Celtic music & ellis A

[Gkar66]

I am looking at a major upgrade for my final mandolin (at least that is what my wife thinks). I am a casual player and was doing a fair amount of bluegrass. I played an Ellis A and loved it. I was saving for it but recently have been playing alot more celtic music and I think my mandolin music tastes have taken a turn strongly in that direction. I know that the oval hole mando's are popular with celtic music players but does it really make that much difference? I would think a quality instrument would excel in any music arena.....right? Looking for opinions on whether I should be looking at a different instrument. I did see the thread about the oval hole Ellis but not really interested in a wait. Thanks

[Jill McAuley]

I play irish trad stuff and to my mind you can play trad/celtic styles on any type of mandolin - if you go to a session in Ireland you're likely to see a variety of types of mandolins - bowl backs, f-holes, oval holes, flat top, carved top, it's all good. The Cafe's own Dagger Gordon plays a Collings MT2 if I'm not mistaken, and any video I've seen of Luke Plumb shows him playing an F-style with f-holes. I think you've hit the nail on the head with your statement about a quality instrument excelling in any arena. I would say go for the Ellis - it's obviously going to be an AWESOME mandolin and you'll retain flexibility with it, as it'll suit for a variety of styles of music - bluegrass, celtic, old time, even classical if that takes your fancy!

Cheers,
Jill

[JEStanek]

I don't think you'll get much better advice than what Jill just gave you. If you really want an oval hole for the ITM, Scottish stuff, consider getting a less expensive flat top oval (Gypsy, Big Muddy, Red Line Traveller) to add to the sonic mix.

Jamie

[hank]

PJ's got his brand new, just in, gonna regret it big time Ellis A5 for sale in the classifieds. I love my old A4 but if I had to give one of my two mandolins up it wouldn't be my F5 Goldrush. You can usually pick up a lower priced instrument with sustain pretty cheap but you usually have to pay the piper for an really good knock your socks off F hole instrument. My very retail purchased with the added cost of old authentic parts and case A4 was still less than half the cost of my F5.

[Rob Gerety]

Might be a good idea to go on a shopping trip and play some different mandolins.

[mtucker]

jill makes an excellent point. but if you have the extra ching, and want to step up a few thou, there is one unspoken for Gil oval coming to Gruhn's next week that will be killer. likely you'd be assured that you won't lust for another oval with this one. won't have all the purty cosmetic whistles and bells but .. will sure sound good and you'll love picking it up and playing it!

[Tim2723]

Another thing to recognize is the reason that Jill's list of mandolins in Celtic music includes every kind. The mandolin is a newcomer to the Celtic scene. It has no ancient tradition like the harp and flute and fiddle. It's the contemporary players who are defining the requirements and writing the history. Find the mandolin that suits you and it will work.

[Jill McAuley]

Spot on, Tim - couldn't have said it better meself!

Cheers,
Jill

[hank]

Chad Fadely has a Gilchrist Model 1 oval for sale in the classifieds now.

[Jill McAuley]

I'd give me eye teeth for that one!! Every time Don G. posts clips of him playing his Model 1 over at the Song-A-Week social group my MAS knows no bounds!

Cheers,
Jill

[CES]

You can definitely play Celtic music on your choice of mando, but, as I've begun to delve into that arena recently as well, I've discovered that my Flatiron pancake is by far the best of my mandos for this music (my others include a Kentucky 675-S, a Fender Rigel look alike, and a Mandobird). The sustain difference is huge in tunes where you use some drone strings, and the tone just suits it better. The pancake is also the best quality of my mandos, and though I play BG on it at home alone sometimes, it certainly is NOT a BG mando.

Knowing that my musical tastes wander all over the place, even from week to week (or even day to day), I'd say get the best mando you can get at this point. If the Ellis A is it, I don't think you'll regret getting such a high quality instrument, especially if your interests shift in a few months. And, as Jamie stated, there are plenty of low priced (ie, less than 600 bucks) flat top oval holes you can try relatively guilt free if you choose.

