Needs new frets?

[Jasper]

I am in the process of replacing my stock tuners with some Grovers. In replacing the tuners, I discovered that some of my frets, the top 5 or so under the A and E strings, are showing significant dents. I would call it wear, but it is very specific, as if I had tapped the fret with the end of a standard screw driver.

Question is...do they need replacing now or can it wait? A friend/musician of mine told me that folks are now using Banjo Frets to replace worn mando frets because the banjo frets are harder...what do you all think?

Jasper

[John Flynn]

What you describe is the typical fret wear pattern for mandos. You can play a mando perfectly well with those wear grooves ("dents") up to a point, but eventually the tone on those fret/string combinations starts to deteriorate. The strings get a "clinky" sound. Depending on how deep the grooves are, the frets may be able to be leveled and crowned rather than being replaced. If the grooves are too deep, or you don't have enough fret height left, you will have to at least replace the worn ones. Some people say you should replace all the frets if you going to replace any of them, but I don't. If you are going to just replace the bad ones, though, you should use the same fretwire that you are replacing. If you replace them all, you could go to banjo wire. A lot of people do. Keep in mind, though, that fret wear probably has as much to do with excess hand tension as it does the type of wire.

[thistle3585]

After one fret dress, I am replacing mine with banjo wire. The primary reason is that I have trouble fretting with the smaller, thinner frets because my finger makes contact with the fretboard and I have to push too hard to get the string to the fret.

[Dave Cohen]

"Banjo" wire is no harder than "mandolin" wire. Both are made from the same materials by the same manufacturer. The "banjo" wire is 0.078" wide and about 0.04" high. The "mandolin" wire is 0.053" wide and about 0.03" high (don't remember exactly; the specs are out in my shop). The "banjo" wire does tend to last a little bit longer, if only because of the extra width. The choice boils down to personal preference. Do you like wider taller frets, or narrower lower frets?

There is one manufacturer making "banjo" wire from stainless steel, instead of nickel silver. But it is not much haarder than the nickel silver wire, else it would be extremely difficult to install.

[Dale Ludewig]

I agree with everything (almost) said. What you're seeing is standard wear and tear on a fingerboard. You really can't replace those worn frets with anything but the same size as the rest. It would be a complete mess. As MandoJohnny said, at a certain point, the sound on those strings is going to change and at another point further down the road, when the grooves get deep enough, you're going to get buzzing from the frets above those with the grooves, depending on how high your action is set. Of course, the higher the action, the more you have to press down, and it's kind of like a viscious circle.
You may want to work on a lighter touch to the fingerboard when you play as this will really help. Or just buy several mandolins and rotate them so the wear and tear is spread out over several. <g>

Regardless of what your decision is, if you replace those worn frets, the fingerboard will need at least a light dressing and leveling. This means tools. And if the fingerboard is bound, it means either a lot more work or more tools, or both. It might be something to think about taking to a good local luthier to deal with.

And Dr. Dave (Hi Dave) is right. As far as I know, virtually all the fret wire, except stainless which would be a complete pain to install and level and dress, is pretty much identical in metal content, hence hardness. I, by the way, have done fingerboards with both the standard fret wire from Stu-Mac, and the next size up (although then I use a more radiused fingerboard) and you can't really tell the difference. At least I can't.

Hope this helps a little.

[Jasper]

Thanks for all the info y'all. I just put the new tuners on and they are very nice, but I don't believe I'm ready to do a fret replacement. I suspect I can go another 6 months to a year before the frets really need replacing, as there is no buzzing or bad tone coming out of the mandolin right now. I find this "amateur" luthiery enjoyable, but at my point in life (three kids going to college in the next ten years, etc.), I can't really pursue it and feed the family.

Jasper

[Luthier Vandross]

WHOA!

You say you have 6 months wear left? Then you need a fret dressing. You more likely have 2 years of wear left... pics? Mando frets have to be dressed often.. once you wear them, the wear increases, exponentially.

Clean, shiny frets hardly wear, worn ones wear very quickly... $75-$90 of dressing will save you from having to spend the 3-4 times that much... for a time.

I commonly replace mando frets with banjo frets, the fret really isn't 'purpose' made for banjo... it's just the 'standard size' light on the tang, usually.. about the same as you find on a vintage mando.


M

[Yonkle]

I am going to do this on my 2nd mandolin too. Question:Going from small mando wire to banjo wire do you usually have to cut a new nut to raise the nut higher, orwill I be OK with the old nut?? JD

[thistle3585]

A new nut needs to be done if you want to keep the same action.