vintage snakehead vs. new

[dan in va]

Researching the vintage snakeheads seems to be showing me that I can't afford one. So I'm wondering if an econo Silverangel or Morris oval hole modern snakehead version could be as good as the real deal.

I'd like to see your thoughts here...under $2k please.

Thanks in advance....dan

[Mike Snyder]

Those are two different breeds of cat. Too many choices with those parameters. What genre of music are you going to play? Old timey, ITM- a good oval hole. Bluegrass- need a F hole to cut at a jam. Think outside the box?- Then it doesn't matter. My feelings are that the most versatile mandolin is an F hole. At or below 2 large, you're in the Gibson Jam Master, Weber Gallatin range. Econos from Silverangel and Bulldog look REAL good. Streach that 2 grand a bit, you're in range of truly great instruments. Used instruments will get you the greatest value per dollar. The classifieds at the 'ol cafe are your resource, use them.

[Jill McAuley]

I think Pomeroy A's are great value for the $$ and what with the short scale neck on them more similar tonally to the old Gibsons than the Weber Gallatin A's are - the Weber Gallatin A's have the longer scale neck, giving them a more "hybrid" sound. Here's a nice looking A-2 that Don has up on his website now and it comes in price wise under $2K:

http://www.pomeroyinstruments.com/gallery/v/A-2/

Cheers,
Jill

[dan in va]

Thanks for writing. This for all that other non-bluegrass music. I'm satisfied with an '86 KM-1000 for bluegrass.

It seems the Gibson snakeheads are all over the place in tone and condition. In some ways these may be lesser mandolins than their F models, and for the money the vintage ones are going for, maybe some of the small makers could build one for me that's even better than the average vintage snakehead.

I can't argue with the vintage vibe, but could it be that new are being made at least as well as Gibson, but with correct truss rods and X braced tops, without being a Gil, Dude, Nugget, or other high end maker's pedigree? Maybe even for under $2K?!

Please understand, I'm not talking down the fine vintage stuff or meaning to be irreverent.

And yes, the Pomeroy is very appealing.

[danb]

You can normally find an Ajr snakehead under $2k.

[mrmando]

Bill Bussmann of Old Wave makes killer oval-hole mandolins. So does Peter Coombe of Australia. Also look at Herb Taylor and Gavin Baird.

I can't guarantee any of those being under $2K, but you might get lucky and find a used one.

[Mike Snyder]

Gail Hester, Mike Black............but not under 2G.
Those two make an A4 exact clone.

[Rob Gerety]

Or, consider a paddle head.

[dan in va]

It could be a taste thing, but the paddle heads never suited me and I really prefer the adjustability/strength of truss rods. The 1 1/8" nut and deep neck of the snakeheads suits my left hand also.

It seems that getting much over $2K is putting me back in the vintage price range also.

But maybe a modern builder could make a better mando anyway, with correct truss rod, X braced top, radiused board and such.

[John Rosett]

Dan-
You should check out a Collings MT-0. I have not been a fan of the modern hybrid oval hole/raised fingerboard design, but I played one of these recently that really knocked me out!

[sgarrity]

But maybe a modern builder could make a better mando anyway, with correct truss rod, X braced top, radiused board and such.

Why is it that those specs you listed are "correct"? There are thousands and thousands of instruments out there without truss rods. With a scale length as short as the mandolin's, many builders will tell you that an adjustable truss rod is really unnecessary. Many builders install them on their mandolins because it makes the buying public "feel" more comfortable. But they really aren't necessary. Martin didn't start adding adjustable truss rods to their guitars until some time in the 1970s if memory serves me correctly. All I'm trying to say is don't discount a good instrument just because it might lack an adjustable rod.

Old Wave ovals are great mandolins that have a graphite truss rod and x-braced top. There is a Weber Gallatin at the Mandolin Store that is under your $2k mark. Watch the classifieds too. Nice stuff shows up all the time. As for vintage Gibsons, the snakeheads tend to be more consistent but I've found that I'd always want an approval period or the ability to play one before buying. Enjoy the hunt!

[mandroid]

I have a paddle head A4 Gibson with a truss rod,

the 2 are not mutually exclusive, so in other words you don't need to find a snakehead to have a truss rod in the neck.

I think mine is from '22 ..

[mandotool]

here's one to consider..http://www.gbase.com/gear/ode-0-1970-dark-cherry

its a 1970 Ode A model-0
many were produced under the supervision of R.L Givens...
they can be strong players and are often under valued...
Just my 2 cents...i have no financial interest..
Best of luck..

[dan in va]

Yes, I do indeed like a correctly installed trussrod and prefer to stay away from rodless necks. I've been there and done that with both, and don't wanna do either again:

*The was a mid 1970's Martin A in excellent condition with warped neck that was hard to note. The frets weren't properly spaced either...maybe it was made by management when the concrete union was trying to take over.

