Absolute newbie not only to mandolin but to string instruments

[rap4th]

Hello all!!

My name is Rob and I have been playing Irish Whistle for about a year and a half now and I am really enjoying myself at the local session (not to say that I am an expert on the whistle by any means). Anyhow, I have been toying with the idea of learning how to play mandolin (I am not giving up on the whistle...just want to learn another instrument).

The mandolin I am looking at getting is the Epiphone MM-20 which my local music shop says they have a few that are coming in soon. My plan is to learn my chords first and get the feel for playing it. Then once I get more comfortable, then maybe I will try learning how to play the main part of the tunes.

This had led me to a lot of research on the good ol' net about mandolins and maybe everyone here can help me out with a few questions I have:

1. What is everyone's feelings on the Epiphone MM-20? Is it a good starter mandolin?
2. Since it is a A style mandolin, it is difficult to attach a strap to one. Does anyone have any suggestions on had to attach a strap the A style?
3. I have seen that it is a good idea to replace the strings right away on the mandolin. Why is this? Especially if it is brand new and no one has played it yet.
4. Since I have never touched a string instrument before, is there anything I should know about replacing the strings?

OK I guess that is all for now. I can't wait to get it!! Hope the order comes in soon. I am going though my local music store because I have a concert flute that I am going to trade in to reduce the purchase price. If it wasn't for that, I would order one online.

Rob

[Jim]

Hi Rob, Welcome to the forum. I think you'll really enjoy playing the mandolin. I think with a good setup from your dealer the MM20 can be a starter mandolin but I want to stress the good setup part again. I don't know what kind of flute you are trading but I hope it reduces the purchase price quite a bit since the Epiphone is not a particularly expensive instrument to start with. The strings that come on new instruments are generally not of good quality though you can play them and then put on new strings to discover how much better it sounds. Many here have started on an epiphone and they will get you by , but you might check with your dealer about getting a Kentucky, their low end instruments are solid wood instead of Plywood and they have a great reputation around here. Not alot more expensive than an Epiphone either. In any case good luck with your purchase and I hope you enjoy playing your Mandolin.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jim's advice is sound regarding the set-up. If it's well set up & easy to play,use it to figure out if you're 'really' interested in Mandolin & also,if you have a 'talent to play' one.That's what i did with my first instrument.It wouldn't have mattered if it was made from a garden fence or premium quality wood,if i was a total flop on it. Just play it, & if you do decide the Mandolin is for you,then look to upgrade ASAP. Don't get all serious about it,it's a 'fun' thing, keep it that way & enjoy the heck out of it,
Ivan

[Fretbear]

Changing the strings is basically just to know what you have got. Factory strings could be anything, and they will generally use the cheapest available. See if the place that is selling it to you will install a new set of strings and adjust the bridge location for proper intonation and height for best playing action (string height from the frets). One thing to be aware of is that a mandolin's bridge is not attached to the top of the instrument, it is just held there by string pressure. If you were to take all the strings off at once, say to clean it, the bridge will fall off the instrument. This is fine if you know how to put it back, but it's exact placement is critical for the instrument to play in tune properly (considering it is in tune to begin with, which is not a given) so always loosen or change one string one at a time to avoid this. Get yourself some kind of electronic tuner as well, mandolins take a lot of tuning.

[Coffeecup]

High Rob. I'm a beginner, been at it for about a year with an Epiphone MM30. I'm under no illusions about it's quality long term but for now it serves me well, easy enough to play and reasonable sound. The only issue that I had with it at first was a buzz. I tracked it down to the pick guard - one of the mounting screws wasn't clamping the guard securely. Easily fixed by adding a shim of plastic. As I understand it,the MM20 has a plywood top, the MM30 a solid top. The price difference isn't great so, out of the two, you may be happier with the MM30.

Strap mounting - it came with a single peg on the body, opposite end to the neck. Initially I tied the other end of the strap behind the nut. This meant that the instrument's natural position was too far to the right on my body so I fitted a peg below the heel where the neck joins the body. I think that placing it on either side of the heel would cause the mando to rotate inconveniently. It's worked well for me with the only downside being that, because of the bulk, I have to remove the strap before putting the mando to bed in it's case.

[Mandolin Mick]

Welcome to the Cafe!

I started with an Epiphone A model many years ago. It's a good place to start and you can upgrade later if you decide to continue on the mandolin.

When I bought the Epiphone I had the shop put a button on the heel for the strap.

Good Luck!

