picking accuracy

[Horsefarmer]

What do You folks out there think about picking accuracy. to anchor with You little finger when picking or just free hand it?

[Greg H.]

Free hand it by far... Actually my hand tends to float along the top of bridge. If you have a pickguard then I suppose you can anchor you pinky if it helps (if you don't have a pickguard, however, the you're going to end up with a hole where the finish used to be.

[Rob Gerety]

Free hand. No plant. Takes some practice.

[JeffD]

What do You folks out there think about picking accuracy.

I am in favor of it! :)


The arguements for and against planting rage on, in several threads (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?60136-planting-brushing-free-hand-bridge-rest). Some folks sheepishly admit to partial planting, as if it they were caught stealing cookies, (I just rest my hand on the cookie jar...).

The important thing is the accuracy, getting all the notes. Then getting the notes with the rhythm and relative emphasis you want. If that takes some planting now and again, I have trouble saying thats a bad thing.

[300win]

whichever way works the best for each individual, there is no 'RIGHT' way, or 'WRONG' way, thats all a bunch of hype.

[Rogapesh]

I have recently started picking. I can't seem to do it without having my pinkie glued under the bridge.

[Rob Gerety]

whichever way works the best for each individual, there is no 'RIGHT' way, or 'WRONG' way, thats all a bunch of hype.

True enough - but there is an easier way and a harder way and the easy way isn't always what seems easy at the beginning. Denying that is all a bunch of hype.:) Ahhhh- the battle rages!

[300win]

True enough - but there is an easier way and a harder way and the easy way isn't always what seems easy at the beginning. Denying that is all a bunch of hype.:) Ahhhh- the battle rages!
No, I disagree. Playing a mandolin, guitar, banjo etc. whatever. There is no "ONE' way to do it, whats easy for some might be hard for others. The end effect is the main thing no matter how you get there. It's like swinging a hammer driving a nail, yea it looks like there is just one way to do it, but everybody basically holds it a little differant, but as long as you get the nail drove who cares how you do it ? I'm glad I came up in the music a long time ago before all this scientific figuring came about to explain what is right and what is wrong. When I started you paid attention to everybody else that was playing, and took from them the things that worked for you. Sure wasn't anybody standing around back then telling you . you had held your pick wrong, or held your hand wrong etc. Only thing you were corrected about was tuning and timing, and if you had those two right and played the tune, no one would have cared if you stood on your head to do it, as long as you got it done. I think sometimes nowadays that beginners have way too much 'right' way 'wrong' way stuff threw at 'em, by folks that are dead sit that only their way is the only way. If you can pick good floating/bridging, great !, if you can do it brushing/ posting, great ! Whichever way that you can do IT, is "THE WAY" !

[Ken_P]

While it's true that different people can become comfortable with different techniques, I do believe that on some level some techniques are better than others. Think of it this way - basically all of us have fundamentally the same physical structures that we're using to play. Our hands and wrists are put together the same way, the bones, muscles, ligaments and tendons are the same, and they're arranged in the same manner. Based on this, I just can't buy the argument that we're all so different that everybody needs to develop their own unique approach.

Would you recommend to an aspiring classical violinist that he or she ignore centuries of established pedagogy because of anecdotal evidence that people are better off doing what seems to work when they're starting out? I strongly agree with Mike Marshall in this case, that there is a right way to teach and learn basic technique, and future mandolinists will be much better off once it's well established.

[abuteague]

I planted my finger, but I felt it slowed me down. I also think that in principle, I don't want to dampen the top of the mandolin after what I paid for it to vibrate freely.:))
So I worked on Mickey Cochran's crosspicking book, particularly the exercises. I felt much more confident about my right hand and finding the strings I needed without posting my pinkey. I felt that I improved my right hand accuracy.
Strong feelings on this one I guess.

[John Kinn]

There was a thread quite a long time ago with pictures of many well-known picker's hands showing a great diversity in picking-approach, but I don't seem to find it through searching.

[Rob Gerety]

It's like swinging a hammer driving a nail, yea it looks like there is just one way to do it, but everybody basically holds it a little different, but as long as you get the nail drove who cares how you do it ?

90% of the framers out there swing the hammer in pretty much the same way. You don't use just your wrist to swing a big framing hammer. If you do it with just your wrist most people aren't going to be able to get the job done. No power.

I'm glad that I had someone show me the "right" way to pound nails. Saved me a lot of wasted time and effort messing around with lousy technique.

Same with mandolin playing. Good instruction on basic technique can save a new player a ton of wasted time and energy and avoid habits that will have to be broken later down the road. Often what seems comfortable and right to a new players later becomes a bad habit that will have to be broken to progress. For most people anyway. Some are super human and can get it done any which way. But, it is also true, if you can get it done it does not matter one iota how you do it.

Its not just a bunch of "hype". Its just a different opinion.

[JeffD]

... ignore centuries of established pedagogy because of anecdotal evidence ...


That is the gist of it.

