Who plays fiddle as well?

[Geoff]

So who here plays fiddle in addition to mandolin, seeing as the tuning is the same? This is something I've been interested in for a while but havent gotten around to getting myself an instrument. Did you find it difficult to get the bowing down or finger correctly with out frets and having the neck positioned very differently? These are the things I've had trouble with when experimenting with a fiddle.

[catmandu2]

Here're 43 of us who've self-identified, thus far: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/group.php?groupid=109

There is a reason why the violin is one of the most expressive instruments in music--it's a highly sensitive instrument. For this reason, it is one of the more challenging instruments. For most folks, bowing generally presents the most challenging apsect of fiddle playing and can provide a lifetime of study. Conversely, the ergonomic difficulty of holding an instrument on your shoulder, while very awkward initially, becomes much easier very quickly. As well, fingering gets easier with practice. Since beginning fiddle in particular rarely strays from first position, you can easily apply mandolin fingering--making adjustments to correct intonation is part of playing fretless instruments; don't let it scare you off.

[chordbanger]

I take violin lessons, and trying to break some bad habits. I have a heavy bowing arm. My lifestyle has caused me to have 13 inch arms, which are big for a woman. ( I carry firewood, coal, and also work as a nurses aide.) My teacher is constantly telling me not to flex my bicep when I am bowing, or to tense up. He said to imagine a string around my wrist, pulling it up while bowing, so I am not so heavy on the bow. I used to place my pinkie on the bow, which was wrong, and my other violin teachers never told me it was wrong. Your concentration should be on your index finger, and the pinkie should not be on the bow, except when coming back down with the bow for a little stability, or when you lift the bow off the violin, or else your pinkie will work against the index finger. Up wrist when moving bow up, with a nice fluid motion..kind of like your lungs breathing air in then breathing out, nice and relaxed, not tense. Bowing is tough. I get a work out each week for one hour with my teacher just moving the bow, and trying to get it right, and to break all my old habits that I have learned from other teachers. I am making progress, and sounding a lot better. Good luck with playing!

[JeffD]

So who here plays fiddle in addition to mandolin, seeing as the tuning is the same? This is something I've been interested in for a while but havent gotten around to getting myself an instrument. Did you find it difficult to get the bowing down or finger correctly with out frets and having the neck positioned very differently? These are the things I've had trouble with when experimenting with a fiddle.

I played mandolin for many many years before taking up the fiddle.

Finger placement came relatively easily, especially in first position. Bowing is a challange.


But there are so many other differences that I found extremely hard to get my head around.

On the fiddle, you are in charge of everything. The instrument does nothing for you. You have to do everything. For example, on the mandolin you pluck a string and it rings out. You pluck, you move on, pluck - move on.

With the fiddle you start the note in any of various ways, you continue the note (it does not ring out on its own), and you end the note, in any of various ways that you chose.

The mandolin is like singing da da da da da. The fiddle is a lot more like singing words, or talking, where each syllable is pronounced precisely from beginning to end, and deliberately held as long as you wish.

Eventually it all becomes automatic, but this one thing was a big deal to me.


Another huge change was positions. On the violin one pretty much stays in first position until running out of strings, at which point one moves up the neck. There are doube stops and transitions up the neck that one uses now and again, but one would never play an entire tune in third position, or go about systematically avoiding open strings, something I do on mandolin quite frequently.


And no drones. On mandolin I quite frequently play a note while simultaneously hitting other strings, that ring out in the background. For example I might play the G on the E string while fingering the rest of the G chord on the other strings, so as to include some or all of those notes. Its no more difficult than just fingering the G, and hardly any difference on for the right hand.

The fiddle is more or less a single note melody instrument. Double stops and understring harmonies are a real deliberate manouver, requiring a different bowing and some awkward planning. And no chords at all.



Both are yards and yards of fun, but I find the violin a lot more exhausting, requiring my paying attention to a lot more details, and requiring a lot more practice just to sound presentable.

[Richard Moore]

I aspire to!

[Poener]

I know a couple scales and the "shuffle" bowing technique.

[Geoff]

Some interesting posts. My teacher said that playing the violin was very beneficial because you get to play the actual instrument that so much of the mandolin's repetoire was written on (you know, fiddle tunes!) He thinks that alot of standard fiddle tunes feel more natural on the fiddle and gives you a wider perspective on how the songs should sound.

