Got a mandolin...and questions

[Simo]

I was recently loaned a mandolin that has only been played a few times. It's custom built at a Gibson Bluegrass Showcase in Nashville about 10 years ago, so I don't have any model numbers to go off of. The guy who loaned it to me bought it with the intention of learning to play but never did, so he really does not any more about it than I do.

It says it's a Flatiron Mandolin, which I'm not entirely sure what that means.

I'm a guitar player so I don't really know much about mandolins, but it seems extremely difficult to fret. I read that mandolins might be slightly harder due to the increased tension but this seems too much. It has a one piece bridge so I'm not sure how easy it would be too adjust the action (not that I've ever done it on a guitar either). Would changing the string gauge help with this? I don't even know what gauge is currently on it.

So basically I don't know a whole lot. Any help would be nice.

[Andrew DeMarco]

How high is the action? How does the difficulty to fret this mandolin compare to other mandolins available to try (in a store, perhaps)?

A Flatiron is a respectable mandolin! Definitely not a toy!

I'll bet the pros'll be by shortly to debug your problem... :popcorn:

Welcome to the cafe, in the meantime

[Simo]

Thanks. Is there a standard way to measure the action? Inches, millimeters etc.?

[bennyb]

Howdy simo,
Slightly harder than a guitar is about right. If you're measuring, .014 G string -.008 E string, at the first fret, and .070 to .060 at the 12th fret gives you pretty low action. If you're eyeballing, here's Frank Ford's method (http://www.frets.com/FRETSpages/Musician/GenSetup/NutAction/nutaction.html). If the adjustment needed is at the bridge, that can be done with files, or by replacing your one piece bridge with an adjustable one(requires fitting new bridge to top).
Sounds like it needs a basic setup. Do you know someone local who can do mandolin setups?

benny

EDIT: above measurements in thousandths of an inch

[Simo]

Couldn't find any exact rulers laying around so I went to a primitive method of seeing how many picks I could fit under the 12th fret.

And I fit 4 picks of .7 mm under the G string - which using a converter, gives .11 inches. Seems like this would be pretty high action?

There's probably someone around who can do a set up because I assume that a place that works on guitars can probably do a mandolin.

[bennyb]

Well .11 at the 12th is definitely high, but I'm thinking you're probably mostly in first position, so it's the height at the nut that's probably putting the hurt on you. Check the Frank Ford link above, and see what you think.

benny

[Simo]

Okay, I fretted between the 2nd and 3rd fret, and then looked at the space at the first fret, and it wasn't very much. Seemed like what it should be if I understood the article correctly.

[bennyb]

Well then. It sounds like you checked it out, so you'll have to drop the notches in the bridge, and maybe switch to lighter gauge strings. You should be able to get to a point where fretting is just not an issue. Just double checking: that guitar playing you do, that's an acoustic, right? :-)

[Simo]

Yep, acoustic guitar. I can't imagine how hard it would be if I was transitioning from an electric to this mandolin.

Thanks for the help!

[allenhopkins]

Is this one of the Flatiron-style Army-Navy "pancake" mandolins that Gibson sells (or sold) at their Bluegrass Showcase? I've heard that these are pretty ordinary, with none of the usual G quality. There's one for sale on CraigsList in Montana for $500. Check out these pics (http://missoula.craigslist.org/msg/1547398714.html) to see if that's what you have.

Flatiron was an independent company in Montana which Gibson bought in the mid-'80's. They made quality mandolins, some of the "pancake" style of construction, other carved-top A- and F-models. The Montana shop now makes Gibson's acoustic guitars, and the newer (last two years or so) "Flatiron" mandolins are made in China. Some of the people who worked at the old Flatiron shop in Montana, started Sound To Earth, which makes Weber mandolins and other Weber instruments.

Gibson made Flatiron-labeled instruments in Nashville for awhile; these were very similar to Gibsons, but in some cases had different bracing and other features. Gibson was making "tourist level" mandolins and selling them at the Bluegrass Showcase; Big Joe Vest, who posts on this board, could give you accurate details about these little gems. I believe they have neither an adjustable bridge, nor a dovetail joint attaching the neck, so they could well have high-action problems and need set-up. From what I understand -- and I've neither seen nor played one -- these are pretty low-end instruments, though I guess they're solid wood and might be OK learners if set up properly.

[Simo]

Yes, judging by the pictures that's exactly what I've got.

That person said it was appraised at $700? After feeling this one I can't imagine it being worth anywhere near that amount of money. But of course, the seller is probably just trying to get some extra cash.

[Big Joe]

The little flat back/top mandolins made in Nashville at the showcase were essentially tourist gifts and were not intended to be instruments that would be playable for long use. The body parts were built overseas, then assembled in the store as much for demonstration purposes. The necks had some glue in them but also a screw to hold the neck in place. These necks would move quite easily and were not easily repaired. I finally convinced our team to stop making them because the quality was so poor. Many had problems very early and had to be replaced. They did not have a warranty and did not have the Gibson in the headstock. They were not really a Gibson mandolin and were never supposed to be represented as such. Again, they were as much tourist item and not a real instrument.

These sold new for about 300 dollars. If you want to learn to play mandolin I would suggest return it and get a real mandolin. Nice wall hanger but useless as a real instrument.

[Simo]

Okay then, sounds as if it's not worth trying to get this one set up.

However, I still want to play the mandolin. I'm sure this has been asked a thousand times, but can anyone recommend a good starter level instrument at a fairly low price? I don't have a particular price range in mind, but I'd love to spend as little as possible while still getting a quality instrument.

[Jill McAuley]

My advice would be to avoid the super cheap ebay "deals" on starter instruments, as many, if not all of those tend to arrive in desperate need of a set up, which just adds more $$$ to your total outlay. Get something from a reputable online or bricks and mortar dealer, who'll include a set up in the price. Here are a few good entry level instruments:

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8817

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=8383

or if you're looking for an oval hole instrument...

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=7508

Note that all of the above mandolins are sent out set up, and a case is included in the price as well.

Cheers,
Jill

[Jim]

By all means save up for a quality mandolin in your price range Kentucky or Rover are a good place to start. Is there any good reason not to sand down the existing bridge to a playable level, with the owners blessing of course? Many not so great instuments can be made playable with a little tweaking. Cutting the nut down a little if needed is not too hard either. just my 2 cents.

[Big Joe]

There are a good number of us who usually have good beginner to intermediate mandolins that will be delivered set up properly. You can get a decent mandoliln from a few hundred up and be in good shape. For 700-1000 you can get a really good mandolin that should last for a very long time. It all depends upon the price range you want to spend what quality you will get.