[300win]

Nope, its a bunch of hype. I didn't say anything about a 'framing' hammer. You swing that'un kinda differant than you do finsh work hammering. This knowlegde comes from over 30 years of being a carpenter, just like mandolin playing I'll stand by what I've stated on that it comes from over 40 years of playing one. Maybe we are talikng about two differant music types here. All I know is Bluegrass mostly, what I was raised on, but I can also play acoustic rock and jazz a little too, and I hold my pick hand the same way for all. I've even dabbled in clasical but only by ear, and lets see according to classical players you can't play iy not unless you can read music, well that counts me out. I have a friend who can flat out play Bluegrass fiddle as good as anyone, but you know what he can do classical violin stuff also as good as any that plays it, know what ?, he ain;t trained at all in that, just can play whatever he hears, so from that I believe that the comment about the bow-holding classical way is the only way is also a bunch of hype. Gosh its simple what I've been saying, as long as the music sounds right coming out of whatever you are playing, what differance does it make how you do it. I once saw a young man on tv that could play the heck out of a guitar with his feet, he was born without arms, outstanding music !, was he doing it wrong ? Understand what I'm saying now ?

[jimbob]

I sort of rest my wrist on the bridge and free hand pick....took a while to get used to it because played 5-string many years and planted the pinky then.

[Horsefarmer]

Thank You all for Your help! I have a Weber without a pick guard. I guess I'll just keep freehanding until I get it right.Sincerely Horsefarmer

[mandolirius]

Nope, its a bunch of hype. I didn't say anything about a 'framing' hammer. You swing that'un kinda differant than you do finsh work hammering. This knowlegde comes from over 30 years of being a carpenter, just like mandolin playing I'll stand by what I've stated on that it comes from over 40 years of playing one. Maybe we are talikng about two differant music types here. All I know is Bluegrass mostly, what I was raised on, but I can also play acoustic rock and jazz a little too, and I hold my pick hand the same way for all. I've even dabbled in clasical but only by ear, and lets see according to classical players you can't play iy not unless you can read music, well that counts me out. I have a friend who can flat out play Bluegrass fiddle as good as anyone, but you know what he can do classical violin stuff also as good as any that plays it, know what ?, he ain;t trained at all in that, just can play whatever he hears, so from that I believe that the comment about the bow-holding classical way is the only way is also a bunch of hype. Gosh its simple what I've been saying, as long as the music sounds right coming out of whatever you are playing, what differance does it make how you do it. I once saw a young man on tv that could play the heck out of a guitar with his feet, he was born without arms, outstanding music !, was he doing it wrong ? Understand what I'm saying now ?

Yeah, I do. You're citing anecdotal "evidence" that no one can verify. No one knows if your violin-playing friend is all that you say he is or not. No one knows what you sound like. And using an example of the guy with no arms is beyond apples and oranges, it's apples and a can of soup.

Look, I don't entirely disagree with your sentiment. There are definitely different ways to play. Pick grip is one place where, if you look close, you'll see a variety of grips, arm positions, posting or not etc. But what you won't see very often is someone holding the pick with three fingers. That's because it doesn't work for most people and those that do play like that usually wind up making a change at some point.

It's just beyond the pale to say "it's all hype". There is definitely wisdom out there and advice that can help beginners. That's not to say everyone is going to play exactly the same way but take a look, even just at bluegrass players. Like swinging a hammer, most people do it in a very similar way.

I've done a fair bit of teaching and I've been able to give some beginners advice on right hand technique that has helped them. I'm benefiting right now by following some of Mike Marshall's advice on right hand technique. I don't think absolutism is very valuable in these types of discussions. There has to be room for some moderation. It's not all "this" or all "that".

[Ivan Kelsall]

On Banjo,anchoring one or even 2 fingers (pinky & 3rd fingers) is pretty common,as it's all finger movement used for playing. It's always seemed a contradiction to me,to plant one's pinky rigidly on the top of the Mandolin & then hope to have a completely loose wrist movement. Obviously some folks can do it,i tried it just to see what it was like,but found that i just couldn't get enough wrist movement for my way of playing.
Personally,i rest my wrist lightly on the bridge & possibly use as much power in my pick holding fingers as my wrist.Ultimately,it's whatever works for the individual,
Ivan

[JeffD]

I guess the thing for me is that playing while planting or playing without planting, doen't make a whole lot of difference in how I sound. Some difference yea, and some passages sound better with a little planting, but in terms of some large epiphony "oh, had I but known...", doesn't happen to me.

What seems to much more important to me is holding the instrument away from the body, and making sure the left hand fingers are not parallel to the frets but come in at an angle, leaving fingers down as a melody goes up, to minimize movement when the melody comes down, and that neck is away from my palm. Those things make a huge difference to me.

[Jeff May]

I've been playing mandolin about 2 1/2 years. I started out planting, then made a serious effort for about a year and a half not to plant. Once I started getting up close to actual performance speed, I noticed I was considerably cleaner if I planted a little. So some of the time I just rest on the bridge, but when I'm really trying to get the speed up I tend to plant a bit. I'm happy with it. As most know, there's a huge benefit to learning to relax the wrist, and that's a lot easier to do if you're not planting HARD, but for me that tiny bit of extra stability allows me to play a little cleaner and faster. I'll never be Chris Thile or Ronnie McCoury fast, and I'm not trying to teach others how to do anything, so it doesn't matter to me. Some of my favorite players are "planters" to some extent.