Pick Noise

[Mandowan]

Pardon me if this is completely obvious. I've been having a blast muddling along with my mandolin the past couple months, but one thing I haven't been able to shake is this annoying, loud 'click' the pick makes sometimes, especially on the thicker G and D strings. All the advice I've been able to find is 'hold the pick more loosely' which I'm not sure is possible since it's already just shy of slipping out of my hand, and 'make sure you're holding it parallel to the strings,' which I think I'm doing but I suppose I can't be certain of without a camcorder.

As an aside, I can reduce or even eliminate this noise by actually tightening my grip on the pick, but I'm reluctant to do that since it goes against all the prevailing wisdom. Is it even remotely possible that I'm gripping the pick too loosely?

Thanks.

[mandolirius]

Pardon me if this is completely obvious. I've been having a blast muddling along with my mandolin the past couple months, but one thing I haven't been able to shake is this annoying, loud 'click' the pick makes sometimes, especially on the thicker G and D strings. All the advice I've been able to find is 'hold the pick more loosely' which I'm not sure is possible since it's already just shy of slipping out of my hand, and 'make sure you're holding it parallel to the strings,' which I think I'm doing but I suppose I can't be certain of without a camcorder.

As an aside, I can reduce or even eliminate this noise by actually tightening my grip on the pick, but I'm reluctant to do that since it goes against all the prevailing wisdom. Is it even remotely possible that I'm gripping the pick too loosely?

Thanks.

I'm a bit confused. I've usually heard the term "pick click" used to describe the sound of the pick hitting the fretboard, which has nothing to do with how loosely you hold the pick. Could it be that you're digging a bit deeper on the G & D strings, causing you to hit the fretboard with your pick?

[Doug Hoople]

Pick click comes in two forms: 1) the sound of the pick striking the string at the moment the note is sounded, and 2) the sound of the pick making contact with the string in advance of actually sounding the note.

2) is completely unnecessary, and can be eliminated with attention and good right-hand exercise.

1) can be diminished by changing the angle of attack, but it can't be eliminated altogether. If you get your stroke right, the click will be fairly faint and almost completely subordinated to the sound of the string sounding the note.

[Mike Snyder]

The pick touching the string will make a "chirp" sound. It's worse with some picks than others. We assume that "click" is as mandolirious describes in post #2. What pick, what strings, what mandolin are you using? Angle of attack influences this pick noise, too, so you might have a pal observe your pick angle. I had a short infatuation, recently, with a very fat pick that was terribly noisy, but gave me a tone I liked. Pick options are wide and varied, and easy to read via the search function on the cafe. Tell us about your instrument, strings, pick, and what music you are playing. More experienced players than I may have suggestions.

[AlanN]

You're already holding the pick loosely, which is good. Vary the angle of attack, I use a slight front-end angle down to the floor. John McGann suggests drawing tone by 'delivering the pick to the string'. Somewhat oblique, but what I think this means is don't bang the string, but rather finesse/coax good tone by a gentle yet firm pick stroke. (John, corn slap me if I got all that wrong!)

[Martin Whitehead]

The only time I've experienced pick click is when I'm picking too close to the fretboard extension and hit my pick on it. But that seems rather obvious and I'll bet that's not your problem. One solution is to wear earplugs when you play so you can't hear anything! ;)

[250sc]

Try other picks. I've tried picks that were unacceptable due to the sound of the pick against the strings.

[Martin Whitehead]

Or just try a different finger. Sometimes if it's way up there I can dig it out with my pinky finger. It works best if you haven't trimed your nails for a few days. . . . oh, I just reread the subject. It's pick N-O-I-S-E. :redface:

(Sorry I couldn't resist that.)

