How much for bridge replacement and fitting?

[Rob Gerety]

My teens Gibson A4 is in remarkable shape and I love it. I've had a little work done - reglue brace, new nut, level frets. It plays very well. The action needs to be raised a tiny bit to eliminate some buzzing. It has the original fixed bridge. I am beginning to think that the best thing might be to buy a good adjustable bridge and have it fitted by a local luthier - keeping the original bridge in the case. Do you folks agree? How much should I expect to pay? What are the replacement bridges that I should consider using? This is a lovely instrument and I want to get the most out of it.

[Paul Hostetter]

I recommend that you shim the existing bridge. I've done that conversion to thumbwheels many times, with little evidence one way or the other about an improvement. But you do make a much bigger mark on the top with an adjustable bridge. That alone is reason to leave well-enough alone. Shimming is simple and fairly invisible.

http://www.lutherie.net/gibson.non-adjustable.bridge2.jpg

[Gail Hester]

This question comes up occasionally and again I have to respectfully disagree with Paul a little bit. I like to change out the one-piece bridges for an adjustable bridge most of the time for several reasons. I’ve seen a lot of top damage caused by the narrow footprint of one-piece bridges as they can cause dents, gouges and even cracks. Better maintenance and occasional refitting of the bridge over the mandolins life would probably have avoided this but we have to deal with what’s there now. Secondly, I think the adjustable bridges sound better; this is subjective but my opinion. Lastly, an adjustable bridge is, well...adjustable. They make it easier to keep the mandolin playing the way you want throughout the year and make other setup related maintenance like fret jobs and such easier. Each luthier will have their own price for a bridge and installation but I would think less than $100 for most.

[Rob Gerety]

Yea, I see both points. Food for thought.

The top of the bridge on my mando is different from the bridge shown in Paul's post. The top of my bridge has a channel or mortise milled into it and there are four small "saddles" that are milled with a tenon that fits into the channel. The string slots are cut into each saddle. My action is too low - but just slightly. I suspect if I had new saddles and recut the string slots it would be fine. Not sure, but I think so. Is it possible to obtain new uncut saddles for this bridge?

Also, if I were to replace the bridge with an adjustable bridge - how would I deal with attaching the pick guard?

Also, if you glue a shim on the bottom of the bridge do you need to refit the bridge to the top?

[Paul Hostetter]

Yea, I see both points. Food for thought.

The top of the bridge on my mando is different from the bridge shown in Paul's post. The top of my bridge has a channel or mortise milled into it and there are four small "saddles" that are milled with a tenon that fits into the channel. The string slots are cut into each saddle. My action is too low - but just slightly. I suspect if I had new saddles and recut the string slots it would be fine. Not sure, but I think so. Is it possible to obtain new uncut saddles for this bridge?

You have to make them, but that's not hard to do. I personally never liked those individual saddle inserts, I think sound is lost. It seems to perk up when you get everything dialed in and then glue them.


Also, if I were to replace the bridge with an adjustable bridge - how would I deal with attaching the pick guard?

That is an issue. That little brad that rests in the hole in the bridge is not entirely critical—many pickguards never had it—but it's another step away from originality to defang the pickguard. They're a different shape for a reason:

http://www.lutherie.net/gibson.mandolin.guard.spikes.jpg


Also, if you glue a shim on the bottom of the bridge do you need to refit the bridge to the top?

No. I usually rough-cut a couple of standard black veneer shims and simply stack them under the bridge and string it up for a test run to see if the action is correct. Then I loosen the strings, cover the top with waxed paper, apply the glue, stack them up again, and string it up and leave it until the glue sets. I prefer epoxy for this. After it's kicked, I clean up the foot.

But since you have this entirely other weird bridge, if the base of your bridge fits well now, leave it alone and change the inserts at the top, raising your action with those. You can make a single long piece using a router, then cut it into little separate pieces if you wish, and dial in the tops so the intonation works right, and then glue them in or not.

