practicing in the dark?

[HddnKat]

Anybody else tried this? Not that I am suggesting that playing the mandolin in the dark is a good habit to get into for sustained quality practice, but tonight when I have insomnia, I was just softly picking through Brilliancy (slowly) and found to my amazement that if I'm not able to look at what I'm doing, sometimes I find better fingerings for a song just by letting my ears and my fingers find the best way to get through a series of notes. A part in the 'B' section that has given me fits for the last 2 years suddenly fell into place with an alternate fingering, and it just came about as I was picking my way through it without really thinking about where it was headed.

[Bertram Henze]

That is a common phenomenon, not only found with musical instruments. When you drive a car, your eyes are not following your feet on the pedals or your hands on the wheel either; instead, the brain forms a spatial model of body-tool interaction which optimizes itself and does not depend on vision. What's more, vision often is too slow to follow the interaction, let alone to control it. Thus, looking at what your hands do might tempt your vision control cycle to interfere and get in the way, like a curious bystander at a crime scene.
Just looking out of the window while playing does the same job (unless, of course, you see someone breaking into your car - hard to concentrate on the music then).

On the other hand, looking at what you do can be a good test how distraction-proof your skills are. Try looking at your hands in a mirror for the ultimate trial - if your playing remains stable even then, you can play in any situation.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Quote from Bertram above :- " Try looking at your hands in a mirror for the ultimate trial - if your playing remains stable even then........". That IS an excellent way of practicing 'looking but not looking'. Many, many years back i became all too concious of watching my left hand run up & down the neck of my Banjo,top to bottom.I began to practice in front of a mirror,watching my left hand movements. After a while,you build up what i term 'muscle memory' ie.your arm 'feels' in the correct position to get your fingers where they need to be. This is how i imagine un-sighted players such as Doc Watson must get the 'feel' of things when they're playing. Simply closing your eyes while practicing can yield good results,
Ivan:cool:

[Jill McAuley]

Years ago as a guitar player I had a trick I used to do when I'd just written a song and didn't want to forget it (I didn't read/write notation - completely self taught and most of the time didn't even know the names of the chords I was playing, sometimes didn't have access to anything to record the song with either) - what I'd do was I'd play the song thru a few times with my eyes closed and without fail I'd be able to pick up my guitar the next morning and remember it spot on!

On the mandolin I sometimes find that if I close my eyes when playing a difficult part that I'm then able to play it through cleanly vs. if my eyes are open/I'm looking at my left hand etc.

Cheers,
Jill

[Pete Hicks]

I practice in the dark, or with eyes closed, often. It helps alot. It helps you get away from depending upon the dots on the side of the fingerboard. After a short time, you realize you don't need them anymore. It also prepares you for those late night festival jams in the dark.

[Jean Fugal]

I think it was Hartford that said, " If my right hand is giving me trouble I concentrate on my left and visa verses, and It straightens right out.

When driving a Big truck/ motor home, I drive to my left foot to keep in the center of the lane , and on my Motorcycle I drive to where I "want to go" not to where I am going.

[farmerjones]

i can't play with my eyes closed for too long or i fall asleep.

[fishtownmike]

I rarely look at the neck when playing so is that sorta like playing in the dark? One thing i have found about practicing before bed though is that i seem to wake up the next day and i find it easier to play something that I practiced right before bed that was giving me a little difficulty. Has anyone else noticed this with themselves?..Mike

[Bertram Henze]

I rarely look at the neck when playing so is that sorta like playing in the dark? One thing i have found about practicing before bed though is that i seem to wake up the next day and i find it easier to play something that I practiced right before bed that was giving me a little difficulty. Has anyone else noticed this with themselves?..Mike

Yes to both questions. I have that "sleeping the tune into place", too.

A music teacher once told me that you can train yourself to not need this consolidation phase anymore and practise the piece of music home in one go. That was about 20 years ago, and I still need the sleep.

[farmerjones]

Absolutely Mike.
In fact i've sort of learned to trust that. I don't work tremendously hard at learning a new tune. After all, it's just for fun anyway. So i let them steap like tea. One day i woke up and could play Leather Britches. But truth be told, i played at that tune for a year prior. If you've found how best to learn, so far, why not take advantage?

[HddnKat]

Interesting - this thread is taking a turn toward 'how do you learn a tune' - and yes, I do sometimes work at it at night, then overnight it kind of sinks in and I wake up much further along that you'd think I"d be after not touching it overnight. I have also noticed a spiral-effect, that tunes that gave me a hard time a year ago come much more easily now (once I remember how the dang thing starts).