[Jim Broyles]

Since you say the noise is reduced by holding the pick more tightly, my guess is that you are slapping the strings with the pick. The could mean too much pick is sticking out or you are indeed holding it too loosely. You need a firm grip, but loose hand/finger/wrist muscles. The other possibility is that your pick is too thin, or made of a hard material which clicks before the note sounds. Ivory, bone and hard acrylic picks such as the Big Stubby do this for me. The Dunlop 207 and 208 do it too, for me. Try a celluloid or Ultex pick and see if it still happens.

[CES]

Agree with simply trying different picks and adjusting your approach as starters. If you're hearing click from the fretboard extension, then a modification may be in order (ie, have someone experienced amputate that sucker). I tend to get more pick noise with thin but stiff picks (thinking Tortex .79s, which I don't use anymore b/c they're just too thin for me as I've grown as a player). It's probably impossible to completely alleviate (except for the amputation scenario above), but almost certainly modifiable.

I've found that I didn't mind pick noise until I got my Flatiron 1-N, which doesn't have an extension. Two things have happened...first, I think I've reduced my click on my other mandos as I've adjusted my pick depth some. Secondly, the click I do get is now driving me nuts!! There may be surgery in my Kentucky's future!!

[300win]

Blue-Chip pick = no pick 'chirp or noise', scooped fingerboard extension or no fingerboard extension = no 'pick click'. Simple as that.

[Jeff May]

I think a lot of people have this issue when they first start on the mando, especially if they've come from a guitar playing background. I know I did, and I've seen it mentioned a number of times on the Cafe by newly converted guitar players. This kind of pick click is mostly absent from guitar playing and drove me nuts when I first started. Try different picks. The Blue Chip seems to make less noise for me. The small black Wegens were pretty good too. Mainly though, I think it's a matter of practice and getting your mandolin picking technique down. I hardly notice it any more except when I'm pressing to play something I don't have down yet, which seems to indicate it's at least partially related to technique. Either that or I've just gotten used to it over time. Just keep playing.

[Doug Hoople]

You're already holding the pick loosely, which is good. Vary the angle of attack, I use a slight front-end angle down to the floor. John McGann suggests drawing tone by 'delivering the pick to the string'. Somewhat oblique, but what I think this means is don't bang the string, but rather finesse/coax good tone by a gentle yet firm pick stroke. (John, corn slap me if I got all that wrong!)

There's a fine line here, actually.

If you finesse it too closely, you might actually contact the string prior to the actual striking of the note, and that sets up a pure pick noise completely independent of the note. It will drive you absolutely nuts.

I make sure I keep the pick far enough away from the string to avoid contact until the time for sounding.

[AlanN]

Yah, I guess it's a very just-there thing by now, I hardly think about it. All I know is when I picked Thile's Dude one time, I banged the G string, ham-fisted hack that I am :))
His action is so low and his attack so perfect, my neanderthal approach just buzzed the heck out of it.

Another important aspect is pick follow-through. Gotta have it.

[JeffD]

Blue-Chip pick = no pick 'chirp or noise', scooped fingerboard extension or no fingerboard extension = no 'pick click'. Simple as that.

There is truth to that.

[Willie]

Mandowan...I promise you that one way to stop "pick click" is to use a nylon pick...I make my own and I make them round and there isn`t any points to hit the fret board either...Nylon stock can be bought at a lot of places in different thickness`s...I like a round pick because the way I play they tend to turn in my fingers so I never have to worry about playing on the flat side of the pick, the nylon also maks a soft mellow sound....Good luck....Willie

[Doug Hoople]

Mandowan...I promise you that one way to stop "pick click" is to use a nylon pick...I make my own and I make them round and there isn`t any points to hit the fret board either.

Let me try a counter-suggestion.

Find the noisiest pick you can find. Try then to minimize pick noise through your technique. Once you've done that, then you should look for a pick that gives you the sound you want.

You shouldn't be selecting a pick to compensate for a problem in your technique.

[Mike Snyder]

I've got extra fat V picks. I'll send you one if you want to hear a chirpy pick. Great tone, bad chirp.