Ultimately do what you think will make you happiest in the long run, and good luck...I agonize every time I save up the cash for a new purchase!!

[fishtownmike]

I played a Weber Bridger A Celtic model an acquaintance owns and liked it a lot. It has a great sound and that Celtic look to it. I want one now.

[Dagger Gordon]

Just noticed this. Actually Jill, I play a Collings MT which is their cheapest model - quite a bit cheaper than the MT2 with an Engelmann rather than Adirondack spruce top and different lacquer - but with F holes. It seems to me to have really good sustain and a grand loud sound.

I'm not sure why people say oval holes are better for Celtic. It's actually not something I have heard anyone ever say in Scotland. I guess it's because they probably usually do have more sustain. However the Collings MT works well for me and everybody who has played it seems to agree. I also think f holes cut through much better in a session.

I think Dennis Cahill plays a Collings MT or MT2, with f holes. English player Simon Mayor is another who prefers f holes.

I see no reason why your Ellis would not be fine for whatever you want it for.

[Mike Snyder]

The mando/fiddle guy in David Munnellys' band plays a lefty F5.

[Dagger Gordon]

Further to my earlier post, I have put up a Youtube of Dennis Cahill playing his f-hole Collings in the Celtic section.

[Capt. E]

In order to make your decision harder, Tom Ellis is now making an Oval hole A. Clay at Fiddlers Green would know about it. They were to get the first one. Same price as the ff hole Vintage A.

[Tim2723]

I'm not sure why people say oval holes are better for Celtic. It's actually not something I have heard anyone ever say in Scotland. I guess it's because they probably usually do have more sustain. However the Collings MT works well for me and everybody who has played it seems to agree. I also think f holes cut through much better in a session.


Don't take this to the bank, but I've heard this explanation from a couple of reliable sources and it makes sense, at least to me.

I understand that when the mandolin was first making real inroads into the Irish scene that players of that day (late 60's, early 70's) mostly had Army-Navy type flat tops available to them. All the fancy, expensive stuff was still on this side of the Pond. A lot of people, such as The Corries, were using bowl backs frequently as well. Consequently, the flat-top round hole started to be considered the 'Irish' style (all this 'Celtic' business came into the language later). Today there are several makers building 'Irish' and 'Celtic' mandolins with over sized flat top bodies to give a bigger sound in sessions. But all that put together doesn't equate to a long history for the instrument in the genre, so we're finding every imaginable kind of mandolin showing up.

[Goodin]

I am an ex-bluegrasser converted to trad Irish mandolin. I agree with what everyone else says. Pick the mandolin that speaks to you and what YOU think has the best tone. I personally like the tone of my F4 and prefer oval hole instruments for trad. Irish, but if a session gets big I will break out my Givens F hole which is louder and "cuts" more. I prefer the softness of the oval holes and don't care for the "cut" but conversely, in a session you need to hear yourself!

I used to own an Ellis F5 and I think the tone is well suited to any type of music. Maybe even more so to Celtic music than bluegrass even though it is a bluegrass mandolin.

[Baron Collins-Hill]

i got one of tom's A styles last summer and couldnt be happier. I play mostly fiddle tunes of all sorts (old time, scandinavian, quebecois, irish, etc) and jazz, as well as some bluegrass. Ellis A5s are extremely versatile instruments and, though i am certainly biased, think they will fit in anywhere you can dream to put one.

keep us updated, cant wait to hear the outcome,

baron

[mandroid]

Oval hole's sound propagation will be a bit easier to hear sitting on top of it, a slight advantage.
F holes characteristically seem to throw the sound forward, project a bit more.

some solution .. the side sound hole in the rim .. which some builders have began to offer .. clever.

[Goodin]

Hey Mandroid that got me to thinking...A side F hole!