*And then there was the 1923 A4 with the trussrod that would bow the neck more when tightened enough. So true about how those pre-war Gibson rods were flexed bass-ackwards.

Yes, there are the '21 and '22 Gibson mandos with paddleheads and rods. But the paddles are hard on my eyes and wider necks hard on my left hand. Yes, there were the A Jr's with 1 1/8" necks and no rods. And I don't doubt that most rodless necks are straight, but I kinda like adjustability that a good rod can offer.

It's so true that I seek out the comfort zone when looking for mandos....eye comfort, hand comfort, piggybank comfort, and peace of mind comfort. My spending mony isn't what it used to be these days, so I appreciate the knowledge and experience shared here. There's so much here that helps me so much.

And thanks for the Ode and Collings oval hole mentions. They're nice...maybe I'll warm up to them.

dan

[woodwizard]

I like the way the paddle head looks. I also like the way the snakehead looks. Everyone has their opinion and preferences. the paddle head was not a show stopper for me. My 1919 A4 paddle head has perfect action, plays like butter and sounds sweet and I have a friend with a 1915 blackface A4 that plays and sounds sweet. Thery don't have trussrods and don't need em. IMHO

[dan in va]

Big correction to my last post - that was a '23 Gibson F4 that had the bad trussrod.

Yes, a big part of instruments seems to be about aesthetics. It would be nice to be immune to that.

[woodwizard]

The main thing is ... how does it sound and make you feel? If it speaks to you ... go for it.

[MandoNicity]

I'm sure there are exceptions, but I have never had a problem with a neck that had no truss rod, and this goes for vintage as well as new instruments that I have played or owned. YMMV

[mrmando]

There's always this (http://newjersey.craigslist.org/msg/1637488447.html). I've seen a picture and it ain't real purty ... but it's a vintage truss-rodded snakehead for $2K.

[Capt. E]

Here is a 1921 A with a trussrod on Ebay right now. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220574602436&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
Another one just sold from this same seller for less than $1200 (new bridge, original finish, some new frets, fully setup, with original case).

These early trussrod paddlehead A's can be a great deal.

[Rob Gerety]

Sounds to me that you know pretty much exactly what you want. Probably won't be happy till you get it. Maybe patience while you fatten up the account and keep your eye out for a good used mando that meets your specs and if nothing turns up have one built.

[dan in va]

Bob, it's really starting to play out the way you posted. But there is so much that I don't know and the board is a good resource. I'm still in the hunt for a snakehead, but leaning toward, say, a Pomeroy made in that style.

Thanks...dan

[Capt. E]

I have to say the first and only snakehead I have played, a '23 A, was a beautiful instrument. Tone and playability was top notch. Sold for $3000, all original with pickguard and case and only small repairs over the years. I would have snatched it up if I had had the money.

[fatt-dad]

There are mandolins with truss rods and there are mandolins with adjustible truss rods. Are you only interested in those with the adjustment? As long as there is proper reinforcement, I'd not worry whether I could personally take a wrench to a mandolin (all three of my mandolins don't have any adjustment).

I'd seriously look at Old Wave or Collings ovals. I'd call Gail Hester too (not too sure of her pricing, however).

I'd call Dave Cohen and get one of his oval hole mandolins, but they are over 2K. I've played a bunch of his mandolins and they are GREAT!

f-d

[Tom C]

Older ones may need work. It may be the action, couple of frets up the neck that sound dead, to hump in fretboad, bad fretts..etc and then costmetic issues ..finish, binding..etc. If you buy a new one, you know it's all good. But I know there is a feeling one gets having an old Gibson.

[Capt. E]

Older ones may need work. It may be the action, couple of frets up the neck that sound dead, to hump in fretboad, bad fretts..etc and then costmetic issues ..finish, binding..etc. If you buy a new one, you know it's all good. But I know there is a feeling one gets having an old Gibson.

You are right that there is a kind of security in having a brand new instrument. Old Gibsons can require regular tlc. Look how many modifications some players such as Sam Bush have done on their old Gibsons. One good reason to buy a modern mandolin. Another reason I would be reluctant to buy anything without playing first.

[Rob Gerety]

There is nothing quite like an old Gibson all fixed up and running on all cylinders. If it were me - with my personal taste - I would definitely be looking for an old gibson - or a modern build with a short neck (not Collings or Weber etc which have long necks). Probably Old Wave or Hester etc. The long neck really changes the tone in a big way away from what I am looking for.

[Jeremy Darrow]

You can normally find an Ajr snakehead under $2k.

This worth repeating. I have a '24 Ajr snakehead that is a tremendous mandolin. I paid a little over $2,000 for it, but is in incredibly good condition, and had all of its original parts.

[Rob Gerety]

I have a '24 Ajr snakehead that is a tremendous mandolin. I paid a little over $2,000 for it, but is in incredibly good condition, and had all of its original parts.

Hang on to that puppy. Its not going to go down in value - that is for sure. I bet its a lovely mandolin.