisco bay area and Marin for most of her adult life. Gave lessons to Santana and a few other interesting names waaaaay back when.
I also have a mandolin which has a b/w paper sticker inside with the same text: "The Bradbury So. Cal. Music Co. Los Angeles." My sister bought it at a yard sale many years, ago. It is definitely a player, and I have even recorded with it, until one of the tuning gears cracked. I had been unable to find a replacement set of tuners locally, because of an obsolete configuration (spacing). Today, I saw that Stewart-MacDonald sells mando tuner sets for "pre-1925." This prompted me to search the web with the text of the sticker inside my instrument, and the only reference I found is this dialog about your mandolin. My model has the same general construction as yours, but different pick guard and decoration. I am convinced that mine has the original tuners, now almost a coffee color, plain, "matte" oval keys. I would also like to learn more about the age and history of these mandolins.
Schlegel
May-06-2012, 3:25pm
Adam please post a picture...pics are essential if you want any good info.
barney 59
May-06-2012, 5:16pm
Yes post a picture. A side view of the neck would be helpful. Larson had a way that they did the binding on the neck that was pretty unique to them (at the time). Unfortunately they didn't do it every time.
Jim Garber
May-07-2012, 7:25am
It is definitely a player, and I have even recorded with it, until one of the tuning gears cracked. I had been unable to find a replacement set of tuners locally, because of an obsolete configuration (spacing). Today, I saw that Stewart-MacDonald sells mando tuner sets for "pre-1925."
I believe that the Stew-Mac tuners refer to pre 1925 Gibson post spacing. I highly doubt that they will fit on your mandolin tho there is a possibility if yours are not inset tuners. If the spacing is exactly the same then it might be possible to cut the plates down to fit in the inset but then the posts will be very high on the headstock. The best thing would be either to find an old replacement set from a trashed mandolin by the same maker or else just replace that gear,
I have a Washburn bowlback that has the riveted tuners and that may also present some problems. Everything is fixable -- it just depends on how complicated the work would be.
Yes, I agree with those folks above: post some pics of your mandolin.
Yes post a picture. A side view of the neck would be helpful. Larson had a way that they did the binding on the neck that was pretty unique to them (at the time). Unfortunately they didn't do it every time.
Here are some pics of "The Bradbury" I have.860738607486075860768607786078
Thanks for the info, Jim. I would have no idea how to find the gear itself. My local parts supplier here in Phoenix did not have any gears that would fit this model. And as this thread is the only reference on the entire internet I have found for "The Bradbury" mando, I am not hopeful about finding a mando by the same maker....unless someone can tell me who that maker is? I do not think my tuners are "inset," though perhaps someone can give me more info, now that I have posted some pics.86079
Jim Garber
May-07-2012, 2:37pm
Headstock resembles many of the American conservatory mandolins made and marketed by Lyon & Healy. L&H manufactured many of these so you may be in luck. Those tuners look a little different than ones I am used to but I can't really say why. I would not be surprised if L&H used lots of different suppliers over the years. Measure carefully the post diameters and distance from post centers to each other. Hopefully you can find someone who has a set that would fit. I can check my parts box also.
After a few searches I can say pretty much that I doubt SCMC made any of the instruments they sold but more likely were a retail outlet or distributor who dealt with quite a number of different suppliers. Even from this period i have seen Bradbury bowlback mandolins that look like they were made by Vega.
Here are the two measurements. The distance, center-post to center-post is just shy of an inch: 2.46 centimeters by my ruler; post diameter: 0.24"?8608286083
I have found this link with a picture that shows a mandolin that it precisely identical to mine, minus the "Bradbury So. Cal." label inside:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Antique-Musical-Instruments-2370/2008/11/Lyon-Healy-Ideal-mandolin.htm
Jim Garber
May-07-2012, 8:26pm
I checked my catalogs and your Bradbury resembles an American Conservatory #601 from a L&H catalog dated 1909. Here is a scan of the catalog photo + description.
I checked my catalogs and your Bradbury resembles an American Conservatory #601 from a L&H catalog dated 1909. Here is a scan of the catalog photo + description.
Indeed, the picture and description match my instrument nearly exactly, except maybe the "nickel plated patent head"? (not sure what that means...the tuners?); the "White" pieces between the ribs (mine are light wood); and the "Corded Inlaying."
My instrument actually looks exactly like the "MONTGOMERY WARD & CO, CHICAGO" that Kei posted 3 pics of in this thread:
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?52370-L-Ricca-Bowlback
Mine still has the "Wrist Rest and Tail-Piece" - impressive, considering that it simply snaps on.
Sounds like L&H might have made variations of this model, sold by various suppliers around the country?
Thank much, Jim. It is a delight to see this ad and to learn more about the possible origin of this little mando.
Let me know if you think you can help me replace the broken gear or tuner sets. Any chance that the existing L&H company might still have parts? Not likely, I would guess.
Appreciatively,
Adam
Pete Summers
May-07-2012, 10:27pm
FWIW, which is probably nothing, there is a well known Bradbury Piano Company started in the mid-19th Century, which is still in business, I believe. I do not know if there is any connection with mandolins or other instruments.
Jim Garber
May-08-2012, 7:56am
Any chance that the existing L&H company might still have parts? Not likely, I would guess.
Check out their site (http://www.lyonhealy.com). I doubt they would have any parts or even interest in helping you. You would hardly know that they made anything but harps. They seemed to wipe all mention of any other instrument. of course, they are marketing to harpists and I suppose that a harpist might not want to know that the maker made lowly guitars and mandolins among other things.
It is strange how some companies have willful amnesia when it comes to their history. I found an old Hammond accordion amp and contacted the company for more info. They had none at all and were not interested. I imagine that many companies just threw out all their records from the old days. It is up to us instrument historians to dredge up the facts.
Check out their site (http://www.lyonhealy.com). I doubt they would have any parts or even interest in helping you.
I wrote to Lyon & Healy. Here is their reply:
Thank you for your kind email. We no longer service any instruments other than harps so we are sorry that we can be of no service to you. I wish the best of luck in getting your instrument repaired.
Best regards,
Stephen Fritzmann
National Sales Manager
LYON & HEALY HARPS
Jim Garber
May-09-2012, 7:55am
I will check my parts box and see what I have.
barney 59
May-09-2012, 9:26am
There isn't anything about that mandolin that would lead me to think that it was made by the Larson Bros. Larson did indeed supply at least some instruments to So. Cal.Music Co. and Larson had an almost unbelievable number of variations to their instruments with presentation models as well as student models, so who knows, but I think Jim Garber is closer to the mark. Michael Holmes has listed
"Bradbury" as a "Kholer and Chase" brand --pre 1920. I am unfamiliar with that name.
Jim Garber
May-09-2012, 9:35am
Michael Holmes has listed "Bradbury" as a "Kholer and Chase" brand --pre 1920. I am unfamiliar with that name.
Kohler and Chase (http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist/kandc.html) was a music store and had pianos made under their name and under the Bbradbury brand. See Pete Summers' post above.