[rgray]

Welcome. I don't know anything about the Epiphone but from the nature of your questions I would encourage you to do a bit more research before making a decision. JEStanek on the Cafe has a good blog about buying a beginner mandolin here (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?232-Buying-a-Beginner-Mandolin-Advice). Another great source of info about buying a beginner mandolin can be found here (http://www.mandozine.com/resources/buysguide/). Lots of A-styles already have the strap button on the bottom and the top loops around the neck, either above or below the nut depending on preference. As someone pointed out, strings are usually replaced upfront to know what you have. I bought my mandolin from The Mandolin Store, and along with a great setup (also pointed out by someone as an absolute necessity), I had a new set of J74s installed at the same time. As far as replacing the strings yourself, you will find a good reference here (http://www.frets.com/FRETSpages/Musician/Mandolin/MandoString/mandostring1.html). Finally, if you decide to go in another direction for a mandolin, all of the vendors advertising on the Cafe have great reputations for customer service and good setups to get you going. Best of luck to you.

[rap4th]

Wow! Thank you all for your advice. I would love to get a Kentucky KM-140 or move up to the Epiphone MM-30 because they both have solid tops. However, I lost my job this past October and money is tight. For my budget right now, I can get the MM-20 at Dave Phillips Music store right in the town I live in for $150. I still will have some money to get a new set of strings and have them set-up the mandolin for me. Also, that reminds me...a couple more questions if everyone does not mind:

1. Strings - I have seen light and medium strings for the mandolin. For a beginner, which should I start with?
2. Picks - I have read that you should buy a bunch and find which one you like. Is there a package out there that have a variety of picks or will I just have to buy several separately?

Rob

[JEStanek]

If you're on a tight budget, see if your store has the Dawg pick. I like these, they're large and thick and have a good tone. If your store doesn't have mandolin specific picks like the Dawg or Golden Gate, try the Dunlop ones with the turtle on them, or the larger Clatyon ones. Look at the thicker picks like for Jazz Guitar. One trick I do to help the pick stay in place from rotating in my hand is to drill a several small holes (think smaller drill bit) in the middle of the pick. You could always call up Elderly (http://www.elderly.com/), tell them you have $10-15 for picks and shipping and can they make an assortment for you. Thin picks don't work that well on a mandolin, in general. Different materials will give a different tone

For strings start with D'Addario J74s they're inexpensive and their guages are closest to a "mandolin standard" if there was such a thing. You can learn to restring on your own (go one string at a time). I like this method best (http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Mandolin/MandoString/mandostring1.html) from Frets.com.

Jamie

[rap4th]

Well I might be in luck! I forgot that I have an old trumpet that my friends mom gave to me while in college (I played trumpet for about 10 years). The trumpet is an Olds Ambassador...all the plating is worn off but the valves still work fine and I am able to play it. This along with the flute for trade-ins....I might be able to get the Epiphone MM-30!!

Rob

[Sleepy]

Welcome to the addiction

[bigbike]

Welcome to the cafe!
As for how to put a strap on, see if the shop will put a button on the end. As for the other end, most people (on A's) usually have a thin piece of string-shoestring or zip tie, something simular under the strings behind the nut at the peghead. Then you just attach the loose end of the strap to it. Mandolins don't weigh much, so the tie up there can be minimal-just make sure it is secure. You don't want to drop your 1lb instrument 4 or more feet to the floor!

As for strings, play with what comes on it, but buy a set or two of new strings when picking the instrument up and experiment on which strings you like best. In the end YOU are the one who has to listen to it, and most metal strings(that cost $5 per set) are gonna sound pretty much the same. Now when you start getting up into the $20plus range for a set then you may find some real differences. But experiment. And yes like everyone else said, buy a electronic tuner and a good starter book with instructional dvd and play along cd. Unless of course you go the route of local lessons. Yeah there are places on line that offer "free lessons" but you usually get what you pay for. At least with the dvds I have seen they take the time to go over finger placement and common mistakes.

Have fun, music is meant to be shared and have fun with, not to be hidden in your house.

[jim_n_virginia]

Hi welcome to the Cafe! Lots of good advice you are getting especially about getting a good set up.

Don't forget there is a LOT of great mandolin tab on the Cafe home page to get you started playing fiddle tunes! Enough to keep you busy a LONG time!

:mandosmiley:

[rap4th]

Again, thank you all for the great advice. I have a long relationship with music and can read regular music with no problem. However, reading tabs is foreign to me....it is going to take quite a bit of practice. I am going to try to get my chords down. Then when I go to my Irish sessions, I will play my Irish whistle on the tunes I know, and then ones I don't....hopefully I will be able to bring out the mandolin and try to at least play along with the chords. I am really excited!! I am going to the music store tomorrow with the trumpet and flute to see how much I can get and if all goes well, hopefully I will be able to bring home a MM-30!

[Jill McAuley]

Plenty of ABC's and notation available over at thesession.org if you want to be able to play tunes on the mandolin at your session vs. only playing chords on it, and seeing as how you have previous musical experience you could always try figuring out tunes by ear as well.

