set up question

[mandomansuetude]

Hi ..Several months ago I had my Mando restrung and a set-up done for the first time......it was a great job and I was very pleased with the result...now my strings need changing .. If I'm real carefull not to move the bridge ...can I keep the same set up?...newbie puzzle....Wm.

[Lee Callicutt]

Just replace a single course of strings (of the same gauge) at a time and you should be fine, but for the long haul you shouldn't feel paralyzed about bridge adjustments to tweak the intonation.

[Ivan Kelsall]

As a safeguard against the bridge moving at all,tape a couple of small pieces of low-tack masking tape to the top of the Mandolin,one at either end of the bridge foot,& using a marker,just mark the bridge width on the tape front & back. If the bridge should move,then simply move it back to the marked positions.
If you replace each pair of strings at a time,tune them up to full pitch before removing & replacing the next pair. If you simply replace the strings & leave them 'slack',then when you come around to replacing the 4th pair of strings,the bridge could move because there's very little pressure on it. Even that's no big deal.Just move it back to the marked position & ensure that it's upright (not sloping to the back or front).
One thing that i've started to do,especially when removing the bridge altogether for a clean-up op.,is to place a small piece of Blu-Tak around eack thumbwheel,to make sure that the bridge height doesn't change.Those thumbwheels are usually pretty easy to move around when there's no bridge pressure,
Ivan~:>

[Rob Gerety]

Ultimately though, you want to learn to to place the bridge correctly and to adjust intonation with the bridge. It isn't really all that difficult. Good intonation makes a world of difference I think. All it takes is a tiny movement or tilt of the bridge one way or the other and the intonation will be affected.

[Malcolm G.]

Small question along the line of this post.

When checking intonation, I use harmonics at the 12th fret rather than actually fretting the strings.

I find there is quite a difference on my chromatic tuner between the two methods.

Is there a concensus as to which method is more accurate?

Thanks,

Mac

[Tim2723]

Yes, by all means learn to correctly locate your bridge. Do not fear your instrument. If you follow the basic instructions you will not hurt the mandolin. Locating the bridge is just part of mandolin ownership and basic maintenance, like changing strings. I found it was much easier to properly locate the bridge than to go through all the gyrations to keep it from moving, which didn't really work over the long haul anyway.

I have always used the twelfth fret, not the harmonic. I don't know if there's any concensus about it, but I figure I'm playing the fretted notes, so those need to be intonated correctly. The harmonic is a neat special effect, but 99.99999% of the time I'm playing the fretted notes. I've also always heard (though don't really know) that if the harmonic and the fretted note aren't the same, your bridge is out of adjustment. The harmonic sounds when your finger is at exactly the midpoint between the nut and bridge. That midpoint can be reached no matter where the bridge is, so it can have nothing to do with the relative position of the twelfth fret and the middle of the string.

If there's a significant difference between the harmonic and the fretted note, I think your bridge is mislocated.

[JeffD]

I find there is quite a difference on my chromatic tuner between the two methods.


I had always heard that the biridge is placed exactly right when the harmonic and the 12 fret are the same pitch.

Others please comment.

[AW Meyer]

You want the 12th fret harmonic to match the fretted note at the 12th fret.

[Malcolm G.]

I've tried to have the fretted note and the harmonic note be the same, but the string tension increases slightly when fretted and I find the note goes a bit sharp. I have my string height above the fretboard just a hair above buzz, so the pressure is as minimal as I can get it.
I'm goin' for a compromise - split the difference.
:)

Thanks all for your input!

[John Kasley]

You want the 12th fret harmonic to match the fretted note at the 12th fret.

Exactly right. See Frank Ford's article here.
http://www.frets.com/FRETSPages/Musician/Mandolin/MandoString/mandostring3.html

[Malcolm G.]

Gotcha! Great article!

Way better now!

Now I have to look after my archtop guitar, too.

Many thanks!

[Tim2723]

I've tried to have the fretted note and the harmonic note be the same, but the string tension increases slightly when fretted and I find the note goes a bit sharp. I have my string height above the fretboard just a hair above buzz, so the pressure is as minimal as I can get it.
I'm goin' for a compromise - split the difference.
:)

Thanks all for your input!

I would think that fretting the string would cause a tiny rise in pitch, but it should be so small that only a very sensitive tuner would detect it, if at all. If you can hear a noticable difference with your ear, then there's certainly a problem.

[Malcolm G.]

Yes Tim, there certainly was!

My bridge base has been moved forward by about 1/8" and it sounds so much sweeter in the upper closed chord formations, I just can't believe it.

Thank you all for my new mandolin!

[Richard Watts]

i have a question here--if you play the open string and then fret it at the 12th fret and they are the same note would that be close enough

[Fretbear]

i have a question here--if you play the open string and then fret it at the 12th fret and they are the same note would that be close enough

Yes; the twelfth fret note should be the same as the open string;
If it is not, apply the FLAT rule (Fretted (note) Low, Away (from) Tailpiece) This means that if the twelfth fret note is lower than the open string (or the harmonic, which is the same pitch) move the bridge towards the peghead, away from the tailpiece. If it is higher, move the bridge towards the tailpiece.

[Richard Watts]

thanks for that information i was sort of puzzled by the harmonic at the 12th fret i tried to do the (touch lightly) but could not get my tuner to display the note but then im no mandolin mechanic just a shadetree

[Tim2723]

I suspect that a tuner would need to be the kind with a very sensitive microphone built in to register the harmonic. My tuners that plug into the mandolin's pickup won't do it reliably, and I doubt the sort that clip onto the headstock would read it at all.

[Richard Watts]

you are right i used a sabine ST_1100 its has good sensitivity, a very good luthier once told me that if you get at least the Eand G string in then let the others fall where they may that i wouldnt be able to hear that small of difference anyway, sounded good to me i got the E A G never did get the D and from my understanding you need to be good to start filing on the nut or bridge I do appreciate the information

[Philphool]

I suspect that a tuner would need to be the kind with a very sensitive........ I doubt the sort that clip onto the headstock would read it at all.

Every clip on tuner that I have will easily pick up the 12th fret harmonic on my mandos. No problem.

[Tim2723]

Well, that's cool, Mine didn't. I suppose it has to do with how much energy gets transferred to the tuner's input. Sounds like one of those things that works sometimes.

[Douglas McMullin]

Neither one of my clip on tuners pickup harmonics well enough to adjust the bridge accurately. At least, that is the way it seems when I compare those results with those using my Sonic Research Turbo Tuner which is substantially more accurate.

[Jim Broyles]

Small question along the line of this post.

When checking intonation, I use harmonics at the 12th fret rather than actually fretting the strings.

I find there is quite a difference on my chromatic tuner between the two methods.

Is there a concensus as to which method is more accurate?

Thanks,

Mac

You have to play both the harmonic and the fretted note. Whether they match or not is the key to your intonation being accurate. If they are different according to your tuner, the bridge has to be moved. If the fretted note is sharp, you have to back the bridge toward the tailpiece a little. If it's flat you have to move it toward the headstock. Once you get one side done you have to do the other side. Usually, one can only intonate the G and E strings on a mandolin and hope for the best on the D and A strings. It isn't easy to keep the bass side in place while moving the treble side, so I use a white China marker - one of those grease pencil-like things where the "lead" is about 1/8" thick and you peel paper away to reveal more of it - to mark on the top where the bridge goes. The marks wipe right off with a soft cloth.