I wish I could see this thing. If the top is chewed pretty bad, or obviously sinking in a bad way (impending cracks), Gail's approach may be the ticket. A little sinkage is OK, but I simply don't know what's really going on because I haven't seen it. I always prefer to keep an instrument as close to original as possible. I find virtually no difference in sound with an adjustable bridge versus a one-piece, but I do think the bridge with the little separate saddle pieces was not a good idea. Too much airspace for good sound conduction. You can keep the look, though.

Here's one more idea: with your little inserts, you can safely add ebony to each of them, and recut the tops:

http://www.lutherie.net/rebuild.gibson.mandolin.saddles.jpg

Just make sure the surfaces are really true and tight. Use CA to glue them and they will be invisible and won't come apart.

[Gail Hester]

I agree with Paul on the subject of originality and would never "defang the pickguard." Just to clarify, I do prefer adjustable bridges and if there are issues I don't hesitate to replace the original (put in the case) with an adjustable bridge and often my customers request it. If there are no issues and the customer wants to keep the one-piece bridge that's fine too and I have shimmed them as paul has described. I would always check and re-fit the bridge as needed.

Here are a couple pictures of new bridges installed on instruments with the pickguard pin. The pin usually slips right into the space but sometimes a small notch is helpful. I usually wrap the end of the pin if felt, foam or leather as an insulator against any rattling.

[grandcanyonminstrel]

Ken Cartwright wrote an intereting article in Mandolin Magazine a few years back where he covered the full spectrum of solid vs adjustable bridges and how they sounded and functioned on one of the late 70s vintage Loar copies that John Monteleone made for Mandolin Brothers. Good read, and I agree pretty close to his results based upon about 100 or so that he made and installed. You out there today Ken??

I'd probably put the price for a good repairperson ( emphasis on the good to very good part) to put on a new high quality bridge closer to 100-150, depending upon the shop and your area. To fit it correct is generally 1-2 hours of shop time when it is all said and done; add that to the $50 price of a high quality bridge from someone like Cumberland Acoustics ( my curremt favorite- everyone I've ever gotten from Steve is not just nice- they all have been more like excellent quality of both form and high grade ebony). Sure you can always find someone cheaper or send it to your local electric guitar shop where a 16 year old might be working on your mandolin. Having been on both sides of the story, a really well fit and setup bridge by a seasoned professional MANDOLIN luthier can make a very nice improvement to your instrument, and a long time ago, I was that 16 year old pounding in frets with a rusty pawnshop hammer as fast as I could get them in while rocking out to heavy metal at full volume!!!

Not to sideline the thread, but do you really need those half a dinner plate sized giant pickguards on a mandolin today???

j.
www.condino.com

[Rob Gerety]

do you really need those half a dinner plate sized giant pickguards on a mandolin today???

Nope, not in my opinion. But they do look kind of cool. Right now I have it off but I've been thinking of putting it back on just for the cool factor.

Man, you guys are unbelievable. Great help - thanks so much for taking the time. I've found a guy that I trust to do the work located right nearby. It is a close call for me but I think I will take the risk of perhaps marking the top a bit with the bigger foot and install a good new adjustable bridge. I'll stick the original bridge in the case, with the original nut. If I can make the pick guard work without a lot of fuss I'll put it back on. I won't defang it, so that will remain original. I'll keep a close eye on the fit and do everything I can to avoid marking up the top.

Looks like the bridge will be around $50 and the work to fit it properly and do a quick set up will be around $100.

Paul, this mandolin top is excellent. Zero sinkage that I can detect. Great shape. There is a bit of roughness under where the bridge sat before I moved it back a tad to set the intonation. A few minor stray marks. Really good and solid.

[Lefty Luthier]

It may sound a bit simplistic but an alternate way to raise the action of an already fitted bridge is to cut back the top a bit and add either an ebony or bone top cover. I regularly do this on vintage bridges with good results. The big benefit, in my way of thinking, is that you minimize the risk of damaging the top finish and never need to mess with the pickguard.