[Mandowan]

Wow, lots of great feedback. Yeah, I play about a half inch below the end of the fret board, so I really think this is the inexcusable chirp/click described as type 2 by Doug Hoople. 'Slapping' seems like a plausible explanation, knowing me.

I didn't give a lot of thought to pick selection, the mandolin is my first stringed instrument after a youth misspent on piano, bells, and percussion. I basically randomly threw in the golden gate 'dawg style' pick with my order from themandolinstore.com. I'll definitely look at other picks in addition to working on my right hand, but Doug makes a good point about not using hardware to fix a software problem (sorry, tech nerd). Worst case, I do have some ear plugs. I could even put on my headphones and listen to a good player while I practice. :grin:

Thanks for the tips, this forum is indispensable!

[Jim Broyles]

Well, that pick is celluloid so you should not get any chirp, and it's round enough not to clack. My verdict - too loose or too much pick sticking out.

[300win]

Wow, lots of great feedback. Yeah, I play about a half inch below the end of the fret board, so I really think this is the inexcusable chirp/click described as type 2 by Doug Hoople. 'Slapping' seems like a plausible explanation, knowing me.

I didn't give a lot of thought to pick selection, the mandolin is my first stringed instrument after a youth misspent on piano, bells, and percussion. I basically randomly threw in the golden gate 'dawg style' pick with my order from themandolinstore.com. I'll definitely look at other picks in addition to working on my right hand, but Doug makes a good point about not using hardware to fix a software problem (sorry, tech nerd). Worst case, I do have some ear plugs. I could even put on my headphones and listen to a good player while I practice. :grin:

Thanks for the tips, this forum is indispensable!

I've got to ask you. even though you added 'grin', how is listening to someone else play when you practise going to benefit you ? Since you are already a musician you know that only one thing is going to help in your endeavor to learn, hard work, but learning to play an instrument is the most fun hard work that I know of. Since you are just beginning, I suggest you don't get too bogged down in all the tech. stuff just yet. If you do it might not be as much fun as you are wanting it to be.

[eadg145]

I strongly suspect angle of attack is a major influence on the annoying sound being described. I say this because even with the same strings and the same picks, one of the mandolins I play (but have trouble with holding) makes a tremendous pick noise even though my others do not. The only difference here is the way I'm holding the mandolin, which translates to the angle of attack of the pick.

[...and Master of None]

Or just try a different finger. Sometimes if it's way up there I can dig it out with my pinky finger. It works best if you haven't trimed your nails for a few days. . . . oh, I just reread the subject. It's pick N-O-I-S-E. :redface:

(Sorry I couldn't resist that.)
I don't know whether to feel cheated or superior after I struggled valiantly and resisted the temptation...

[fishtownmike]

Maybe you need a thicker gauge pick? You didn't say what gauge your using. Holding pick to loose can cause this sound too. Sometimes i use this technique when i desire a certain effect.

[hank]

I've notice even great players in their training tapes make pick noise. You hear yours and others up close(like in the training tapes) but usually not from a distance. The volume of the pick noise isn't loud enough to be heard with a little distance from the picker. Yes it can be reduced with technique and pick material but I always hear it to some degree if I'm close enough and there isn't other louder noise(other instruments) to drown it out. YMMV but that's my opinion and I'm pickin to it. :whistling:

[Martin Whitehead]

Dear Master, Thanks. I was beginning to think that I had crossed the lines of social propriety and everyone was picking, er, snubbing their nose at me!

[JeffD]

Another thing to keep in mind, when playing accoustically: I don't think the pick click is not projected far. The person behind the instrument hears it the most.

If you are playing with a mike and it is getting into the mix, I would think there would be a mike placement that would minimize this.

[Mandowan]

I've got to ask you. even though you added 'grin', how is listening to someone else play when you practise going to benefit you ? Since you are already a musician you know that only one thing is going to help in your endeavor to learn, hard work, but learning to play an instrument is the most fun hard work that I know of. Since you are just beginning, I suggest you don't get too bogged down in all the tech. stuff just yet. If you do it might not be as much fun as you are wanting it to be.