[JeffD]

He thinks that alot of standard fiddle tunes feel more natural on the fiddle and gives you a wider perspective on how the songs should sound.

Well umm.. yea.

But there are many fiddle tunes, many many, that I think sound better on the mandolin.

I would agree that if you play a fiddle tune on your mandolin limiting yourself to what would be done on the fiddle, i.e. single note melody first position yada yada, it will not probably sound as good as it did on the fiddle, where the fiddler is free to use all the fiddlie ornaments and techniques.

But if you play the tune not as a fiddle tune ON a mandolin, but as if it were mandolin tune, it can and often does sound fantastic and in my opinion better. Use that tremolo, use those double stops, hammer ons, pull offs, squeeze in some chords for emphasis. Make it sing in the way a mandolin sings.

[farmerjones]

i'm mostly a hack at everything but i'd consider myself a fiddle player first, before mandolin. I picked up a mandolin 2 weeks after my first fiddle lesson, by request of my instructor. They seems complimentry. Like JeffD said, you really have to make a fiddle work. It seems like i really have to stay on top of myself to keep my chops up. Maybe not? :confused: I've never had enough guts to lay off for more than four days since i've started. I'm too scared to backslide.~:>

[BlueMt.]

I've been attempting to play fiddle for a few weeks. It's challenging but I love the sound of a fiddle on some tunes so I'm determined. I gave it a halfhearted try 27 years ago and wish I had stuck with it.

If you decide to give it a shot, be sure to get a fiddle that's set up properly; it's hard enough to play without dealing with slipping pegs and the like. A decent bow will also make things easier.

[Santiago]

I played violin for many years before switching to guitar then mandolin. I wish I could still play violin. Some time I'll relearn it.

[Pete Martin]

"God created the violin, but the Devil created the bow"

Itzhak Perlman

[Ravenwood]

But there are many fiddle tunes, many many, that I think sound better on the mandolin.

Which is why after twelves years playing fiddle I took up the mandolin. There are many tunes such as Shandon Bells and Merry Blacksmith that just sound better with the ringing tone of the mandolin than the hum of a fiddle (probably a poor description of the tonal differences between the two instrument). Different tools for different jobs. I still prefer the fiddle for slow airs and waltzes.

[Roger Kunkel]

I've been fiddling for a year and a couple of months. I took eight months of weekly lessons. I'm getting to the point where I don't hate everything I play. :)
I figure it's a long term effort. I expect it will be another year before I'm liking most of what I play.

That said, it really is an amazing instrument. You just need a lot of time to devote to it.

[violmando]

My first instrument was the violin back in the 5th grade and luckily, my parents made me keep it. I switched to double bass in 7th grade, which was my major for 2 music degrees, but I used that same old violin for teaching school music and now I use it to play fiddle tunes on; I'm into ethnic stuff, mostly eastern European or just plain old Waltzes. I play mandocello in the Dayton Mandolin Orchestra and mandola on celtic stuff. I think it's easier to start with a bowed instrument first because that technique takes some time to learn; if you start fiddle or violin as an adult, you MUST allow yourself to sound bad for awhile or else you'll give up too easily. It takes some time and patience playing with the bow to develop that tone...

[majorbanjo]

to me it was very easy going from Fiddle to Mandolin....since I played guitar for many years and had the picking part down.......going from a pick to a bow I would think would be much more difficult.....I also think it would be easier to go from mandolin to guitar than mandolin to fiddle....just due to the bowing......I played drums in high school and then started playing fiddle....the rhythm of the drumming was a bigger aid to me in shuffles and other bowing techniques than picking......I don't think picking and bowing are remotely related....

[Stephen Perry]

Bowed strings are really heavenly. Especially the good ones, which generally cost more. The bows are even more fun. My fiddle is really good enough, just barely. It's only worth about 10K. I don't have any bows that are fun at the moment. I've played some that were very nice. The best was worth a very much lot of money, way over $100,000.

There's some simple and appealing about no frets and a big stick. The feedback from the stick to the right hand, the box to the left hand and chin, all that is really amazing. Well worth trying. Most people sound like morons for six months, then they're OK.

Come by and I'll give you a tour of the fiddle world.

[Ray Neuman]

The Violin has broken my heart. It captured my soul, and then after my neck fusion 2 years ago, I cant play it. I put it away with tears. I played guitar, banjo, mandolin, autoharp and a host of other strings before the fiddle, and it kicked my butt for 3 years before I could/would play it for anyone else.

