View Full Version : Spanish Guitar Tuning?
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58786
I know most cafe' members read all the categories but I wanted to make sure the folks that like to comment in the theory section see this post.
Jim Broyles
Jan-27-2010, 7:59pm
I know there are some who do tune guitars in 5ths, notably Robert Fripp, but it is really not practical for the average person simply due to the stretches involved because of the scale length. Why not just play an OM if you want that register in 5ths?
OM, maybe. Right now the guitar tuning is just at the idea stage. It might be so impractical that it's useless to me, but I was wondering what I could learn from it.
I've been playing with tunings in my mind, just a little actual tuning on the guitar, and this is the most practical looking one i could think of.
I realize I'm kind of going against hundreds of years of guitar evolution from people who collectively and individually know a lot more than I do. It's just fun stuff that might help me learn more and keep motivated.
OM, maybe. Right now the guitar tuning is just at the idea stage. It might be so impractical that it's useless to me, but I was wondering what I could learn from it.
I've been playing with tunings in my mind, just a little actual tuning on the guitar, and this is the most practical looking one i could think of.
I realize I'm kind of going against hundreds of years of guitar evolution from people who collectively and individually know a lot more than I do. It's just fun stuff that might help me learn more and keep motivated.
It's all a slippery slope to a 5 course OM or Zuke Cittern.
mandroid
Jan-28-2010, 12:29pm
the difference in intervals , unison at the 7th fret rather than the 5th , has you starting with a rather fat string in order to have something useful at the other end,
and scale lengths that each work best at, are quite different,
Study the Novax Fan fret system, that may be a decent way to go when you want such a huge range.
http://www.novaxguitars.com/
EarlG, as I note in the thread you linked to, Spanish tuning for guitar is actually open G, popular for slide guitar and among slack key guitarists as Taro patch tuning (DGDGBD).
Since you ask, Jim, one huge reason to adopt full fifths tuning for guitar is that it costs less than an octave mandolin or bouzouki. My main converted 12-string mandophone cost less than $600 all told, instrument and set up included. I've never seen a 5-course cittern that could match its tone and volume at the same price.
Playing a guitar in full fifths is pretty much as easy as playing a regular scale bouzouki, octave mandolin or cittern.
As has been noted in the other threads, one can get the high B4 on a standard guitar with a string from http://octave4plus.com. (http://octave4plus.com) The lowest string on my full fifths guitars, set up for extra light gauge strings, is .054. This isn't very fat in my opinion.
Anyway, I just wanted to add a few comments from someone who actually plays with the tuning and has experience with using it on more than half his guitars....
...and Master of None
Jan-29-2010, 4:41pm
I actually fooled around with tuning one of my electric guitars in fifths last week and I'm waiting for a nut file to get here so I can set that guitar up that way permanently (right now the 0.056 bass string is perched kind of high 'cause the nut is slotted for something like 0.046).
I play guitar and bass and a bit of NAF, tinwhistle, and blues harp; none of them particularly well, hence my user name. I only just ordered my first mandolin from TheMandolinStore.com today (after spending a few hours last night on this site).
Anyway, I found two things when trying to set my guitar up in fifths - I needed to start with a really low bass string -- and tension was still going to be too high (as in, breaking strings) on the treble side.
The tuning I finally came up with - and that I am still experimenting with but that so far I really like - is C G D A C E. This can be done with medium-heavy gage strings but I find that I liked it much better with an 0.056 bass string (from a set of "not even slinky" strings) and then the rest from a more normal 10-gage electric set.
The thing I like about this tuning is that it gives much sweeter (to my ear) voicings of the dom 7, maj 7, and 9 chords. I suspect that this is because the "extension" note(s) is/are above all the basic three notes of the chord. On the E- and A-shape bar chords typically used on electric guitar in standard tuning the dominant (or major) seventh is at a pitch that actually puts it below the lowest occurance of the third. That's a perfectly valid inversion, but I've never liked the sound of the major seventh chord on guitar. The first time I strummed it in the C G D A C E tuning I kind of wiggled a little and said, "ooh, I like that." :)
Soloing is probably going to be a little more difficult in this tuning - though on rock and blues electric guitar most soloing is done up pretty high and the flat-five "blue note" occurs on the second string with four other notes of the blues scale arranged in a neat little diamond pattern directly around it. It's going to take relearning some muscle memory but I suspect this tuning is going to shake up my solos...
Oh, and if you haven't figured it out yet, I tend to be long winded... :)
John
groveland
Jan-29-2010, 4:55pm
Welcome, John!
...and Master of None
Jan-30-2010, 12:22pm
Thanks.
Looking forward to the arrival of my new "baby."
John
catmandu2
Feb-12-2010, 1:27pm
...I've never liked the sound of the major seventh chord on guitar.
:disbelief:
...and Master of None
Feb-12-2010, 10:01pm
:disbelief:
Why disbelief? Do you not like some chord voicings better than others?
I just don't care for the sound of the maj 7 in standard tuning - I'm talking about an e-shape barre, of course (I play pretty much exclusively barre chords when I'm playing electric guitar). I guess I could have been clearer about that... :) The chord doesn't sound terrible, it just doesn't appeal to me. As I said, I'm assuming that's because the maj 7 is lower in pitch than the only 3rd.
Are there other ways of fingering the maj 7 that are sweeter than the e-shape barre in standard tuning? Sure, depending on what key you are in and how good your memory is.
In the CGDACE tuning the barre chords are all intuitive and, at least to my ear, some of them are a lot sweeter.
John
catmandu2
Feb-13-2010, 6:35am
Of course you're entitled to your aesthetic preferences--no argument there. Personally, I'm not a big fan of major/minor triads :sleepy: ... which is one primary reason why I'm not a big bluegrass guy. Anything you can do to alter a maj/min triad is good...even a maj7 ;)
I play a lot of bossa nova and jazz standards...so I'm a bit biased :whistling:.
...and Master of None
Feb-13-2010, 12:30pm
I play a lot of bossa nova and jazz standards...so I'm a bit biased :whistling:.
Ahh, that would 'splain it then - jazz is too complicated for me. I need the melody painted in with great big brush strokes! :))
John