Cheers,
Jill

[Capt. E]

I've played an Epi MM-30 and the Kentucky KM-160's and higher and would urge you to go the Kentucky route, perhaps even think about spending the additional money on a Kentucky KM-505, which is a huge improvement over the Epiphone etc. Regardless of which you decide on, a good set up is critical in you learning to play. It will make all the difference.
Mandolin was my first serious attempt at a string instrument as well, I also play pennywhistle, harmonica and accordion. You will find the mandolin to be a very enjoyable instrument, easier to learn than a guitar.

[John Kinn]

Please buy a mandolin with a solid top! You'll regret it if you don't! I started out with a plywood Epi, and they are no good! No matter if you are a newbie or not, you need a decent,playable instrument. You might check out the classifieds here.

[John Kinn]

There'a a 50's Stadium (aka Stradolin) in the classifieds for $200 right now. I have a feeling this might be a better instrument than what you are waiting for. What do the others here think?

[rap4th]

Well I have some more time to make my decision and save a little more money. There was no trade-in values for either the flute or the trumpet...*sigh*

Reset assured, I have been convinced to get a solid top mandolin, so the MM-20 is out of the picture. So now I am looking at the Epiphone MM-30 and the Kentucky KM-140. I have to save enough for a case, extra set of strings, picks and strap....so it might be a month or 2 before I am ready.

Rob

[Santiago]

The strap just fits over the "headstock" -- the fancy end with the Epiphone name and tuners on it. It's very easy. You can see my headstock to the left. I put the loop half way down between the tuners.

[rap4th]

I just came across a website (themandolinhut.com) that has a Kentucky KM-140 package for $199. The package includes:
1 Kentucky Mandolin KM-140 S
1 Padded Mandolin Bag
1 Lickity Split DVD and Book
1 Chromatic Tuner
3 PICKS
Free Setup And Free Shipping

Has anyone ordered from this site (I searched the forum to see if anyone mentioned it and I could not find any)? Is it good for the mandolin to be shipped already set up and tuned?

Rob

[Rob Gerety]

For strings start with D'Addario J74s

Or maybe consider a lighter set of strings since you will be getting used to fretting and it will hurt for a while.

[Capt. E]

Again, I urge you to add a bit more money and go with something better than the Epiphone MM30. While it is a venerable old name, Epiphone is NOT what it once was. Kentucky is much superior, especially their solid carved top models. You should be able to find a mandolin much superior to the Epi for only a little bit more, epecially if you go used (the classifieds here is a wonderful place to look).

Strad-o-lin mandolins have a very strong following, but not all Strad-O-Lins are equal and you have to be a bit careful selecting with vintage instruments. As a beginner, I would urge a you get a more modern instrument.

[rap4th]

Don't worry Capt. E, I am not looking at the Epiphone anymore. I found that the Kentucky KM-140 is probably the one I am going to purchase. I just have to save a bit more and I should be all set. Take a look at my previous post....I am waiting to hear if anyone has dealt with www.themandolinhut.com. They have a Kentucky KM-140 package for $199 that looks good...but I want to hear other peoples opinions first before going with them.

Rob

[Jim MacDaniel]

There is lots of great advice in this post (http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/entry.php?232-Buying-a-Beginner-Mandolin-Advice) from Jamie.

[Capt. E]

Don't worry Capt. E, I am not looking at the Epiphone anymore. I found that the Kentucky KM-140 is probably the one I am going to purchase. I just have to save a bit more and I should be all set. Take a look at my previous post....I am waiting to hear if anyone has dealt with www.themandolinhut.com. They have a Kentucky KM-140 package for $199 that looks good...but I want to hear other peoples opinions first before going with them.

Rob

Sounds like you are on the road. I wasn't really worrying.
I have not dealt with the Mandolin Hut, but they seem to have a good reputation here on the Cafe. Others could comment more authoritatively. Mandolin Bros, Elderly, Fiddlers Green, Etc are all good choices. They just need to have what you want. I am lucky to have Fiddlers Green here in Austin and trust them completely.

[rgray]

Kentucky KM-140 with TKL case and strap for $130 in the classifieds. Located in Baltimore but don't know how far that is from Phillipsburg, NJ.

[Steve Ostrander]

I second the advice for Kentucky.

Another way to tie a strap on is to tie a rawhide thong or bootlace under the neck extension and then attach the starp to that. I don't like the strap running up to the tuning pegs, it gets in the way of my fretting hand.

[Randi Gormley]

If you're buying new from a shop, you might ask if they'll throw in a set of new strings as a goodwill gesture. It doesn't hurt to ask. just a thought.

[rap4th]

I just wanted to mention that some additional thought, and some great advice, made me to decide to save just a little more and go with the Kentucky KM-150. That way it is a solid mandolin and one that will stay good for a long time. Now to go though the agonizing wait until I have the funds. I am spending my time, downloading all sorts of beginner mandolin info, watching as many instructional videos on mandolin and of course listening to some great tunes as well!!

Rob