Still catches in my throat to even type this. Try it!

[brianf]

I played fiddle first, then, many years later, took up the mandolin. I love them both. The problem I always had is that I learned the guitar first, and played melody out of the chords. When I tried fiddle and mandolin, I could not give the left hand the dexterity it needs in order to do a good job. To this day, I play mandolin melody out of the chords, and only in the first position.

The fiddle is the most expressive, it can moan, cry and laugh. It can soothe and it can demand. It can sustain like the human voice, because it is bowed instead of plucked. The mandolin has a quiet richness which can change to a tinkling mocking of the banjo.

[Mark Seale]

I take violin lessons, and trying to break some bad habits. I have a heavy bowing arm. My lifestyle has caused me to have 13 inch arms, which are big for a woman. ( I carry firewood, coal, and also work as a nurses aide.) My teacher is constantly telling me not to flex my bicep when I am bowing, or to tense up. He said to imagine a string around my wrist, pulling it up while bowing, so I am not so heavy on the bow. I used to place my pinkie on the bow, which was wrong, and my other violin teachers never told me it was wrong. Your concentration should be on your index finger, and the pinkie should not be on the bow, except when coming back down with the bow for a little stability, or when you lift the bow off the violin, or else your pinkie will work against the index finger. Up wrist when moving bow up, with a nice fluid motion..kind of like your lungs breathing air in then breathing out, nice and relaxed, not tense. Bowing is tough. I get a work out each week for one hour with my teacher just moving the bow, and trying to get it right, and to break all my old habits that I have learned from other teachers. I am making progress, and sounding a lot better. Good luck with playing!

Hmmmm, I've never heard not to put your pinkie on the bow. I know a lot of fiddlers that do and a bunch that don't, but I've never heard someone specifically say and teach that one shouldn't. I guess something else to play with.

[Jim Kirkland]

I try to fiddle, but the thing I love is the tinkering, setup, rebuild, and giving just info to get someone started playing the fiddle.

[Flattpicker]

I've always wanted to play the fiddle in the worst way, and now i do!

After starting on piano, then guitar, I've been tinkering with mando for 30 years and fiddle for 20 and I sure find the mandolin easier. I know good violinists that I can't convince to cross over (getting close with a couple). It seems to me that mandolin would be a snap (by comparison) for an accomplished fiddler.

[Santiago]

I've had several top violin teachers and they had different ways of holding the bow, but all involved pinkies, either apart or separated. It's more of the counterbalance then the driver, but it's there.

[catmandu2]

I've had several top violin teachers and they had different ways of holding the bow, but all involved pinkies, either apart or separated. It's more of the counterbalance then the driver, but it's there.

I concur: the more fingers you have on the bow, the more control you have. I tend to use my thumb as a fulcrum and my fingers to balance the bow over that pivot point--therefore, as stated above, the pinky provides more stability.

[OlderThanWillie]

Because I could play the mandolin I decided to try the fiddle. I can now play the fiddle--but you wouldn't want to listen to me!

[Brooke]

I received a mandolin and fiddle three years ago for Christmas. I have done a halfway effort at learning them but have had no problem between them. It doesn make it easier for me that the strings are the same notes (GDAE). I put masking tape on the fiddle neck for a while to help my fingers learn where to go. It was helpful that I took group lessons and once a month played a 2 hour jam with my group. So...if I can do it ANYBODY can. :)

~Brooke~:>


So who here plays fiddle in addition to mandolin, seeing as the tuning is the same? This is something I've been interested in for a while but havent gotten around to getting myself an instrument. Did you find it difficult to get the bowing down or finger correctly with out frets and having the neck positioned very differently? These are the things I've had trouble with when experimenting with a fiddle.

[Len]

I play both, started on fiddle than went to mando. Love playin them both for different reasons. I have three mandolins and a few fiddles. I think if you play one than you should play the other.

[coletrickle]

I've been chipping away at fiddle for about six months, after owning one for a bit longer than that. I do find it nice to translate mando tunes to the fiddle, but as others have pointed out the distinct challenges of bowing a note make the transition interesting.

I'm really into old time fiddling, both legacies like Tommy Jarrell and contemporary players like Rayna Gellert and when you hear them play it seems a million times easier than it really is once you have the instrument in hand. I think the big challenge is trying to maintain a solid bowing rhythm while hitting clean notes. Easy to speed up and loose control.