Well, I was joking. ;) I like listening to myself, however cringe-worthy that may be at times!

So I think I've got the 'click' mostly under control, it seems to have been a combination of factors that mostly relate back to lazy right-hand technique. Choked up on the pick, tightened my grip (not too much!), and even fixing my posture when holding the instrument all seem to make a difference. I can still hear it a little if I'm listening for it, so I try not to do that.

[...and Master of None]

Dear Master, Thanks. I was beginning to think that I had crossed the lines of social propriety and everyone was picking, er, snubbing their nose at me!

Well...you probably have...but we who regularly cross the lines of social propriety must hold our noses...er...heads...high and stick together!

[wsugai]

... 'make sure you're holding it parallel to the strings,'...

The pick, that is. I always thought that one held the pick perpendicular to the strings when playing.

[Jim Broyles]

Most players rotate the pick so it is not parallel to the strings. This is how there is such a thing as lefty and righty bevels. I advise to hold the pick so that the plane upon which the pick lies is exactly perpendicular to the plane going though ALL the strings AND that the pick's plane includes the entire string not just one point. If you allow the pick to come to rest on a string during your normal picking motion and slide the pick in toward the mandolin top, the whole pick surface slides along the string, not just an edge. It is so hard to put into words what a picture will illustrate immediately, but I hope you get the idea.

[hank]

Another way to explain this is to think if you held your mandolin horizontal the pick would be parallel to the strings but when you raise the neck upward the angle described above happens. You still move the pick through the string as though it is parallel but the pick is angled from parallel. If this is clear as mud I suggest you get Mike Marshall's Mandolin fundamentals for all players. Mr. Marshall is very good at splaning these sort of details.

[Jim Broyles]

Well this is exactly what I do not do. My pick hits the strings NOT angled from the parallel. I realize that some players advocate the angle you are describing, but I do not. If my mandolin is angled up, so is my picking hand.

[hank]

Uh oh. My bad. The explanation was Mike Marshalls method to get the pick angle without putting tension in your hand and gripe. Sounds like I got it wrong on what you were saying. Maybe your suggestion of a picture(drawing, diagram) might help me visualize your technique. I like Blue Chip CT55's with a very lose gripe with an angle to the strings from the upward neck angle. Your method probably came natural to you as mine did to me. I'm always open to suggestion though. Like I said earlier in this thread I make some pick noise. I've been working on some bad habits with my left hand so now would be a good time to take a hard look at my right hand technique as well.

[Gelsenbury]

Since you say the noise is reduced by holding the pick more tightly, my guess is that you are slapping the strings with the pick. The could mean too much pick is sticking out or you are indeed holding it too loosely. You need a firm grip, but loose hand/finger/wrist muscles. The other possibility is that your pick is too thin, or made of a hard material which clicks before the note sounds. Ivory, bone and hard acrylic picks such as the Big Stubby do this for me. The Dunlop 207 and 208 do it too, for me. Try a celluloid or Ultex pick and see if it still happens.

I'm quoting this post because I found it especially useful, but others have made great points too. Gotta love the search function. I was getting annoyed about the same thing the other day - too much clicking just before the note sounds, ironically reduced by tightening my grip on the pick. I use triangular 1.14 mm Ultex picks.

Slapping on the strings - yes, that's possible. I'm sure I can improve this with more practice towards a better attack angle.

Too much pick sticking out - I've actually recently increased the amount of pick that I leave sticking out of my hand because the fleshy part of my thumb kept brushing against the strings and creating unwanted noise. Perhaps I'm now digging slightly to deep into the strings by accident.

Holding the pick too loosely - I don't think it's that in my case. I can reduce pick click by tightening my grip, but I often see in instructional videos how the pick is supposed to give and tilt quite a lot when striking the strings. When I tighten things up to reduce pick noise, this no longer happens.

Thank you for the useful posts!