That being said, when I"m trying to learn to improvise, I think I learn better away from the mandolin. I have to know the tune well enough to get it 'stuck' in my head, and then I start playing with fills, endings, turnarounds in my mind, and then after I have what I want strongly in mind, I go back to the mandolin and find it on the fretboard. If I just stayed on the instrument the whole time I"d keep stuck in familiar patterns and not necessarily find the new variations I want.

[Patrick Bouldin]

I think the answer that explains this is the same with carrying a full cup of coffee while walking - if you look at it, you spill, if you don't look at it you won't spill - weird. Just too much focus and over-compensation. Must be a link!

[ccravens]

I also strongly believe in the right before bed, right when you wake up, method of learning new things or practicing difficult passages.


BTW, My wife agrees with all of you guys' methods for me practicing and learning a tune.

Often when I'm practicing, she will turn out the lights and suggest that I close my eyes, and often leave the room. It's great to know your spouse supports your efforts at mando! :grin:

[Phil Vinyard]

My main instrument was the 'cello and I was always taught NEVER to look at my hands but to keep one eye on the music and the other on the conductor. Kept that up when I switched over to mandolin about 3 years ago. But, even after 3 years, I am still getting used to smaller finger spacing and I find if I do look at my left hand when I play, I stay better centered on the frets and my sound is much cleaner. So I decided it was OK to do a little of both. Learning a tune I concentrate on the sheet music. Mastering a tune I concentrate on my fingers.

But every time I do look at my fingers, I cringe expecting my 'cello teacher to pop me on the back of the head for such slovenly technique...

[JeffD]

That being said, when I"m trying to learn to improvise, I think I learn better away from the mandolin. I have to know the tune well enough to get it 'stuck' in my head, and then I start playing with fills, endings, turnarounds in my mind, and then after I have what I want strongly in mind, I go back to the mandolin and find it on the fretboard.

I tend to work that way too, and I prefer breaks that are informed by the tune, which this technique prety much guarantees.

[Bertram Henze]

Often when I'm practicing, she will turn out the lights and suggest that I close my eyes, and often leave the room. It's great to know your spouse supports your efforts at mando! :grin:

A new reason for turning the lights down low I wasn't previously aware of :))

But as I said, just looking away will do the same job, especially when you practise for session, jam or gig, where they probably won't have you play in the dark...

[Andy Alexander]

A new reason for turning the lights down low I wasn't previously aware of :))

But as I said, just looking away will do the same job, especially when you practise for session, jam or gig, where they probably won't have you play in the dark... I know some really good pickers that jam in the dark at festivals. They have no problem with jambusters horning in on their session. If someone can play in the dark, they most likely are capable of hanging with these guys.

[theCOOP]

I find after I'm able to at least get through a tune all the way to the end, the best way for me to begin to play it smoothly, is to pick up a new tune.

Perhaps it's psychological, but after struggling with a new tune for a whie, the previous tune flows more nicely...and each tune before that.

[swampstomper]

Back to the OP's question, no less an authority than Bill Keith advocates practicing in the dark (not all the time of course!). I chatted with him at EWOB last year after he mentioned it in a workshop, and he explained the reasoning: in the dark you can't look at either the fingerboard or your right hand, and it forces you to really "feel" your hands, concentrate on where they are and how you are moving them. It also gives you a good feel for how to shift positions. On a practical point, if you are singing and picking at the same time, you won't be able to look at your hands. But Bill, who hardly sings, doesn't want to be always looking at the instrument. It's about getting in touch with it.

I've tried this and it is really fun in a masochistic way -- although I have not gotten very good at it, still it helps concentrate. A good example for me is shifting to third position on the high parts of a tune like Grey Eagle or Tom & Jerry. You want to plant the 1st finger squarely on the A note of the E string, or perhaps slide it from the G# to the A, while your hand has been in 1st position.

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

Funny timing on this thread. I had been having intermittent fretting problems mving around the board. So last night before I read this thread I sat down in the dark with enough light to be able to read my notes, but see nothing else. I was able to walk through Turkey in the Straw first time through with no issues, actually impressed myself. Of course I go to play it this morning and my right hand wants to be the jerk this time. I wish I would have thought of this while I suffered from snow-blindness over the weekend.