I have found cross tunings, like AEAE to help in the learning process...mostly because you are less likely to hit off notes in a tuning like this (missed open strings as drones, etc.).

I think the hardest part about learning to bow is the shear number of styles out there in old time and the way those styles work for and against each other. It is easy for a new player to hear a great fiddle piece and try to replicate the bowing rhythm, but the reality is that those players have spent a lifetime figuring out their own way to do it. Some in a vacuum (like the Round Peak players in the mid 20th Century), others through direct osmosis with legends. I'm learning from various recordings and it is daunting when you have so many styles of bowing out there by so many great players. But it is a fun challenge. Just put it down if you get frustrated!!!! It is hard for everyone...including the pros.

[tburcham]

I played fiddle before mandolin and that has allowed me to come up to speed on the mando much faster...in the mean time my fiddle playing has suffered measurably (0-:

[JeffD]

. You just need a lot of time to devote to it.

That has been my experience. And it cuts into my mandolin time.

In my opinion, the violin has to become your main instrument to get any good at it, and to stay any good at it. One or two days a week of practice is only enough to maintain my poor level of playing.

The violin is a jealous instrument. Thou shalt have no instruments before it.

I'm just sayin'

[red7flag]

I started playing fiddle about two months ago. To my surprise the improvement has been way quicker than I would have thought. I am already on my second fiddle. I guess that is FAS. Got my second as an upgrade yesterday. I went in to the Violin Shop in Nashville as my dog ate my rosin cake. Really its true. While waiting for my old fiddle to be restrung, I played some fiddles on the wall. BIG mistake. I walked out with a new to me fiddle. A very sweet sounding 1920 German Guanerius. I am a very happy fiddler.

[fishtownmike]

I don't. But want to give it a shot. I have been a huge violin fan forever. I have a violin laying around that came with an old box of bowlback mandolins i bought to fix up. It's a German made strad copy. I need a bow though.

[walt33]

While waiting for my old fiddle to be restrung, I played some fiddles on the wall. BIG mistake. I walked out with a new to me fiddle. A very sweet sounding 1920 German Guanerius. I am a very happy fiddler.

Happy? I'll bet you are! That's quite an "upgrade!"

I had played mando for about six months when I had the chance to borrow a fiddle and take lessons for a week at a camp. Fiddle was much easier than I expected it to be, and part of that was already knowing generally where the notes were. My intonation wasn't bad, at that.

That was in 2008 and I have not yet bought an instrument. The fiddle bug is still biting, I got a big check yesterday, and I think I will not deprive myself for very much longer.

[HawksVox]

My son has played the fiddle nearly all his life and only started playing mandolin when he joined a mountain music and bluegrass band last summer and wanted to pick up something different. He started picking fiddle tunes immediately and reported that the hardest part was getting his right (pick) hand under control. The left hand fingering was automatic. So yes, I'd guess the hardest thing for a mandolinist to learn when picking up the fiddle for the first time is the bowing.

I really hope he continues to enjoy both instruments because he's getting pretty good and when he comes home for visits he fills the house with bluegrass which makes me smile.

In a related question, is it easier to learn Celtic mandolin and switch to bluegrass, or vice-versa? I know they are pretty closely related, but those of you who have learned both may have some interesting opinions on the matter.

And BTW, this is my first post as a registered member although I am a long-time "lurker" at the cafe.

[JGWoods]

I play fiddle, but not as well as mandolin despite 10 years time gone by since I stuck a fiddle under my chin.
I've concluded that I will never be a good fiddler although I might be able to play 10 or so tunes fairly well I am mostly a hack.
Nonetheless it has helped me on mandolin and guitar, banjo too, greatly and I have no regrets that I spent a lot of time trying to gain facility as a fiddler without really getting there.

Mandolin is a joy to me, fiddle is...sometimes.

[JeffD]

In a related question, is it easier to learn Celtic mandolin and switch to bluegrass, or vice-versa? I know they are pretty closely related, but those of you who have learned both may have some interesting opinions on the matter.

.

Both genres contain techniques one needs to master that are not common to both genres. But one does become a better player by learning them, and in that general sense learning each helps in learning the other, but there are skills that don't translate one to the other.

I don' know that one is easier to learn than the other - both attract lots of friendly folks who are very welcoming to newbies and exert much effort to help newbies get comfortable and competent.

[jim_n_virginia]

I took fiddle lessons for a year to get the basics down and always have a fiddle out somewhere. I was practicing pretty regular but not playing out anywhere just at home. I wanna get back into it again.

Because I know the fingering on the mandolin I could scratch out a tune on the fiddle the first time I picked one up but as my former fiddle teacher often said ... "You can scratch out a tune on the fiddle almost immediately ... but it takes TWO years before it sounds good!" :grin:

Which reminds me of my favorite fiddle joke.

Q: What's the difference between and old mangy dog and a fiddle player.
A: The dog KNOWS when to stop scratching!

:mandosmiley:

[Cliff D]

I do, although fiddle is a hard slog, as I have commented in related threads. I did see someone declaring somewhere that a good bow makes a lot of difference - now what constitutes a good bow? Provided the horse hair is not mangled & it balances reasonably then it should do the job. How do cheap bows differ from expensive? Educate me, someone.

[Chief]

Cliff- having played the violin- and later fiddle for nearly 50 yrs., I can say having a good bow is very important. That's where all your control comes from. Having a good, balanced bow allows you to play the fast stuff, and more importantly the slow stuff, which is much harder to play than the fast stuff in my humble opinion. Good tone is the key, and that can only come with a decent bow. Now, you can pay thousands for a good bow, but I think you can get a pretty good one for a couple hundred. I prefer horsehair to synthetics.

[Geoff]

Based on the reply above stating that with a fiddle, you are in charge of everything, it would seem to me that a good bow would be very important. I know that using rosin on your bow is important as well. What is the reason behind that? I'm imagining that it "stickies up" the hairs on the bow creating more friction, and thus more vibration when dragged across the strings. On a side note, I've just purchased a Kentucky KM-300e, so my fiddlin' aspirations might be on temporary standby.

[rhicksnm]

I've played the guitar for nearly 50 years, and picked up the mandolin as my primary instrument about 10 years ago. My wife gave me a fiddle about 4 years ago. I dearly love playing them all. The fiddle requires a lot of practice and concentration. The common tuning of the mando and fiddle make learning songs on one of them automatic on the other (almost). Fiddle lessons made me learn to read the treble clef, so I can now play treble clef on the mando as well.

The fiddle is loud, where the mando is not (compared to banjos and D-28s). It is extremely expressive, and that's where the practice comes in. I've really enjoyed learning the fiddle, though I'm still not real good on it. It makes you a better mando player, too.

[Cliff D]

Yep I hear what folk are saying, I think both the bows I have are horse hair, & I know they are inexpensive; but what no one has explained is a) how they judge a good bow & test them on purchase (& when mine were new they needed a lot of rosin, so evaluating an almost un-rosined bow seems a tad tricky, & b) what exactly would make a bow worth huge sums - vintage horse hair, only coming from pure bread arab stallions?

[JeffD]

Well it has been my experience that anything fiddle is expensive. Just like a mandolin usually costs about twice what a guitar of comparable quality would cost, a fiddle is twice again.

You guitaristas know what you can expect from a $1000 guitar. Pretty good, right?, probably not amazing, but pretty good to very good. Well that would correspond to a $2000 mandolin, roughly with all due respect for the exceptions. Well that would roughly correspond to a $4000 violin.

Again roughly, its what to expect, in the absence of knowledge of a specific outlier.

Well, again my experience, if you are playing that kind of violin, i.e. pretty good, maybe very good, but probably not amazing, the appropriate bow would run about $200, maybe a little more.

Roughly. Lots of exceptions, but what to expect in general.

A $50 bow, would go with a fiddle that cost about $1000.00, which would correspond in quality, roughly, to a $250 guitar or a $500 mandolin, i.e. entry level to perhaps a little better, but in time to be outgrown.


I don't want to argue the precision of the numbers, or that many of you know of a specific exception, but I think that if one views the situation from a thousand miles away, my numbers are not gigantically off.

[Randy Smith]

Happy? I'll bet you are! That's quite an "upgrade!"

That was in 2008 and I have not yet bought an instrument. The fiddle bug is still biting, I got a big check yesterday, and I think I will not deprive myself for very much longer.


Spend as much $ as you can on your bow. If you fiddle long enough, you'lll get the left hand. In fact, from what you've said, it sounds like you're already getting it now. But in fiddling, bowing is the whole deal. Once you've got a good bow, then upgrade fiddles however, whenever. For *now*, when you want to try to a different sounding fiddle, try a different string. But this week spend that check on a really good bow. And keep the fiddle bug!

[Flattpicker]

There's no hard, fast rule, but I would expect to use a 200 to $400 bow with a $1000 violin. A $50 bow is rock bottom. Many people charge more than that just to rehair a bow these days.

Geoff, with no rosin on the bow nothing happens. When a bow is rehaired you have to spend a good bit of time applying rosin to get your foundation. It is the rosin that grabs the string and makes the desired sound.

As with instruments, the cost has to do with materials and workmanship. For a handmade new bow expect to pay 2k to 5k, which is not bad considering the price of certain older bows, which run in the 5 and 6 figure realm. And you can find some new foreign-made decent bows for cheaper than the 2k-5k price. Lastly, there are carbon fiber bows, which usually perform well and are durable, but do not sound like wood.

[Jack Roberts]

This year is young, but already the fiddle playing time exceeds the mandolin playing time. The thing about the fiddle is that it is more puzzling than the mandolin... It takes more time and more practice to get a decent sound out of it. Not that I can do that yet. But exploring the fiddle has led to a lot of "aha!" moments on the mandolin. I can do things with the mandolin, especially playing double stops, that I couldn't do before the fiddle. Also, I have learned a lot of fiddle tunes that I can play more easily on the mandolin than the fiddle. Playing both is a good thing for me.

As for the bow. I have spent more money on bows than on fiddles, but I don't think spending a lot on the bow means you'll sound better. I have found that the pricing of bows is subjective, and mistakes are made. That means you can pay alot for a bow that isn't so good, and it is not impossible to find miracle deals if you pick through a lot that has just arrived at a violin shop.

The same can be said of used mandolins.

[Jack Roberts]

Y....what exactly would make a bow worth huge sums - vintage horse hair, only coming from pure bread arab stallions?

I think it's actually fresh white tail hairs from Mongolian stallions.

I spent a lot more time shopping for my third bow than I did for any guitar, mandolin, fiddle, car or house I've ever bought. And I got out paying less than I expected.

[JeffD]

There's no hard, fast rule, but I would expect to use a 200 to $400 bow with a $1000 violin. A $50 bow is rock bottom. Many people charge more than that just to rehair a bow these days.

.

There is truth to that.

[Eric Taylor]

I started playing violin in the 4th grade, and took private lessons til I was 20. I couldn't imagine going from a pick to a bow- I'm very glad I took up violin first.

[Cliff D]

Further to my posts about differences in bows I have just taken delivery of a better quality bow, & yes, it feels more "natural" in the hand & I don't seem to need to "fight" with it as much. there is a further matter someone may be able to assist with; I have emailed the supplier, but as yet, no response. There is silver wire binding next to the grip. Around that binding appears clear plastic tape. The question is, is that tape securing the binding, or is it just for protection during manufacture/shipping, & is it meant to be removed?

[Susan H.]

I started playing fiddle a few weeks ago. It's coming along. Better than I thought it would. My husband says some songs I play better than others. It's tough finding that G from time to time. But, I'm getting there. Mandolin will always be my first love though, I think. Much easier to play. Just pick and grin :grin:.

I am signed up for the afternoon fiddle class at Kaufman Kamp! Any other takers?

[Kirk Albrecht]

Bought a nice German violin about a year ago. It has mostly stayed in its case while I have played the mando, guitar, and (gasp!) a little banjo. Played it some, got some learning materials for it. Just haven't gotten to it yet. But it's a good student model that gives me room to grow when I do pick it up!

[Link]

Violin schmiolin.

Does viola count?

[Geoff]

Since I started this thread, I found out that my neighbor has a violin that she isn't using. As of now I have a violin on loan indefinitely. It seems to be a decent instrument, but you wouldn't tell that by the sounds I'm producing from it. :) Tried a few tunes on it Whiskey Before Breakfast and Old Grey Owl. The bow, as I expected, is a whole different world.

[zombywoof]

I played some fiddle before I ever even thought of touching a mandolin. Mostly did some blues sawing but I could play traditional stuff like "Red Haired Boy."

Probably the second tune I worked out on mandolin when first picking one up (the first being, what else but "Copperhead Road") was my favorite Texas waltz - "Midnight on the Water" which Jay Ungar showed me how to play.

I still keep a fiddle in an old mahogany coffin case around.